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Old 18th November 2008, 13:16   #16
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Oouch that looks bad. Glad that nothing serious happened.
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Originally Posted by bglsrini View Post
He said I was lucky that because of the BULL i was saved.If not any other car would have rammed the median and would have made 2 to 3 rolls.

Then came the fear element inside me.I am really happy that i went for the BULL.
Thats some bull crap given to you by the TATA engineer. How many such incidents has been brought to notice here on tbhp or any other forum for that matter?
A nice way to provide assurance to you and to help you stay calm so that you don't vent your frustration at him.

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I really dont know....but this is some serious defect.I want TATA to look into it
Look at it this way and take those fellas to task. Ain't your Dicor pretty new ?
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Old 18th November 2008, 13:30   #17
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Originally Posted by rjstyles69 View Post
Ain't your Dicor pretty new ?
It's a 2.2 rjstyles. Has to be quite new.
Taking this away from the earlier thread into a new one is only defeating the purpose of that thread to collate all information at one place.
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Old 18th November 2008, 13:30   #18
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
The tires are bridgestone in most cases, and blowouts can happen on any brand...
I was not refering to the brand of the tyre, but rather the minimum strength of any tyre any make that would be needed for a Safari. I am sure they would be able to handle few hard hits.

And just realized that Srini also never mentioned about going over anything; if indeed an object was there that the vehicle went over, it would atleast have a small jump when the tyre went over it. He just said there was a 'thud' sound and he went down, so no sudden up movement.

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
...This can be a case of arm breakage too, but I can't understand how did the tire come off the rim.
This usually happens in case of an impact. Sometimes a previous hit has made the sidewall weak, and even a minor impact can cause tire breakage....
Possible about the tyre being weak, but think of the scenario that I had mentioned where the tyre gets dragged sidways. Now would that not cause enough strain on the tyre that it gets popped? I think so.

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
...I guess we will have to wait on Tata for the cause. If its not an impact issue, then Tata will have to foot the bill for this as well as all related repairs
But all these are speculations. Let us see what the Srini's take and also what the TATA guys are saying about this. And I do hope they foot that bill!
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Old 18th November 2008, 13:34   #19
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Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
...Taking this away from the earlier thread into a new one is only defeating the purpose of that thread to collate all information at one place.
Anup,

Keeping these discussion in the earlier thread would have made that thread filled with these discussion, there by diluting it.

Once Srini has got it sorted, he can always make a single post there, with the issue and resolution.

Don't you think that would be better?
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Old 18th November 2008, 13:39   #20
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Maan this is serious - It could've resulted in loss of life or injury!

I wonder if the tyres came off because of a puncture as speculated, or from the force of a free wheel supporting 2 tonnes once the bolts broke off.

Srini mentioned that he had to leave immediately afterwards - I wonder if he was able to check for any punctures/tyre failures and rule that out.
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Old 18th November 2008, 13:42   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
I wonder if the tyres came off because of a puncture as speculated, or from the force of a free wheel supporting 2 tonnes once the bolts broke off.
Seems to be more of a case of the latter. If the wheel gets loaded with the weight of the vehicle due to suspension failure the chances of the tyre coming off the rim are quite high.
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Old 18th November 2008, 13:49   #22
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Incorrectly tensioned bolts can shear, particularly if undertensioned.
Forces (specifically dynamic and impact forces) that strength members are supposed to bear would, because of undertensioning, have to be borne by the bolts (fasteners). Most of the fasteners are not designed to take such loading.
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Old 18th November 2008, 13:50   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iraghava View Post
Seems to be more of a case of the latter. If the wheel gets loaded with the weight of the vehicle due to suspension failure the chances of the tyre coming off the rim are quite high.
Ishaan that's a valid point my friend. In case of a puncture unless the vehicle is overloaded, its seldom that we see the tyre coming off the rims.

With only Srini driving the Dicor I don't think it was overloaded, rather a classic case of suspension failure.

With 4 people in the car and a boot fulla luggage when we hit a stone during my last trip, the rear tyre never came off the rim. Also I ended up with bent strut (which was replaced) and still the tyre never came off.

