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Old 9th December 2008, 19:31   #31
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Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
I've had the issue when the LSPV was not properly set, a slight tweak will make a world of difference. Nothing that calls for such bombastic titles like "Disaster By Design" - if this were indeed the case, I should be dead by now as I've been driving this thing for quite a whilenow. Personally I feel the title is irresponsible, particularly when it comes from a person whose words may be taken seriously by those who are not familiar with the board purely because of his position.

As for non-owners who are here purely to help out with mudslining, please buy another vehicle that does all that the Safari does, at the price (or double) of what it costs. We do have problems with our vehicles, I personally have suffered at the hands of my dealer recently.

What the Safari probably lacks is a yahoogroup or some such arrangement where problems are discussed amongst owners as is the case with several other vehicles. Visit the yahoogroups forums for all the other 'reliable' vehicles quoted whenever Safari issues crop up and you will find much more serious issues with transmission, engine, suspension and what not. Do take a look at those forums sometime - it will be an educating experience.

I own one of these vehicles for the last 3.5 years now, and I've had my share of niggles recently. However, all is forgiven and forgotten when the vehicle does Trivandrum - Cochin in 2.5 hours flat and then proceeds to hop over some rocks and wade through slush the next day in rural Palghat. Try that in any other vehicle this side of 20 lakhs, THEN talk.
there it goes, i was waiting to hear this! this is what we hear from a "distinguished bhpian".

chill buddy, nobody is against your safari, oh sorry, your bull (or was it beast?) here. infact i have written that this problem should be specific to tanveer's safari only.

still if you object, i had rather say please chill down! everybody on this forum has the right to post as you have. so its their decision whether they prefer T-BHP or yahoo groups!

Last edited by raj_5004 : 9th December 2008 at 19:39.
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Old 9th December 2008, 19:43   #32
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Originally Posted by nitrous View Post
Front-rear Brake bias setting is also a reason for rear fishtailing at high speed braking.


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Originally Posted by Rahulk76 View Post
Its mentioned in the mannual.

The valve is actually Load Sensing pressure valve. It regulates the pressure of brake fluid to the rear wheels as the load increases or decreases. ..

My suspect is that u should also get ur rear brakes adjusted apart from LSPV setting.
I agree 100%, get your rear brakes adjusted for travel too. Check the brake pads, springs etc and get the wheel cylinder seals checked and replaced if necessary!

Quote:
Originally Posted by nitrous View Post
The thing with playing around with the proportioning valve is that its purely trial and error. Need to be careful with the setting.
Too much to the rear will induce fishtailing when you brake while cornering whereas too much to the front will decrease braking efficiency.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
If you have a fishtailing issue, then your problem is with th LSPV as many here have pointed out.

I've had the issue when the LSPV was not properly set, a slight tweak will make a world of difference. Nothing that calls for such bombastic titles like "Disaster By Design" - if this were indeed the case, I should be dead by now...

...
in 2.5 hours flat and then proceeds to hop over some rocks and wade through slush the next day in rural Palghat. Try that in any other vehicle this side of 20 lakhs, THEN talk.
Ha ha Steeriod, you have a TS 4x4?

Guess the problem is in the wheel cylinder IMO and the LSPV. As many have pointed out, bleeding the system after a check at the above mentioned will bring her back to braking hard and straight!
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Old 9th December 2008, 21:44   #33
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Originally Posted by jaysmokesleaves View Post
I completely agree with you. While my purchase was due to a lack of a suitable second option for the price, i have been lucky until now with no major issues to write home about. However, the small niggles and their frequency is quite irritating. Its not what is expected by a customer after paying 1 million rupees.

I dont think TML can ever improve at the rate they are going. New launches et al. There seems to be complete non existence of QC standards at TML.
Probably the 18+18 month extended warranty is what helped me decide, else I would have probably purchased an Innova, and dumped the 4x4 as part of my wishlist and dumped my desire to go places offroad as a consequence.
This post was probably misread by someone as if I was talking about the Safari as a failure,etc. And as far as taking things positively go, buying a Safari was probably the most positive thing I did. I have enjoyed every bit of the ownership, including the small irritating niggles which I am not ashamed or talk about. In fact I am very glad that almost all Safari owners on this forum positively contribute information to enable better understanding of their vehicles.
Then there are those whose only motive seems to join a Safari discussion with nothing positive to contribute. They only make a post that indulges in sledging and mudslinging, unnecessary baseless comparisions,etc,etc causing the thread to temporarily drift from the topic.

