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Old 22nd December 2008, 11:44   #16
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Lambda is necessary for RTO endorsement because emission is controlled due to it being a closed loop system . So in effect it is illegal to drive a car without lambda . TAP is needed for good engine performance especially in CNG because the octane value of cng is 110 as compared to 87 of normal petrol but the calorific value of cng is less than that of petrol this results in powerloss on cng which is overcome by making use of high octane rating of cng by advancing timing using TAP.
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Old 22nd December 2008, 12:15   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
We are using CNG in our Maruti 800 and I would like to put down some experience here.

The response definitely goes down. One has to adapt upto some extent. In case of Maruti 800, I feel that the after midrange the performance drops easily. Can handle city riding.

Swift is already not known for good bottom end torque. CNG will affect performance. Not by much as its now coming with ECU, but still there will be affect. In case of carb engines, there is chance of engine damage, but not in case with cars with those ECMs.
I think that try some other Swift fitted with CNG. I feel that the poor bottom end response will give some irritation to you.
Also sometime we have to fit in booster in the fuel line to improve response, if you are not satisfied with response.
Boot space will go away. Chech for suspension bottoming out or not. We had to install one more leaf spring at rear. This is not possible in case of Swift and the cylinder will itself weigh over 80 kgs.
aaggoswami, Do you have Lambda or TAP ... I guess it's not there. That's the main reason of not getting the petrol feel and low ends. Once proper tuning along with Lambda and TAP is there, you'll not have any low-mid range issues as stated.

However, for lifting i would suggest to install rubber lifters which are easily avilable with shocker fitters. May be the desi word for the same is "Rubber ka Gutka" It is not required but are recommended to get these lifters.
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Old 22nd December 2008, 12:25   #18
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I have driven a kitted 800 for 1 lac Kms. All I can say is that the driving style needs a lot of adjustment in an 800. Plus the car also had an AC so all the more reason to complaint. I also had to get one more leaf added and the routine problems of misfiring and engine shutting at low RPMs never ended.

But Swift is actually quite swift otherwise and the CNG experience is quite different on it.
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Old 22nd December 2008, 20:01   #19
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@ashthedivx

So I need to ask the dealer to install the TAP additionalyy since he's already said that they do the wiring in such a manner that the TAP isn'r required. Also is the 3-4k you said the additional cost of TAP.

@All
The dealer has quoted 2000 for the RC endorsement and 3500 for the insurance. Isn't that too much???
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Old 23rd December 2008, 11:29   #20
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Originally Posted by coolaxe View Post
@ashthedivx

So I need to ask the dealer to install the TAP additionalyy since he's already said that they do the wiring in such a manner that the TAP isn'r required. Also is the 3-4k you said the additional cost of TAP.

@All
The dealer has quoted 2000 for the RC endorsement and 3500 for the insurance. Isn't that too much???
Yes, you need to tell dealer to install TAP.

2000 Rs for RC is fine, but 3500 of insurance is outrageous. As a rule insurance charges is 2% of the Kit cost i.e. in case CNG kit costed around 40K to you, it should not cost you more then 800 Rs in any case. If dealer isn't accepting the same you can get in touch with insurance company directly. However, I would recommend and suggest not to skip insurance as insurance people are always on spree to reject the insurance claim

Cheers
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Old 23rd December 2008, 16:56   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashthedivx View Post
aaggoswami, Do you have Lambda or TAP ... I guess it's not there. That's the main reason of not getting the petrol feel and low ends. Once proper tuning along with Lambda and TAP is there, you'll not have any low-mid range issues as stated.

However, for lifting i would suggest to install rubber lifters which are easily avilable with shocker fitters. May be the desi word for the same is "Rubber ka Gutka" It is not required but are recommended to get these lifters.
Lambda. Now again due to poor presentation, my post gives different meaning than intended.
I meant that Maruti 800 engine is inherently good at bottom end, so we are not having response issues as far as bottom end is concerned, but as soon as we are in relatively high range, the performance drop is more and sometimes irritating. We have to then shift down. However, this is restricted to high range. Bottom end and mid range are not that bad affected.

In case of Swift, the engine is known for poor bottom end, even in Esteem. Swift is heavier than Esteem and if CNG is fitted in Swift, then there will be a problem of bottom end response as it will further drop for just acceptable levels that it has with petrol. And from mid range onwards, the Swift will be very good. So I dont personally recommend CNG in Swift.

