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Old 16th October 2008, 11:35   #1
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Default Ikon Engine Overheating and Damage

I am posting a query on behalf of my friend. He is having problems with his ikon. Here's his query


Quote:
I have a 2001 model ford ikon 1.6.

Recently it's getting overheated and stops when its driven continuously for around 15 kms. I had got it checked at one of the ford authorized service centers. They told me that the engine-head has melted a bit and a replacement would cost around 35 K.

I have also heard that some of workshops have this facility where they machine the melted region to created a new face on the engine-head,at much lesser cost.

Can anyone tell me if this can be done at a workshop in Delhi?
Should he get this done from Ford or from another workshop? Also can this kind of damage be repaired completely or will this cause recurring problems?
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Old 16th October 2008, 13:41   #2
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Quote:
Recently it's getting overheated and stops when its driven continuously for around 15 kms.
Your friend is still driving it? I am pretty sure that a malfunctioning fan caused the overheating.

Quote:
Should he get this done from Ford or from another workshop?
Well, his car is 7 years old now and thus, market value would probably be a lac odd. I'd say choose a competent aftermarket workshop, get the repairs done and save some $$$. Ford authorised are generally very expensive.

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Also can this kind of damage be repaired completely or will this cause recurring problems?
Of course it can be repaired completely. How many kms on the meter?
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Old 16th October 2008, 13:53   #3
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I cant believe this 'engine head melting a bit' story. First make sure your radiator is fine, coolant is topped up, the fan is working properly & ensure the thermostat functions too.
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Old 16th October 2008, 14:00   #4
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Do not trust Ford, and especially if it is Harpreet Ford. Take him to a good local garage and get it worked upon. The engine melting thing might be all hogwash.
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Old 16th October 2008, 14:41   #5
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as the others said, find a competent non company mechanic and find out. look for bosch car service centers in delhi as well.

do all the checks mentioned by the others and have the water pump checked as well. it may require a change. costs around 2k.

i find the engine head theory hard to believe. it's more likely a blown head gasket which is causing loss of compression. you will certainly need to get it changed based on what you wrote. head gasket costs around 1600 + another 900 or so for head bolts.

dont wait - get it done ASAP. if needed get it towed to the service center you decide on taking it to.
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Old 16th October 2008, 14:44   #6
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Which workshop was it Zuch, it sounds very much like that one that used to be on Mathura Road? All their diagnosis ends up with the head being replaced!

It sounds like a malfunctioning fan to me but if he's been driving it around continuously, God knows what other damage it may have caused (including damage to the head).

Ask him to get a second opinion. Maybe he should take it to the cluster of mechanics in that market on the opposite side of Hyatt (Ring Road), what's it called? They fix pretty much all kinds of problems there.

Last edited by suman : 16th October 2008 at 14:48.
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Old 16th October 2008, 20:01   #7
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It is called the Paalika Palace.

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Maybe he should take it to the cluster of mechanics in that market on the opposite side of Hyatt (Ring Road), what's it called? They fix pretty much all kinds of problems there.
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Old 17th October 2008, 12:59   #8
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@ Zuch,

I have personally experienced something similar and by that experience let me share some info.


The "head melting" that they are talking about is better known as "head warp". As you have menitoned that you friend was driving the car even when he was aware that the car was overheating, there is a very great possibility that the head might have warped due to excessive heat.

What the mechs generally do in this case is that they shave off .25, .5 mm depending upon the damage caused to the head.

Once this is done the head is almost like new, however the compression will increase.

You need not necessarily get it done from the factory, however, when approching a local mech please make sure you have the head checked. If there is warpage and you go ahead and replace the head gasket, I can assure you the head gasket will blow again.

Cheers,
Shrey
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Old 18th October 2008, 15:29   #9
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Originally Posted by gd1418 View Post
It is called the Paalika Palace.
Its actually Palika Bhawan, that place is damn expensive, atleast for most things, till my Dad was there as a magistrate it was inexpensive for me but unfortunately he has got transferred to lajpat nagar.

Try EOK, opposite storm, Jamrudpur Market.
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Old 18th October 2008, 15:30   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssjr0498 View Post
@ Zuch,

I have personally experienced something similar and by that experience let me share some info.


The "head melting" that they are talking about is better known as "head warp". As you have menitoned that you friend was driving the car even when he was aware that the car was overheating, there is a very great possibility that the head might have warped due to excessive heat.

What the mechs generally do in this case is that they shave off .25, .5 mm depending upon the damage caused to the head.

Once this is done the head is almost like new, however the compression will increase.