My take : Classic case of suspension failure. Srini I dont intend to rub salt into your wound , but then I think you should try and get a valid explanation from TATA on this atleast.
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Old 18th November 2008, 14:03   #24
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Oh my god thats a scary picture, lucky that you escaped unhurt as rjstlye96 has said you have to push TATA to give an answer to such a failure.
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Old 18th November 2008, 14:06   #25
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This is purely a suspension failure. No hit on the tyre however strong can cause this.
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Old 18th November 2008, 14:12   #26
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looks like bgl has tubeless tires, not sure though. the question is, do tubeless ones burst like the tubed ones, if at all it was a case of the tire bursting. even if it burst for some reason, the vehicle would have pulled towards the median, the vehicle being so close to the median and still parallel to it certainly should be considered.

my guess is that the rim became loose from the arm somehow and dragged sideways resulting in the tire being pulled off the rim, at the same time maybe it averted the sideways pull that is caused by a blown tire normally. this might be something akin to the ball joint break problem of the bolero.

bgl, stop prerana from touching your vehicle at all at the workshop till you are back.
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Old 18th November 2008, 14:20   #27
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Man, that's scary! Thank God you're safe. I would really like to know the final diagnosis on this one. I know I'm likely to be flamed but this is why I'm a little rigid & old fashioned in these matters - OEM stock alloys & suchlike for me.

You never know how the dynamics can get affected in a behemoth when you put in major oversizes & have the wheels sticking out of the well etc.

Having said that, it could be as simple as the entire thing having given way because of a sudden puncture (are those tubed tyres Srini?) & subsequent possibilities highlighted by Dadu

Quote:
Originally Posted by rjstyles69 View Post
Classic case of suspension failure. Srini I dont intend to rub salt into your wound , but then I think you should try and get a valid explanation from TATA on this atleast.
And I wouldn't be surprised if they refuse to give any explanation & blame it on non-stock alloys & rubber

Last edited by suman : 18th November 2008 at 14:28.
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Old 18th November 2008, 14:22   #28
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I might get lynched here but here goes .
Were these aftermarket alloys the same spec as stock. If not TATA is well within their rights to refuse warranty for suspension failure.

Vijay
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Old 18th November 2008, 14:31   #29
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The front stabilizer bar seems to be intact. The tie rod/ends seem to be bent from the impact. Knuckle top joint broken (perhaps from impact). Lower wishbone/upper arm seems to be bent from the impact as well; not broken. I haven't heard of ANY broken wishbones from a Safari till date. That thing weighs at least 9 Kgs+. Which is QUITE a lot, considering the fact that most cars with wishbones border below 6.

To isolate the matter, let's go over a few things.

a) Was the car serviced or taken to the service station anytime soon before this incident?
b) Did you check the torsion beam for the front right suspension?
c) I do not see the damper. Was it removed? Any chance that the damper was shot, or had been since a long time, and you hadn't noticed (happens to a lot of Safari owners; fouled dampers are difficult to isolate in a 2.2 tonne SUV, unless one's experienced)
d) No 4x4. Hm. Since it's a RWD Safari, I do not see any other possibilities/reasons for this incident.
e) Punctures at 80-100 Kmph can do this to a suspension. Had the puncture been at the rear, the damage wouldn't have been this colossal.
f) How old is the car?

Technically, each wheel/suspension can withstand upto 700 Kgs. As per manufacturer (Safari GVW - 2780, 4x4). As you can imagine, a puncture at 100 kays would put the weight threshold at the front end well beyond this limit; which is why rears hold up better. But that's only if the car's fully loaded...
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Old 18th November 2008, 14:34   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prabhuav View Post
I might get lynched here but here goes .
Were these aftermarket alloys the same spec as stock. If not TATA is well within their rights to refuse warranty for suspension failure.

OK, Vijay, I'll 'flame' you! I couldn't agree more!!

I cannot tell from the pics whether the wheels are stock size. Indeed, if they are not, Tata is likely to first blame it on the aftermarket fitments.
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