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Old 14th December 2008, 12:23   #76
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Sir Alec Sir,

Sure we're discussing car secutiry and how crooks crack it.

Your post clearly indicated that you experienced / heard of many cases of M&M wheels falling off and there are many better alternatives, non-junk SUV's, available for 9 lakh or around. If there is some objective data, that would be educational. I also did some checking around with M&M circles, they don't have RFID in any of ther present vehecles, no information about anything coming out with RFID in the next 12 months.

Are there any vehicles in India, under the 10L bar, with RFID embeded in the key? Are there any SUV's in India with fool-proof car protection systems under the 10 lakh bracket? Most auto enthusiasts know of high teck security systems in the high end cars.

Your profile says you own a LR, many of them are stolen!!!! In fact so many of them are stolen there is a LR theft alert service here:

Theft Alert - STOLEN LAND ROVERS - report your stolen land rover here - stolen LAND ROVERS all countries

Actually, Maruti iCat costs only 3 K more; checked my Wagon R invoices (thought it was 7 K more) For 3 k more iCat is a great value-for-money proposition.

Again, there's nothing personal against anybody here, its all abut informed choices, we share information so we can take decisions, who has the time to fight? So Chill?

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Last edited by ramkya1 : 14th December 2008 at 12:36.
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Old 14th December 2008, 12:24   #77
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about 3 months back, in a newspaper, i read that the most preferred car by theives is the alto followed by the santro and then the scorpio!
now with the iCATS in marutis, i guess santros and scorpios are the easy target.
i think mahindras are aware about this issue not now, but since many months. its just that they chose to do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
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Old 14th December 2008, 12:58   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
So what do we make of this rather authoritative statement that riles M&M?


Seems more like irresponsible off-the-cuff statements. Do these serve a purpose?

It is worth wondering why various manufacturers did not follow the Maruti way, of providing the iCATs in every vehicle they make, regardless of price! This system is being offered by other makers on a selective basis, ie on the expensive models only.
Where is the logic to this?




This might happen sooner than we expect!
The Upper India Motorist (AAUI) reports a spurt in ECUs being stolen from cars! Once the thieves have a good supply of various ECUs, they'll get around the iCATs by simply plonking in a new ECU and driving off!
Not irresponsible, Exactly my point. You said the exact word that i was implying.

If my comments leads someone in not buying a mahindra, am i the irresponsible one. So be it, he will thank me for it in the long run.



Quote:
Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
siralec, no offence meant to you but this post made by you totally indicates your hatred toward M&M, i am not questioning your thoughts in any way, thats your personal choice.
but what you said about the RFID was totally incorrect as scorpio DOES NOT employ this tech. so i basically feel you know little about the vehicle to comment on it. i hope i am wrong!
moreover, wheels falling off... quality control... words like junk... where is this heading to mate? how is all this related to the current issue, which i think is the security system? if you are so sure that its a piece of junk, i am sure you must have had some real bad experiences which i would love to hear in another thread.



no purpose sir!

maybe its offered only on expensive models because that may justify the high price of the iCAT system . but then maruti offering this in the lower end models raises a question mark...
kudos to maruti...
You bet! i had, and Mahindra (also other indian manufacturer namely hyundai) but mostly mahindra has the habit of R&ding at customers expense, that too in an expensive way.

That tyres falling off etc incident was not mine but a fellow members experience here, he posted images of a brand new mhawk somewhere.
I don't just make them out of the blue.

Last edited by SirAlec : 14th December 2008 at 12:59.
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Old 14th December 2008, 13:37   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirAlec View Post
If my comments leads someone in not buying a mahindra, am i the irresponsible one. So be it, he will thank me for it in the long run.
LOL, think about this, Sir: If a man does not buy one, how will he ever know what he missed? And if he has suffered no pain, why will he come to thank you?!!

Are most non-M&M owners coming and expressing gratitude to you?

Last edited by anupmathur : 14th December 2008 at 13:38.
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Old 14th December 2008, 14:45   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirAlec View Post
You bet! i had, and Mahindra (also other indian manufacturer namely hyundai) but mostly mahindra has the habit of R&ding at customers expense, that too in an expensive way.

That tyres falling off etc incident was not mine but a fellow members experience here, he posted images of a brand new mhawk somewhere.
I don't just make them out of the blue.
i know the tyres falling off incident sir, i have read the thread! that was not a manufacturing defect, it was the irresponsinbility of the service centre. but of course, its mahindra who will be blamed.
but what i asked was- what purpose does that serve in this thread?
maybe you can post a new thread called "mahindra woes" and start posting all the troubles it caused and all your complains, we will actively participate.

