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Old 3rd April 2017, 23:51   #8146
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Unhappy Re: Honda Civic : Maintenance, Service Costs and Must dos

Hello everyone!

This is my first post in the Team BHP forums (amazing community btw!).

A few months ago I purchased a used 2007 Honda Civic that had close to 1L km on the odo from a local second hand dealership; you could say it was the first car I officially "owned" (used to haul around a handful of cars, but didn't really think about buying one as a mainstay till this point); it was a very impulsive purchase as I desperately, urgently needed a car for some work which I had at the time, and I thought got it at a relative bargain...

Here's where the story starts to go downhill.
A few weeks went by with the car; as I was extremely busy at the time I hardly had time to notice anything else, but once the rush subsided and and I was able to start using the car under normal conditions, I started to realize there were a myriad of issues with the car; the experience has since degraded into a nightmare of sorts with one problem cropping up after the other. The people at HASS weren't really helpful, and every single mechanic I've went to churned out his own essay full of colorful ideas and solutions (all of them eye-wateringly expensive, and some even bordering on hilarity). I've listed out a few of the issues below and hope the folks at the forum can help me out!

1. The biggest perceived problem so far. I picked up the first anomaly through the clutch action; depressing the clutch turned out to be a chore, and the car shudders like anything when I lift it up to the biting point. I realized the clutch may be nearing the end of its life (maybe the previous owner had a habit of riding the clutch...?). Further more, slotting into first while decelerating is very, very difficult and requires quite a bit of force to wrestle it into gear. Not only that, sometimes it refuses to slot into the reverse gear and I find myself having to push it into first and wait a while before yanking it into R and pulling out of the driveway.
I'm thinking of overhauling the clutch assembly with a Daikin-Exedy set I believe is used by these Civics, but I'm not sure what to do about the flywheel. Is it safe to skim the flywheel? Replacing the wheel is going to burn a whole in my budget and I'd much rather avoid unnecessary expenses on this... Also, what do I do about the master and slave cylinders? Could they be the reason behind the rock-stiff gearshift down to first (shifting into first from standstill is fine; it's only while driving do I really feel the heat), or is this problem caused by some sort of wear or fault with the synchro rings (which would be a much worse prospect, as it would mean ripping apart the transmission assembly, possibly?)?
HASS is blaring out an insane 30-50l (quoted by HASS officials of varying audacity) for the clutch overhaul, and I don't even want to ask them about the other issues I've faced. Can anyone suggest a good OEM parts distributor and mechanic for replacing the clutch assembly, and give me some advice on the clutch status?

2. Another major problem seems to be with the battery; owing to the poor state of the clutch, a few of my friends, and even I myself noticed a very serious issue with the battery to this day.
Occasionally, when the car stalls (having gotten used to the clutch this problem doesn't occur anymore as I micro-manage the biting point to stop the car from dying on me, but still a very serious issue nonetheless that pops up without warning), it fails to turn over. It definitely doesn't seem to be an issue with the starter as there is no clatter of the starter motor when I turn the key; there is simply silence, and no response, which may be a battery issue.
I cleaned up the terminals and wiped off the corrosion buildup after the problem recurred a couple of times, and the problem has subsided greatly since then; but still the issue pops up every now and then when I deliberately stall the engine to see if it pops up. What could be the solution to this? I've had trouble recreating the issue at the service center as the car acts all immaculate whenever the service advisers are keenly monitoring the car. It's only at the most critical traffic junctions the car refuses to start up.

