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Old 19th November 2008, 11:06   #61
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Is this what you are referring to, Suman?
I tend to think that there was some early warning which went unheeded.
Anup, you are right, it was an indication but I wasn't referring to just that bit - the stuff I was talking about was specifically about the tie-rod end bushes that Hrag was asking about.

It wouldn't be just over one drive - you'd feel it over a period of time & it wouldn't suddenly give way like that. What Srini felt (I think) was at the point when the suspension was on the verge of actually giving up.
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Old 19th November 2008, 11:29   #62
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It wouldn't be just over one drive - you'd feel it over a period of time & it wouldn't suddenly give way like that.
Quite. That is what I was trying to hint at here:
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Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
Incorrectly tensioned bolts can shear, particularly if undertensioned.
Forces (specifically dynamic and impact forces) that strength members are supposed to bear would, because of undertensioning, have to be borne by the bolts (fasteners). Most of the fasteners are not designed to take such loading.
jaysmokesleaces has a similar theory in his post .... ?
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Old 19th November 2008, 11:41   #63
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Quite. That is what I was trying to hint at here:

jaysmokesleaces has a similar theory in his post .... ?
Absolutely. You see, my point is - the suspension cannot suddenly give way one day because of a "quality" issue. To begin with, in my mind, a "quality issue" or a "defect" in the suspension cannot arise after the vehicle has done 35k kms.

There are regular service intervals & if the workshop is doing its work diligently, there are suspension checks to be carried out at these intervals & should anything be amiss, they are supposed to raise the flag. Depending on our daily use (& abuse), suspension components can get damaged - and if left unattended can cause serious issues. Now, if workshops are doing shoddy work & cutting corners, that's a problem.

It is difficult to lay down a norm as to how much a vehicle can run on a damaged component without it giving way completely. For example, I just replaced my upper arm bushes & tie rod ends at 45k kms - I was warned about it at 41k kms & took 4k kms for me to find the time to get it fixed. Wasn't surprised that they were damaged given the conditions of the roads on my daily route & my driving style. No alarming symptoms had developed but the heavy jerks on hitting big potholes & the steering slightly off-centre - yes, they were there.

If I kept pushing it for another 5k, who knows what may have happened? The workshop needs to be vigilant & we need to be aware of any changes that we may perceive in vehicle behavior.
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Old 19th November 2008, 12:13   #64
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Depending on our daily use (& abuse), suspension components can get damaged - and if left unattended can cause serious issues.
This is the biggest problem with the Safari - once you get used to its ability to tackle bad / horrible roads, you tend to overdo it knowingly or unknowingly.
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Old 19th November 2008, 13:15   #65
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There is a reason we spend money every few thousand kms on service.
The reason is that we expect the service center to give the vehicle a full checkup. A Stich in time saves nine.
If you open up your service book, it clearly mentions what should be checked at what service interval.
But sadly, most service centers(including others, not just TATA), think a service is oil/filter change followed by a wash.
With the coming of the ECU, things are worse.
Mechanics are starting to think that you connect computer to engine, and by some magic it will tell you all thats wrong with the vehicle.
But sadly thats not the case.
You need to take a TD. You need to listen to the machine.
Every slight change, every component on verge of failure gives warning(except electricals of course).
Suspension going bad shows up as frequent misalignment, brake shoes going bad show up as weird braking behavior.

But who checks that now. Your vehicle is ushred in a line, taken to oil change, and washed and delivered. This is the story at 90% of the service centers.

Since experts have ruled out blowout, this indeed seems a case where the service center did not do their job of checking the vehicle fully, and just thought a computer and oil change is the answer to everything
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Old 19th November 2008, 13:37   #66
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Your vehicle is ushred in a line, taken to oil change, and washed and delivered. This is the story at 90% of the service centers.
I'd give an arm & a leg to know the ten percent that are different!
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Old 19th November 2008, 13:40   #67
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Mechanics are starting to think that you connect computer to engine, and by some magic it will tell you all thats wrong with the vehicle.
This is what happened in my case - the dealer spent a month trying to sort out the problem by hooking the truck to the computer when there was clearly a mechanical noise which should have been easy to diagnose IF THEY HAD BOTHERED TO LISTEN TO THE BLOODY ENGINE.

Based on the feedback from the computer they proceeded to replace (under warranty, thankfully) various peripheral parts when there was no issue with them whatsoever. I wont complain about that because I wasnt in town and therefore didnt need the vehicle - I got various miscellaneous parts like a new EGR, new Common Rail nozzles and several other bits and pieces free of cost that werent really required to be changed.