About the suspension, due to very poor roads in our locality ( I am sure that even Hummer H1 will rattle after one year of normal driving ) and overall in Vadodara city, we opted out for fitting one more leaf spring. The handbrake is now useless, and the ride quality with 1 or two person onboard is really very bad. Worse than Omni and nears auto richshaw. With four persons the ride quality improves significantly. Some how I have observed that the handling is somewhat improved after the suspension modification with wider tyres.

One more thing that I forgot in my last post. When fitting in CNG in any small car, please see that after the installaton, the stand on which CNG cylinder is loaded has no sharp edges. If there are, then get them treated. While taking spare wheel out I had more than 6 cuts from the stand's sharp edges. Taking out the spare is also a pain in CNG fitted small cars. Make sure the sharp edges dont hurt you.

EDIT : What will installation of TAP cost ?

Last edited by aaggoswami : 23rd December 2008 at 17:02.
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Old 24th December 2008, 10:49   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
In case of Swift, the engine is known for poor bottom end, even in Esteem. Swift is heavier than Esteem and if CNG is fitted in Swift, then there will be a problem of bottom end response as it will further drop for just acceptable levels that it has with petrol. And from mid range onwards, the Swift will be very good. So I dont personally recommend CNG in Swift.

About the suspension, due to very poor roads in our locality ( I am sure that even Hummer H1 will rattle after one year of normal driving ) and overall in Vadodara city, we opted out for fitting one more leaf spring. The handbrake is now useless, and the ride quality with 1 or two person onboard is really very bad. Worse than Omni and nears auto richshaw. With four persons the ride quality improves significantly. Some how I have observed that the handling is somewhat improved after the suspension modification with wider tyres.

EDIT : What will installation of TAP cost ?
Esteems are known as one of the best vehicles to get CNG installed in. Reason being a capable & small engine, low cost of ownership, availability of boot space after cylinder installation and a 3 box car image. However, for improving the bottom end response one can go for TAP and get it atleast as similar as of petrol.

Regarding, your i would suggest to expermient with a removal of the extra fitted Leaf, get a the rubber lifter installed and install a bit wider and softwer tyres. I hope you'll get some extra comfort !!

TAP installation cost somewhere around 1500-2000 Rs in Delhi.
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Old 16th June 2009, 00:31   #23
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I know its useless contributing here in 6 months old thread, but couldn't resist sharing my experience here.
Using an SX4 and a Swift both running on CNG.

SX4 fitted with Lovato kit (12kg cylinder), complete with Lambda+TAP done 45k+.
Swift fitted with Tomasetto Achille (12kg cylinder) + TAP done 85k+
Both cars run as good as on petrol with ABSOLUTELY no pick up drop in any gear (be it initial pickup or top end).

There are hundreds of CNG fitters, who have mushroomed out in the market who doesn't even have the basic knowledge of fitting these kit and ultimately misguide people.
People get carried away with the attractive discounts and after getting their fingers burnt blames CNG kits for everything.

Idea is to get the kit installed from experienced and authorised fitters (not authorised service stations) with proper kits (read original and seal packed) and do assist your kit with Lambda/TAP etc. to make full use of your CNG Vehicle.
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Old 17th June 2009, 14:31   #24
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Hi ,
Can any of my friends here on team-bhp let me know of the good cng fitment centres in DELHI ( preferably near Rohini).
I have enquired about the Tomasetto Kit .. its around 30000 for 14 kg .. and the dealer says that installing lambda of the tomasetto brand will cost around 5000 more. Moreover , I was also told that TAP will not be needed in case I go with original Tomasetto LAMBDA , since it has got the TAP inbuilt.
Please let me know how much of the statement he made is true?

I have also read in the threads that more than the brand of the kit we should lay emphasis on getting the kit fitted by some one good.
But in case that professional has multiple brands available which one should I go for .. Landirenzo, Tomasetto etc.?
What about the cylinder which is fitted ? Are the cylinders also branded ..?Any particular brand I should go for .. standards I should look at ???

Waiting for the response from T-BHPians!!

T.I.A
Saurabh
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Old 18th June 2009, 13:48   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hbaruas View Post
Hi ,
Can any of my friends here on team-bhp let me know of the good cng fitment centres in DELHI ( preferably near Rohini).
I have enquired about the Tomasetto Kit .. its around 30000 for 14 kg .. and the dealer says that installing lambda of the tomasetto brand will cost around 5000 more. Moreover , I was also told that TAP will not be needed in case I go with original Tomasetto LAMBDA , since it has got the TAP inbuilt.
Please let me know how much of the statement he made is true?