3. Another critical issue that was bugging me for a long time;
After getting the car I sent it off to HASS for a major service (better be safe than sorry) that cost me close to 10k. The service list was illustrious, but I sadly couldn't inspect the status of the service owing to the frantic rush back then. The bill included the major oil changes, suspension tuneup, power steering tuneup and lubrication, filters replacement (air, fuel), throttle body cleaning, the airbag replacement mandated by the Takata recall (free of charge), and the likes of such.
Problem is, around a month later, while cruising along the expressway and slowing down to pull out into a slip road, the engine abruptly died on me; I didn't even realize it until I felt the steering had locked up. Immediately I fired up the engine again and continued on my way.
Over repeated commutes, I was able to replicate the issue on isolated areas; the engine would flutter out quietly as soon as I depressed the clutch. This was an alarming issue, as it could affect the safety of other road users, not to mention myself! I really wasn't sure what the source of the problem was, but it could have been anything, from the fuel pump, or the throttle body (which had been "completely cleaned" by HASS barely a week back). I took the car to a mechanic I knew (didn't want to go back to Honda as they'd simply charge a few grand on the bill without really caring much for the details) and told him to drive it around and see what the problem was about after explaining the situation to him.
Funny enough, he couldn't replicate the issue after driving it around for a few dozen kilometers. He sprayed some lubricant on the engine bay connection terminals, and told me to keep driving as the problem seemed temporary.
Alas, on my way back the problem repeated, and I took the car back to him and asked him to clean up the throttle body along with a few other things. The problem had disappeared since then, and I hope it doesn't happen again....

4. Whilst I was at the workshop with the mechanic, I happened to come across a LOT of black soot buildup inside the exhaust tailpipes; I was surprised, as the exhaust was clean when I'd bought the car. Upon having the workers rev the engine, I could visibly see faint traces of black smoke shooting out the exhaust. I was already distraught with the stalling issue, so I told them to do something about it, and they responded by replacing the spark plugs.
The problem didn't really get better post-replacement, but the car developed a nasty habit of thudding irregularly (very sparsely) at neutral. I noticed a few days after the replacement, as I was sitting on the idling car in the morning. Almost like arrhythmia... is this a serious issue? What damage could a faulty spark plug install do to the engine...?
And what about the black soot and light black smoke? I don't suspect the filters as they were replaced only a short while back. Could there be an issue with the fuel injector or something?

5. The aforementioned stalling issue led to the development of another recurring nuisance; one night while returning from work, upon slowing down to cope with the buildup of traffic, the engine decided to go AWOL again. Naturally the power steering locked up, but as there was another car right in front of me (and I was barreling towards him with the engine dead), I yanked the steering wheel to one side to steer clear of him as I turned the engine over with the other free hand.
When the car came back to life, I immediately realized something was off with the steering--it had become slightly heavier--but figured it must be my imagination, and continued on.
A few weeks on, and now it's evidently clear the steering wheel had become much harder to turn than before. I understand an issue with the steering rack or power steering is going to be a major investment. I've checked my fluid levels and they are fine... what could be the culprit behind this, and is this going to cost me a fortune?

6. It rained a few weeks ago. Heavily. I got in my car that morning like everyone else, and incidentally raised my hand and ran it through the roof lining on my driver's side A pillar.
To my horror, water had seeped into the fabric; and it was spreading with the falling rain. It took quite a while to dry off after the weather cleared... How do I rectify this one?

Those are just some of the issues I am explicitly concerned about, at least with the internals of the car. Not to mention the neighborhood dogs dancing atop my car every evening (Just mine; I guess the low hood and swept back silhouette makes it a canine favorite to climb onto) and slowly turning my Civic into a mobile abstract art exhibition (the paintwork costs alone are giving me headaches); the condensation on my headlamps; the mysterious failure of my windshield washer nozzles(one stopped altogether while the other one was gnawed on--now it shoots water away from the windshield and into the asphalt!), the rather unpleasant smell emanating from the cabin through the old fabric, and other such oddities...

I frankly don't know what I did to deserve this, considering I take care of my cars as best I can and have never had such an appalling experience prior to this Civic!

Apologies for dragging out the essay into a spewing off complaints, but I'm seriously disturbed by this current crisis with this automobile and am desperately looking for constructive help from this cabin. Having finally found some free time, I'm looking to resolve most of the major issues before mid-April...