All this till I wrote to TML and their reps got involved.
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Old 19th November 2008, 14:04   #68
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This is the biggest problem with the Safari - once you get used to its ability to tackle bad / horrible roads, you tend to overdo it knowingly or unknowingly.
Amen to that Hrishi..

The one thing that I tell my A.S.S guys at each service - Check every suspension component and replace anything suspicious - All I have had to change are a couple of bushes - so far
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Old 19th November 2008, 15:39   #69
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check your PM. this will enable you to screw these people if they dont co-operate.
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Old 19th November 2008, 16:08   #70
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...once you get used to its ability to tackle bad / horrible roads, you tend to overdo it knowingly or unknowingly.
True, but one would not expect this sort of failure in a 10 months old vehicle!

But then we also have people with older vehicle jumping around bad roads like Kangaroo's and still going strong!

And what TSK has mentioned is the ground truth that is pretty much seens at all service centers. Wash - top up - deliver!
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Old 19th November 2008, 16:14   #71
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True, but one would not expect this sort of failure in a 10 months old vehicle!
Yes, but don't forget the mileage covered - 35,000 kms; this is the time when suspension components would start showing signs of wear & tear. If not attended to in time, as I said earlier, you could have serious problems.

This is arising out of wear & tear, not really "failure"
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Old 19th November 2008, 16:16   #72
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One must realize that all the authorized service centers of ALL vehicle manufacturers in India consist of newly hired ITI trained freshers. Very few have good hands on experience. Furthur on, nowadays if there is a problem they mostly replace parts that they suspect rather than probe furthur to find out the root cause.
A scheduled service which specifies looking into specific parts does not get due attention.
Therefore it is essential that every once in a while one should(time permitting) take the car to the dealer to get just a suspension checkup or steering checkup or any other concern. Atleast thats what I do. Most people who drive suv's tend to ignore potholes and other undulations as part of their driving style which they wouldnt do with other cars. This is especially true for many who drive safaris.
One must not rely on the TASS to do a good joband sit back assuming everything is ok, especially with 15000km service intervals. That IS a VERY long time especially for indian road conditions. Vehicles in the West may get away with that.

Last edited by jaysmokesleaves : 19th November 2008 at 16:17.
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Old 19th November 2008, 16:18   #73
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exactly! this is a 10 month old vehicle which is supposed to go off roading. if this is the case, how will it survive bad terrains? i still feel it is a sad point of TATA, either quality of manufacturing or service.
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Old 19th November 2008, 16:25   #74
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Yes, but don't forget the mileage covered - 35,000 kms; ...This is arising out of wear & tear, not really "failure"
; missed this fact out. 35k is indeed a lot and will induce the wear and tear.

And these effects must have been caught before hand by the service agents during service times, but then, less said the better about it.
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Old 19th November 2008, 16:33   #75
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Originally Posted by HappyWheels View Post
True, but one would not expect this sort of failure in a 10 months old vehicle!

But then we also have people with older vehicle jumping around bad roads like Kangaroo's and still going strong!

And what TSK has mentioned is the ground truth that is pretty much seens at all service centers. Wash - top up - deliver!
Suresh, the calendar age of a vehicle is immaterial in this case - this is not rust or paint discolouration we're talking about. bglsrini has clocked~35K km in these 10 months. It is the distance that counts. Along with road conditions. And the use / abuse.

Let me rephrase - the Safari will take a lot in its stride. It is up to the owner to keep track of the slightest deviation in performance & behaviour and get faults rectified.

My service advisor at Concorde blasted me for not bringing the tyre wear to his notice earlier. I made an earlier trip to Chennai with the tyre wear and I couldn't find time to get it checked by him? He warned me of dire consequences if I didn't get the tie rod changed ASAP. A few good men still exist at service centres.

Let me also be very clear that I'm not blaming bglsrini for abusing his vehicle. We all tend to push the vehicle when we discover its capabilities.

There may have been some earlier indications of this. bglsrini (or anybody else in his place) may or may not have noticed these. All I'm saying is - keep tracking your vehicle's performance. And get the issue fixed / clarified if you notice something strange.

I repeat - it is very easy to get carried away with the Safari on bad roads.

Edit: the TASC (or any service centre) will only look at standard checks. Unless we tell them about strange behaviour, they will not ordinarily look into it.

Last edited by hrag : 19th November 2008 at 16:35.
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