I have also read in the threads that more than the brand of the kit we should lay emphasis on getting the kit fitted by some one good.
But in case that professional has multiple brands available which one should I go for .. Landirenzo, Tomasetto etc.?
What about the cylinder which is fitted ? Are the cylinders also branded ..?Any particular brand I should go for .. standards I should look at ???

Waiting for the response from T-BHPians!!

T.I.A
Saurabh

Well my friend, I would suggest to go for any reputed one and that too ask them if they can arrange a test drive of an equivalent car of yours or atleast speak to owners who got it installed from the installer.

I have a Bedini Kit and very much satisfied with the same. I would rate Shrimankar Autogas Services, Okhla as a professional in this field as they are doing this stuff from very early. I have reffered many friends and relatives to them, but haven't found anyone complaining about them till yet.

Do remember - Do not fall for an expense of 3-4k and get TAP and Lambda installed right away, else be prepared to curse yourself for converting to CNG.

Cheers
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Old 22nd June 2009, 19:39   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hbaruas View Post
Hi ,
Can any of my friends here on team-bhp let me know of the good cng fitment centres in DELHI ( preferably near Rohini).
I have enquired about the Tomasetto Kit .. its around 30000 for 14 kg .. and the dealer says that installing lambda of the tomasetto brand will cost around 5000 more. Moreover , I was also told that TAP will not be needed in case I go with original Tomasetto LAMBDA , since it has got the TAP inbuilt.
Please let me know how much of the statement he made is true?

I have also read in the threads that more than the brand of the kit we should lay emphasis on getting the kit fitted by some one good.
But in case that professional has multiple brands available which one should I go for .. Landirenzo, Tomasetto etc.?
What about the cylinder which is fitted ? Are the cylinders also branded ..?Any particular brand I should go for .. standards I should look at ???

Waiting for the response from T-BHPians!!

T.I.A
Saurabh
Saurabh, I doubt that LAMBDA has inbuilt TAP, even if it is there that would not be much of use. As inbuilt TAP can advance the timing upto 5deg. max and external TAP has got different ranges to suite your requirement, typically in the region of 25-35 deg. Which can considerablly affect the performance of the car. Moreover spending more amount only integrated unit also doesn't make sense as in case of damage both (Lambda and TAP) will be changed, which would not be the case of stand alone units.

As per kits, it depends that which car you have, there are various reputed importers/manufacturers of the CNG kits available in the market, but it all depends which particular kit is approved from RTO for a particular vehicle, that is case if you are going through proper legal channel (i.e. CNG endorsed on RC). Else it hardly makes any difference, though the fitment does matter a lot.

Cylinders are not branded, however they are approved by ARAI and other govt. agencies, make sure that you get a genuine bill for your purchase with complete kit and cylinder no. on it.

I put up in Rohini only, if you require the details of the fitment dealer do PM me, I'll promptly provide you with the same.
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Old 20th July 2009, 12:26   #27
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Could you pls. let me know the shop's address in Delhi from where your friend has got CNG kit installed in his Swift?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WanderNomad View Post
One of my friends has been driving a kitted Swift Vxi since quite sometime and is extremely satisfied. Even I have drived it and I must say the difference wasnt much. He hasnt got the lambda installed, only TAP.
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Old 20th July 2009, 12:34   #28
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Could you pls. tell me the address of the workshop from where you installed CNG kit in your swift?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo Head View Post
I know its useless contributing here in 6 months old thread, but couldn't resist sharing my experience here.
Using an SX4 and a Swift both running on CNG.

SX4 fitted with Lovato kit (12kg cylinder), complete with Lambda+TAP done 45k+.
Swift fitted with Tomasetto Achille (12kg cylinder) + TAP done 85k+
Both cars run as good as on petrol with ABSOLUTELY no pick up drop in any gear (be it initial pickup or top end).

There are hundreds of CNG fitters, who have mushroomed out in the market who doesn't even have the basic knowledge of fitting these kit and ultimately misguide people.
People get carried away with the attractive discounts and after getting their fingers burnt blames CNG kits for everything.

Idea is to get the kit installed from experienced and authorised fitters (not authorised service stations) with proper kits (read original and seal packed) and do assist your kit with Lambda/TAP etc. to make full use of your CNG Vehicle.
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