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Old 9th December 2008, 10:19   #16
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My biggest worry is that if I have to apply brakes at 100kmph in emergency, the vehicle may go sideways and then topple. Its scary!
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Old 9th December 2008, 10:21   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravi Kashyap View Post
Can one fit a larger pattern tyre at the rear to help traction? Is it a good idea to have front and rear tyres different.
Short answer: F1's can do it why not you? Unfortunately it is not as simple and F1's (or for that matter rally teams) have budget and testing opportunities to optimize.

Can be done but think that now you will have two set of tyres - front and rear. Only look at tyre that will offer you wider foot print not bigger (or smaller) diameter at the tread. Tyre rotation would be a issue as normally it is not recommended for radials to be rotated where their direction of rotation (clockwise or anti) changes. That is why even fatter wallet.

In this case rear lock up is due to excessive hydraulic pressure in the line vis the need. Getting proportioning valve properly st is really the answer. or always keeping back end under load. Let us wait for Tanveer to test this and report.

@tsk: test with load and report. awaiting eagerly.
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Old 9th December 2008, 11:09   #18
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Default Braking @ 140kph.

I have almost stood on the brakes @ 140kph while testing the braking potential of my Safari in the first month of ownership. The vehicle tracked straight, front wheels locked up and the rear started to step out of line at which time i released brake pressure slightly to release wheel lock and correct the tail form stepping out. All this is in few fractions of seconds.
Had a similar experience while on my Spiti trip, when I had to slam brakes at 100+kph on wet road near Ambala at night when the truck crashed into my left fender. BUt with the truck swerving too much in my direction and with the divider on the other side, my vehicle got hit. Vehicle responded similarly as above under braking though, but somehow did not step out of line, maybe due to lesser speed. (It should have though since the roads were wet)
I have not experienced what you say, but it does sound scary. I will try hard braking again for experiment and confirmation sake once again though.
cheers:

Last edited by jaysmokesleaves : 9th December 2008 at 11:11.
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Old 9th December 2008, 11:52   #19
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@Tanveer: Fishtailing at a speed as low as 70 is certainly an apprehension...you better write/talk to some higher official in TML in this regard and push him for an urgent fix. Also make him peeped through the countless posts on Safari niggles...I hope this will nudge sleeping TML! Your latest problem may turn out to be a risky affair..better get it fixed ASAP.

Cheers!!!
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Old 9th December 2008, 12:08   #20
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@jaysmokesleaves - In your case the fronts have locked up where as in Tanveer's case the fronts have not locked up. This leads to bigger fishtailing effect.
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Old 9th December 2008, 12:16   #21
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i never had a chace to brake hard in my scorpio 2.2 nor the safari 2.2, yes in the CRDe, i have done it a couple of times. the wheels do lock up on the concrete road but the car does not fishtail and it comes to halt in a straight line.
moreover, i would suggest you to take this issue seriously and get it rectified as soon as possible to your entire staisfaction. check even at higher speeds please, that is more than 70 kmph.
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Old 9th December 2008, 12:36   #22
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No offense to Safari owners but in my personal opinion - no matter how good a vehicle looks or how passionate we are about it, if it lacks in reliability, it is not worth a single penny.
It is really startling that even after 10 years from it's launch, Safari brings truck load of free defects for it's customer. Shame on you TML!

Cheers!!!

Last edited by deepgautam_qa : 9th December 2008 at 12:41.
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Old 9th December 2008, 13:07   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deepgautam_qa View Post
No offense to Safari owners but in my personal opinion - no matter how good a vehicle looks or how passionate we are about it, if it lacks in reliability, it is not worth a single penny.
It is really startling that even after 10 years from it's launch, Safari brings truck load of free defects for it's customer. Shame on you TML!

Cheers!!!
I completely agree with you. While my purchase was due to a lack of a suitable second option for the price, i have been lucky until now with no major issues to write home about. However, the small niggles and their frequency is quite irritating. Its not what is expected by a customer after paying 1 million rupees.