Please help!
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Old 4th April 2017, 11:32   #8147
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Default Re: Honda Civic : Maintenance, Service Costs and Must dos

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Originally Posted by pearce634 View Post
1. The biggest perceived problem so far. I picked up the first anomaly through the clutch action; depressing the clutch turned out to be a chore, and the car shudders like anything when I lift it up to the biting point.

I'm thinking of overhauling the clutch assembly with a Daikin-Exedy set I believe is used by these Civics, but I'm not sure what to do about the flywheel. Is it safe to skim the flywheel? Replacing the wheel is going to burn a whole in my budget

Before going in for a clutch overhaul i would suggest first checking the clutch master and slave cylinder. Ascertain these are ok and then go in for a clutch change. Check the clutch fluid level and see if it's low. It might be the cylinders rather than clutch however that being said close to 1lac km the clutch might need a overhaul. It should cost not more than 6k online.

https://spareshub.com/car-brands/hon...o-product.html

My car's flywheel was skimmed and i am running same for more than 30k kms now and there is no issue on that. You need not change the flywheel at all.

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Originally Posted by pearce634 View Post
2. Another major problem seems to be with the battery; owing to the poor state of the clutch, a few of my friends, and even I myself noticed a very serious issue with the battery to this day.
Get the battery checked out and see if needs replacing. Amaron would cost around 4-to5.5k max.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pearce634 View Post

3.
Problem is, around a month later, while cruising along the expressway and slowing down to pull out into a slip road, the engine abruptly died on me; I didn't even realize it until I felt the steering had locked up. Immediately I fired up the engine again and continued on my way.
In your service bill check if anything such as HDS is mentioned. Honda diagnostic scanning should be done to correct the idle rpm. Does the tacho needle jump about or twitch while in traffic. You may need to go to Honda for this and get the idle rpm corrected. Ask them to do a ECU reset and scan for idle rpm. Also have them scanned for engine misfires. There are several types of scanning. Eg scanning for idle rpm, engine misfires, air bags etc. If the throttle body cleaning is done then the stalling issue should go. However if the ignition coils are gone then these are expensive to replace.
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Originally Posted by pearce634 View Post

4. Whilst I was at the workshop with the mechanic, I happened to come across a LOT of black soot buildup inside the exhaust tailpipes; I was surprised, as the exhaust was clean when I'd bought the car. Upon having the workers rev the engine, I could visibly see faint traces of black smoke shooting out the exhaust. I was already distraught with the stalling issue, so I told them to do something about it, and they responded by replacing the spark plugs.
Post 1 lac kms as per service interval Civic would need a new set of spark plugs. Not sure about the soot in the exhaust. It would happen in my 800 due to the engine running rich and would need a tune up.

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Originally Posted by pearce634 View Post

5. The aforementioned stalling issue led to the development of another recurring nuisance; one night while returning from work, upon slowing down to cope with the buildup of traffic, the engine decided to go AWOL again. ...
A few weeks on, and now it's evidently clear the steering wheel had become much harder to turn than before. I understand an issue with the steering rack or power steering is going to be a major investment. I've checked my fluid levels and they are fine... what could be the culprit behind this, and is this going to cost me a fortune?
This is how a PS steering leakage would look like. It would cost max 6 k to fix at a good garage.

Honda Civic : Maintenance, Service Costs and Must dos-ps_leak.jpg

Source:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-t...ml#post3859032 (My Grey Shark: Honda Civic V-MT. 142,500 kms crunched. EDIT: Sold!)

This is how a rack leakage would look like (click link). It would again cost max 5 to 6k to fix from local garage.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-t...ml#post3882205

All in all if the car was bought from a dealer with 1 lac km i hate to say it to you but the odo might have been tampered as most dealers do to maximize the profit. Car may have done more than 1 lac as well so do get the old service history from Honda and see when the last service prior to your recent service was done on the car.