Back to the point > Can someone post details on this PSV. Where it is positioned? Is it a DIY thing or do I have to go to the TASS ? What is the relation of the PSV to the rear brake settings, or does the PSV affect only rear brakes?
While we are at it, I remember, that when I had done my 15000kms service in Mandi, the technician there told me that there is some kind of dual circuit in the brakes, where if one circuit of the brakes fail, it does not lead to total brake failure. Can someone please shed some light on that?
Sorry but this is slightly OT.
cheers:
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Old 9th December 2008, 21:54   #34
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Can LPSV automatically creep back to wrong position?
Today I tried braking again, and the fishtail was more than before!

I think I need to mail somebody in Tata. Probably this is an issue with my vehicle only, and not with all safari's
If so this will be second major issue. First one was 4x4 not engaging due to fault in pin inside the mechanism.

Somebody please mail me some contacts in Tata. I don't mind going to some dealer in noida itself, because going to Gurgaon for this issue does not make sense.
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Old 9th December 2008, 22:15   #35
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2 years never had any trouble as mentioned by tsk1979.

We've braked hard from 160 to 0 within striking distance, the Safari stood straight.
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Old 9th December 2008, 23:09   #36
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
According to him, slight fishtailing tendency is there, but with steering control it should not happen.
On inspection they found the culprit, pressure release valve.
For the rear brakes there is a pressure release valve, which releases pressure when it senses rear wheel lockup. Now this valve is not perfect, and works on vehicle movement detection, but it should do its job to a reasonable level.
You are describing ABS funtionality here.

LSPV is load sensing proportioning valve. Its adjusts the Front to Rear brake bias based on how much load you are carrying. Used in trucks. For example empty trucks need less rear bias otherwise they will lock the rears. In your case you have too much front bias. Looks like your LSPV is totally shot and is not able to hold a setting. Ask them to change it. Should be stable as a rock when you slam the brakes at 70.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nitrous View Post
Front-rear Brake bias setting is also a reason for rear fishtailing at high speed braking.

Last edited by Mpower : 9th December 2008 at 23:11.
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Old 9th December 2008, 23:12   #37
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@ jay: who has made comparisons to whom buddy? i would like to know. you are seriously misunderstanding "some" here. let me be blunt, scorpio was bought into picture because tanveer asked about it in his post, else i know the typical risks involved and the reaction tendencies!
anyways, does the technician mean the 'tandem master cylinder'? it serves the same purpose.

@ tsk: do you mean the proportioning valve? i dont think so it will change on its own accord. the best would be to replace it.

Last edited by raj_5004 : 9th December 2008 at 23:30.
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Old 10th December 2008, 00:15   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
If you have a fishtailing issue, then your problem is with th LSPV as many here have pointed out.

I've had the issue when the LSPV was not properly set, a slight tweak will make a world of difference. Nothing that calls for such bombastic titles like "Disaster By Design" -
I would not have given such bombastic title if this problem had been fixed.
So looks like the LSPV in the vehicle is shot.
And that does not seem to be the only problem
I just returned from a testing session.
At 80kmph, I literally stood on the brakes, locking all four wheels. The car skidded, slightly tilting towards the right. Very slight.
After that I repeated the same step again, and did hard braking, no standing up on brakes, the rear locked up, and the car went totally sideways. It was scary.
I tried it 3 times, over different banking(left banking, right banking, level road).
The result was same, rear goes towards the left, and I start facing the divider.

That reminded me of a conversation with sudev, who told me that even if rear locks up, I should skid straight unless I turn the steering.
So then I found a level road, and left the steering, the car does not go left or right below 60. However at around 70-80 or faster, the car is pulling towards the left.