I dont think TML can ever improve at the rate they are going. New launches et al. There seems to be complete non existence of QC standards at TML.
Probably the 18+18 month extended warranty is what helped me decide, else I would have probably purchased an Innova, and dumped the 4x4 as part of my wishlist and dumped my desire to go places offroad as a consequence.
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Old 9th December 2008, 13:23   #24
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Last night I hit the brakes, again not hard slam, but more threshold kind of braking.. And I found the rear had the tendency to flick towards the left. slight opposite lock, helped a bit, but I am sure at higher speeds even that will be useful.
Today I will try to stand on the brakes. I hope the bridgestones don't give away. Will try on cold tires and on slightly dusty road so that I don't burn too much rubber.

Now if I compare this to the indica, the safari is indeed a much more dangerous vehicle.
I have slammed brakes in the indica at 120kmph on a good tarmac road. All 4 wheels locked up, and I skidded a good 20 meters before coming to a halt, and all around me was smoke from burning rubber.

But the skid was straight line, with no rear stepping out, and I did not even need to really hold the steering very hard.

In this service the valve was adjusted, and things have improved, but it seems its still not enough.
Some more testing is the need and I will try this circus today evening.
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Old 9th December 2008, 13:34   #25
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The thing with playing around with the proportioning valve is that its purely trial and error. Need to be careful with the setting.
Too much to the rear will induce fishtailing when you brake while cornering whereas too much to the front will decrease braking efficiency.
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Old 9th December 2008, 14:53   #26
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good to see someone taking it in a postive way.

@ tsk: you can compare an indica with the safari buddy. the mannerisms of a hatch and SUV will be different, the dynamics are altogether different. but i do agree that there should be no swaying.
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Old 9th December 2008, 17:15   #27
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sorry, in the above post, i meant you cant compare an indica...................
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Old 9th December 2008, 17:34   #28
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tsk1979 - the Safari will behave most predictably only when fully loaded. Under all other circumstances, as mentioned earlier, never turn the steering wheel under panic braking. The only exception is very slight opposite lock as you have tried. Also, some quick release and stomp on the brake pedal.

What are your tyre pressures? F 32 and R 35?

Edit: No, I didn't mean all Safaris will fishtail under emergency braking unless fully loaded. If you have driven a Safari extensively under different conditions, you will understand what I meant.

Last edited by hrag : 9th December 2008 at 17:54.
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Old 9th December 2008, 17:44   #29
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do you mean all safaris fishtail under emergency braking if it is not fully loaded?
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Old 9th December 2008, 19:22   #30
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If you have a fishtailing issue, then your problem is with th LSPV as many here have pointed out.

I've had the issue when the LSPV was not properly set, a slight tweak will make a world of difference. Nothing that calls for such bombastic titles like "Disaster By Design" - if this were indeed the case, I should be dead by now as I've been driving this thing for quite a whilenow. Personally I feel the title is irresponsible, particularly when it comes from a person whose words may be taken seriously by those who are not familiar with the board purely because of his position.

As for non-owners who are here purely to help out with mudslining, please buy another vehicle that does all that the Safari does, at the price (or double) of what it costs. We do have problems with our vehicles, I personally have suffered at the hands of my dealer recently.

What the Safari probably lacks is a yahoogroup or some such arrangement where problems are discussed amongst owners as is the case with several other vehicles. Visit the yahoogroups forums for all the other 'reliable' vehicles quoted whenever Safari issues crop up and you will find much more serious issues with transmission, engine, suspension and what not. Do take a look at those forums sometime - it will be an educating experience.

I own one of these vehicles for the last 3.5 years now, and I've had my share of niggles recently. However, all is forgiven and forgotten when the vehicle does Trivandrum - Cochin in 2.5 hours flat and then proceeds to hop over some rocks and wade through slush the next day in rural Palghat. Try that in any other vehicle this side of 20 lakhs, THEN talk.

Last edited by Steeroid : 9th December 2008 at 19:26.
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