Good luck.

Last edited by sumeethaldankar : 4th April 2017 at 11:38.
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Old 4th April 2017, 12:27   #8148
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Default Re: Honda Civic : Maintenance, Service Costs and Must dos

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4. Whilst I was at the workshop with the mechanic, I happened to come across a LOT of black soot buildup inside the exhaust tailpipes; I was surprised, as the exhaust was clean when I'd bought the car. Upon having the workers rev the engine, I could visibly see faint traces of black smoke shooting out the exhaust. I was already distraught with the stalling issue, so I told them to do something about it, and they responded by replacing the spark plugs.
Can this be oil leak inside engine block due to broken engine oil seals? This can result in black smoke from exhaust.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pearce634 View Post
6. It rained a few weeks ago. Heavily. I got in my car that morning like everyone else, and incidentally raised my hand and ran it through the roof lining on my driver's side A pillar.
To my horror, water had seeped into the fabric; and it was spreading with the falling rain. It took quite a while to dry off after the weather cleared... How do I rectify this one?
You can fix this yourself. Most common reason of leakage is cracks in joints area shown below. Just remove the black strip and use appropriate sealant to close cracks if any.

Honda Civic : Maintenance, Service Costs and Must dos-20170404-12_13_39program-manager.png

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Originally Posted by pearce634 View Post
the mysterious failure of my windshield washer nozzles(one stopped altogether while the other one was gnawed on--now it shoots water away from the windshield and into the asphalt!),
I assume you /HASS have already tried cleaning windshield washer nossle from top end (using niddle, etc.). In this case I would recommend cleaning nozzle from bottom side using a niddle. For this you will have to remove black plastic strip (in which nozzle in fitted) just by removing few clips. Then just disconnect water pipes and clean nozzle from bottom side. I was also facing same issue and HASS recommended replacing nozzle, but they were not in stock. But this DIY workaround worked. Also water spray direction can be easily adjusted by moving spray hole in nozzle up/down/sideways (you can use a small screw driver / clip for same)

Honda Civic : Maintenance, Service Costs and Must dos-20170404-12_11_04program-manager.png
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Old 4th April 2017, 13:34   #8149
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Default Re: Honda Civic : Maintenance, Service Costs and Must dos

The locking mechanism on the lid of my centre armrest/cubbyhole has broken and as a result, it opens up each time I drive over a minor bump. (The spring that opens the lid still works).

Have any of you gotten this fixed inexpensively in Bangalore? I am guessing HASS would charge a bomb.

Any leads would be much appreciated.
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Old 4th April 2017, 13:36   #8150
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Default Re: Honda Civic : Maintenance, Service Costs and Must dos

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The locking mechanism on the lid of my centre armrest/cubbyhole has broken and as a result, it opens up each time I drive over a minor bump. (The spring that opens the lid still works).

Have any of you gotten this fixed inexpensively in Bangalore? I am guessing HASS would charge a bomb.

Any leads would be much appreciated.


The plastic latch of armrest is around 175 rupees at HASS.

Regards
Kunal

Last edited by kunal_kaushal : 4th April 2017 at 13:40. Reason: Added the video.
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Old 4th April 2017, 13:44   #8151
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Right,

Thanks for the help guys. I'll look into the suggestions and keep this thread updated with the progress.
A few more things though;

1. Can anyone suggest a good mechanic in Delhi who can take care of the repair work with high standards and reasonable prices?

2. I failed to mention this before--during cold starts in the summer, a loud, brief, hissing sound accompanies the start of the engine; it's not pleasant, I have to say, but after driving around for a while (that is, after the engine has sufficiently warmed up), the hissing sound disappears, even when I restart the engine multiple times. What could be the source of this issue, and should I be worried about it?

3. Can someone give me tentative costs of the following jobs;
a. Clutch master and slave cylinder replacement,
b. Spark plugs replacement (which to use for Honda Civic? When I got them replaced I paid around Rs. 80 for one spark plug; if need me I am ready to upgrade to better components....)