At the service I had specifically told this issue that left rear wheel has negative camber and car is pulling to the left. Looks like there are two issues.
First is rear locking up, when front has still not locked up, so the LSPV may be shot, as it was adjusted, and still its pretty bad.
The other issue is there is something wrong with the alignment etc., or something, since she is pulling towards the left.
Tomorrow morning I will take a thread and measure the camber, and see if its still out.
I suspect they did the alignment, but did not adjust the camber, as its a big job in the safari(takes two hours).

Looks like when the Tata motors call comes in for the service feedback, Autolinks will not really get the 10 point rating they were expecting.

TO be frank I am annoyed with Tata. MY indica gave her first problem around 30K when the thermostat went Kaput. But the safari has given lots of problems, some niggles, and two major show stoppers.
Hopefully this is the last of the lot!
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Old 10th December 2008, 06:40   #39
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I am in the look out for a comfortable 4x4 SUV and having considered various options nothing beats the Safari 4x4 for value. I am still apprehensive about the quality. I can live with some of these issues, but safety at high speeds is very important for me. The question that I am trying to answer is whether it is worth paying double the price for a Fortuner, Endy or Pajero 2.8 or should I just compromise and keep the extra 10 lakhs in the bank..
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Old 10th December 2008, 08:11   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
So looks like the LSPV in the vehicle is shot.
.
.
the car does not go left or right below 60. However at around 70-80 or faster, the car is pulling towards the left.
Your rear brake wheel cylinders are suspect too - Please change them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
I am in the look out for a comfortable 4x4 SUV and having considered various options nothing beats the Safari 4x4 for value. ...

I just compromise and keep the extra 10 lakhs in the bank..
The TS is a good vehicle iff and i say IFF, you have a good service centre to understand and take care of your needs.

Its mostly the TASS guys who dont understand a thing and talk as if they know everything.
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Old 10th December 2008, 10:06   #41
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Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
I am in the look out for a comfortable 4x4 SUV and.......
OT for this thread but then I am a Grand Vitara fan. VFM proposition if you are willing to live with petrol.
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Old 10th December 2008, 11:56   #42
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true Headers!!! Guys in Chennai avoid OMR Checkpoint!! They don't what they are talking about or what they need to do with the complaints on the Safari.
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Old 11th December 2008, 15:40   #43
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Today I decided to get her checked at noida itself.
Did not want to go to sterling, so zeroed in on Dynamic.
Reached there at 2:30 and they said it cannot be fixed right now, they have to test etc., so car may have to be left overnight etc.,
I decided to bring it tomorrow morning, but on the way back decided to check out Ayush.
As my luck would have it, Ayush motors in sector 63 had Tata engineers visiting.
The service adviser took on a TD, and acknowledged that something is really wrong. The TML engineers are not testing the vehicle. They first want to interchange the drums etc., and do extensive testing. Will let me know what the problem is in the evening.
They say that even if the valve is locking the rear wheels early, the car should not trail left or right, it should skid straight.
In testing they braked hard without locking any of the wheels, and there is a noticeable pull towards the right with the tail itching to step out towards the left.
Hopefully, this time the problem will be solved once and for all.
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Old 11th December 2008, 16:41   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
I am in the look out for a comfortable 4x4 SUV and having considered various options nothing beats the Safari 4x4 for value. I am still apprehensive about the quality. I can live with some of these issues, but safety at high speeds is very important for me. The question that I am trying to answer is whether it is worth paying double the price for a Fortuner, Endy or Pajero 2.8 or should I just compromise and keep the extra 10 lakhs in the bank..
If 4x4 were not your requirement, I would suggest Scorpio mHawk. Reliability is the most vital trait of a moving machine and unfortunately TS is not up to the mark on that.

Cheers!!!
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Old 11th December 2008, 16:50   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
They say that even if the valve is locking the rear wheels early, the car should not trail left or right, it should skid straight.
In testing they braked hard without locking any of the wheels, and there is a noticeable pull towards the right with the tail itching to step out towards the left.
I would be glad to know the outcome. I've had similar issues in by E-Zen and my Jeeps and the Wheel cylinders were the issue in both the vehicles. Refer my earlier post confirming the same.

Cheers
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