You need not necessarily get it done from the factory, however, when approching a local mech please make sure you have the head checked. If there is warpage and you go ahead and replace the head gasket, I can assure you the head gasket will blow again.

Cheers,
Shrey
This is almost like getting a porting and polishing job done, but how does one lower the compression.
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Old 18th October 2008, 19:13   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abhik View Post
This is almost like getting a porting and polishing job done, but how does one lower the compression.
shaving off a bit of the head reduces the volume pf the space in the cylinder where the air/fuel mixture gets compressed, thus increasing the compression ratio. porting and polishing is a bit different.
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Old 18th October 2008, 19:47   #12
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Originally Posted by silver_shadow View Post
shaving off a bit of the head reduces the volume pf the space in the cylinder where the air/fuel mixture gets compressed, thus increasing the compression ratio. porting and polishing is a bit different.
I am a little confused about porting and polishing though but i know for sure that CR needs to be lower for best performance after porting and polishing.

But after shaving the head to get rid of the warped bit, CR is increased, how does one lower it down without changing pistons.
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Old 19th October 2008, 00:25   #13
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Thank you everyone for the replies. I had forwarded the thread to my friend and he is very thankful. I'll speak to him tomorrow and get an update from his side.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Of course it can be repaired completely. How many kms on the meter?
He bought it second hand and we suspect the meter was tampered with. So we can't tell the exact reading but I think it would be around a lac.

Quote:
Originally Posted by suman View Post
Which workshop was it Zuch, it sounds very much like that one that used to be on Mathura Road? All their diagnosis ends up with the head being replaced!
Absolutely spot on! He got it checked at South City Ford!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssjr0498 View Post
@ Zuch,
I have personally experienced something similar and by that experience let me share some info.

The "head melting" that they are talking about is better known as "head warp". As you have menitoned that you friend was driving the car even when he was aware that the car was overheating, there is a very great possibility that the head might have warped due to excessive heat.

What the mechs generally do in this case is that they shave off .25, .5 mm depending upon the damage caused to the head.

Once this is done the head is almost like new, however the compression will increase.

You need not necessarily get it done from the factory, however, when approching a local mech please make sure you have the head checked. If there is warpage and you go ahead and replace the head gasket, I can assure you the head gasket will blow again.

Cheers,
Shrey
Thanks but I have a few questions
  1. You've said that the compression will increase. So how will that affect the engine?
  2. Are you saying that even after repairs the problem will recur (assuming there is a head warp)?
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Old 19th October 2008, 00:41   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zuch View Post
Thank you everyone for the replies. I had forwarded the thread to my friend and he is very thankful. I'll speak to him tomorrow and get an update from his side.


He bought it second hand and we suspect the meter was tampered with. So we can't tell the exact reading but I think it would be around a lac.


Absolutely spot on! He got it checked at South City Ford!


Thanks but I have a few questions
  1. You've said that the compression will increase. So how will that affect the engine?
  2. Are you saying that even after repairs the problem will recur (assuming there is a head warp)?
This is a small thing that most head grinder ignore, atleast most that I met here in Guj and Raj. They just mill the head and resurface it. Big Mistake!!
First the wrapping should be straightened and corrected before machining it for a good surface.

So your query...
1. Compression will increase as the chamber will be smaller resulting in predetonation (matlab misfire karega)
Also cam timming (valve opening closing) will be disturbed (again as a result will misfire)

2. Ofcourse, read No.1 again

Last edited by SirAlec : 19th October 2008 at 00:42.
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Old 19th October 2008, 15:19   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirAlec View Post
This is a small thing that most head grinder ignore, atleast most that I met here in Guj and Raj. They just mill the head and resurface it. Big Mistake!!
First the wrapping should be straightened and corrected before machining it for a good surface.

So your query...
1. Compression will increase as the chamber will be smaller resulting in predetonation (matlab misfire karega)
Also cam timming (valve opening closing) will be disturbed (again as a result will misfire)

2. Ofcourse, read No.1 again
Which means unless a good job of it is done he should go ahead and buy a second-hand or a new head to get the car in proper running condition.

@Zuch i bet your friend must be wishing he had bought a Honda City, then he probably would have loved to get the head replaced with a B16A or something.

A little while back i had asked Harpreet Ford Vasant Kunj about the monetary damage i would have to incurr if my Ikon's head get damaged and they gave me an approx. quote of Rs.50000.
So i thought if incase (God Forbid) this happens to me, rather than paying Ford 50K i could head to a tuner get the head warp sorted out, get it ported and polished and maybe save some for an aftermarket high lift cam aswell.

BTW: Can someone please tell me if CR can be reduced without changing the pistons.

Last edited by abhik : 19th October 2008 at 15:26.
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