Thanks all!
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Old 4th April 2017, 13:55   #8152
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Default Re: Honda Civic : Maintenance, Service Costs and Must dos

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Right,

Thanks for the help guys. I'll look into the suggestions and keep this thread updated with the progress.
A few more things though;

1. Can anyone suggest a good mechanic in Delhi who can take care of the repair work with high standards and reasonable prices?

2. I failed to mention this before--during cold starts in the summer, a loud, brief, hissing sound accompanies the start of the engine; it's not pleasant, I have to say, but after driving around for a while (that is, after the engine has sufficiently warmed up), the hissing sound disappears, even when I restart the engine multiple times. What could be the source of this issue, and should I be worried about it?

3. Can someone give me tentative costs of the following jobs;
a. Clutch master and slave cylinder replacement,
b. Spark plugs replacement (which to use for Honda Civic? When I got them replaced I paid around Rs. 80 for one spark plug; if need me I am ready to upgrade to better components....)

Thanks all!
The spark plugs in civic are iridium spark plugs which cost around INR 500-750/piece in local spare shops ( INR 1197/ piece at HASS) as opposed to INR 80/piece for normal spark plugs.

Regards
Kunal

Last edited by kunal_kaushal : 4th April 2017 at 14:16. Reason: Added some more relevant data.
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Old 4th April 2017, 14:02   #8153
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Default Re: Honda Civic : Maintenance, Service Costs and Must dos

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a. Clutch master and slave cylinder replacement,
b. Spark plugs replacement (which to use for Honda Civic? When I got them replaced I paid around Rs. 80 for one spark plug; if need me I am ready to upgrade to better components....)
Thanks all!
Aftermarket clutch master + slave cylinders would cost around 3.5 - 4k (labour + oil extra). And OEM master cylinder cost is 6k, and 3k for slave one (Nikkin brand). Considering age of your car, it would be better to change both at same time. If one cylinder have failed, then other would follow soon.

If you are planning to own car for long term, then it would be wise to go for OEM spark plugs, they cost around 4k for set of 4 plugs. Same should be available at cheaper rate outside, but I would recommend to go with some good quality plugs.
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Old 4th April 2017, 14:13   #8154
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Aftermarket clutch master + slave cylinders would cost around 3.5 - 4k (labour + oil extra). And OEM master cylinder cost is 6k, and 3k for slave one (Nikkin brand). Considering age of your car, it would be better to change both at same time. If one cylinder have failed, then other would follow soon.

If you are planning to own car for long term, then it would be wise to go for OEM spark plugs, they cost around 4k for set of 4 plugs. Same should be available at cheaper rate outside, but I would recommend to go with some good quality plugs.
Thanks.

Speaking of the clutch, between Valeo and Daikin-Exedy, which would you recommend? I understand there are three components to a clutch assembly; the clutch plate, the pressure plate, and the release bearing. I would have to replace all three, but I don't see the release bearing mentioned in the spareshub link;

https://spareshub.com/car-brands/hon...o-product.html

Can you clarify?
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Old 4th April 2017, 14:16   #8155
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Can this be oil leak inside engine block due to broken engine oil seals? This can result in black smoke from exhaust.



You can fix this yourself. Most common reason of leakage is cracks in joints area shown below. Just remove the black strip and use appropriate sealant to close cracks if any.

Attachment 1626238



I assume you /HASS have already tried cleaning windshield washer nossle from top end (using niddle, etc.). In this case I would recommend cleaning nozzle from bottom side using a niddle. For this you will have to remove black plastic strip (in which nozzle in fitted) just by removing few clips. Then just disconnect water pipes and clean nozzle from bottom side. I was also facing same issue and HASS recommended replacing nozzle, but they were not in stock. But this DIY workaround worked. Also water spray direction can be easily adjusted by moving spray hole in nozzle up/down/sideways (you can use a small screw driver / clip for same)

Attachment 1626237
Can you provide me with more details such as the proper sealant and application method?

I will look into both the nozzle and the leakage and see what I can do.
Thanks!
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Old 4th April 2017, 14:29   #8156
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Default Re: Honda Civic : Maintenance, Service Costs and Must dos

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Speaking of the clutch, between Valeo and Daikin-Exedy, which would you recommend? I understand there are three components to a clutch assembly; the clutch plate, the pressure plate, and the release bearing. I would have to replace all three, but I don't see the release bearing mentioned in the spareshub link;

https://spareshub.com/car-brands/hon...o-product.html

Can you clarify?
My knowledge about aftermarket clutch brands is limited, but yes it would be wise to change clutch plate, pressure plate and release bearing at same time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pearce634 View Post
Can you provide me with more details such as the proper sealant and application method?

I will look into both the nozzle and the leakage and see what I can do.
Thanks!
I used Araldite to fill up cracks, you can procure it from any local hardware shop. Application process is simple, mix up Araldite solution, apply in cracks to be sealed and let it dry for 6-8 hours. Re-fit black roof molding strip only after solution is completely dry, otherwise glue will stick the roof molding permanently to the body.
You can also use "Araldite Quick" epoxy glue, which dries faster than regular Araldite.

Procedure for removing roof molding can be found here- http://civic.hondafitjazz.com/A00/HT...601KBAT00.html (open this in IE / Chrome)

Last edited by techcoze : 4th April 2017 at 14:34.
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Old 4th April 2017, 14:38   #8157
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You can also use "Araldite Quick" epoxy glue, which dries faster than regular Araldite.
Just a humble suggestion, wouldn't silicone sealants be more appropriate rather than Araldite for fixing these ?

Regards
Kunal
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Old 4th April 2017, 14:56   #8158
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Just a humble suggestion, wouldn't silicone sealants be more appropriate rather than Araldite for fixing these ?

Regards
Kunal

Yes, silicone sealant would also work in this case. You are right, Araldite is epoxy glue, it's not marketed as a sealant. But for permanently sealing "hairline cracks", as in this case, I generally prefer using Araldite. I use same method for household repair like water leakage through small cracks on kitchen platform, bathroom tiles, etc.
Personally I prefer Araldite in such situations because it dries up slowly, allowing it to flow & settle evenly deep inside cracks before it dried up, resulting in better & deeper sealing. Silicone sealant might not go such deep inside cracks unless we apply pressure from outside on sealant.

But yes, Araldite has to be handled carefully, it's mis-application is not as forgiving as silicone sealant.

Last edited by techcoze : 4th April 2017 at 15:04.
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Old 4th April 2017, 15:35   #8159
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4. they responded by replacing the spark plugs. Could there be an issue with the fuel injector or something ?
Do you have the make / model of the plugs they put in ? Civic uses NGK Iridium plus. Also for the ignition coils , a civic owner on the forum got them from aliexpress for much less. See this thread (Frankmehta's Practical Workhorse: Honda Civic AT CNG. EDIT: Sold!).
Black smoke may be a result of carbon build up, you could get the de-carbonizing done to see if it makes a diffrence. Most 3M outlets do it. There is a thread elsewhere on the forum where some have got good results from it while others think it's a sham. Read around a bit.
As for sputtering, Do get your MAF sensor checked (mass air flow sensor). I had cleaned mine a year ago, CRC makes a spray for this. If used in very dusty conditions / filter not being changed on time it tends to get covered with dirt. [/quote]
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Old 4th April 2017, 20:18   #8160
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Has anyone ever had this weather strip replaced or tried sourcing one ?
It starts all the way from the C pillar and ends at the base of the A pillar.
On my ride the rubber on either side of the glass has aged and is giving away. No leakages as of now, but since I plan to keep the car for at least another 3 years I would like to have new weatherstrips in place.
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