3 questions still remain unanswered:
1) who told you that scorpios have iCATs? based on that, you wrote such an authorative post.
2) many land rovers are getting stolen as indicated by ramkya in his thread, so why not mahindras?
3) which other SUV below 10 lakhs offer you security features like iCATs that you are so offended by mahindra?

Quote:
Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
LOL, think about this, Sir: If a man does not buy one, how will he ever know what he missed? And if he has suffered no pain, why will he come to thank you?!!

Are most non-M&M owners coming and expressing gratitude to you?

that was a good one sir! now we can stick to this topic. many are ready with such posts in their mind for long as they rarely get to write something against mahindra!
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Old 14th December 2008, 14:52   #81
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How easy or time consuming is this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
The Upper India Motorist (AAUI) reports a spurt in ECUs being stolen from cars! Once the thieves have a good supply of various ECUs, they'll get around the iCATs by simply plonking in a new ECU and driving off!
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Old 14th December 2008, 15:28   #82
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Originally Posted by gd1418 View Post
How easy or time consuming is this?
I myself have wondered! More than that, as a hands on engineer, I would say that for most vehicles, the job can be done in a few minutes. I'd say under 5 minutes with good training and correct tools at hand!
There will a paradigm shift in the manner in which cars are stolen!
The AAUI magazine article advises things like welding the ECU or re-locating it, to gain those crucial extra minutes that might deter thieves!
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Old 14th December 2008, 20:26   #83
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Sorry if I sound silly,but couldn't stop myself asking here as the discussion has shifted to ECUs.

Does those cars who have their ECU remapped safer in a way? Because car thieves will in any case have the stock ECU code. So does it mean that members here who have their ECU remapped for an entirely different purpose, unknowingly have caused a credible deterrent to larceny ?

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Old 14th December 2008, 20:40   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ultimatechamp View Post
Sorry if I sound silly,but couldn't stop myself asking here as the discussion has shifted to ECUs.

Does those cars who have their ECU remapped safer in a way? Because car thieves will in any case have the stock ECU code. So does it mean that members here who have their ECU remapped for an entirely different purpose, unknowingly have caused a credible deterrent to larceny ?
I dont think remapped ECUs are any safer. I mean, once the thief has removed the remapped ECU and plonked in his own one, what difference does it make. Only difference is that the thief will drive away a little slower as he will not be able to utilise the remapped ECU .

Ofcourse, since I dont really understand mordern car electronics I may be totally wrong on the above. . If so others may please correct me.
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Old 14th December 2008, 21:07   #85
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Originally Posted by Strangerintown View Post
If so others may please correct me.
There seems to be no scope for correction!

A slower getaway, LOL!! Yes, that is what it will have to be!
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Old 14th December 2008, 23:49   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
i know the tyres falling off incident sir, i have read the thread! that was not a manufacturing defect, it was the irresponsinbility of the service centre. but of course, its mahindra who will be blamed.
but what i asked was- what purpose does that serve in this thread?
maybe you can post a new thread called "mahindra woes" and start posting all the troubles it caused and all your complains, we will actively participate.

3 questions still remain unanswered:
1) who told you that scorpios have iCATs? based on that, you wrote such an authorative post.
2) many land rovers are getting stolen as indicated by ramkya in his thread, so why not mahindras?
3) which other SUV below 10 lakhs offer you security features like iCATs that you are so offended by mahindra?




that was a good one sir! now we can stick to this topic. many are ready with such posts in their mind for long as they rarely get to write something against mahindra!

I never told mahindra has iCATS. review all the threads. I did tell that it has RFID in the key which act as immobiliser.
Don't worry LR is still exclusive in india. You can keep count of the owners.

I did advice a friend who was ready on sales persons review an old model scorpio, the very next week the CRDe came out. That sales person's duty or mahindra's duty is to inform its follower of this, Atleast they should have offered a discount on old model and inform about the discount to the buyer why he is giving so.

Recently we went to look for a Passat, in jaipur. The car on display was of 2007 make. Without asking we got very good offer on that. the showrrom guys gave us a choice of waiting for new car for a week or take the one in showroom, that too in a discount. My friend promptly bought it.
This is what should be the attitude of a company towards a prospective customer.

We owned a scorpio once, and it failed us miserably in Darjeeling Winter. the rear leaf broke like biscuits, it was no match watsoever for my 30 year old Land Rover.
Second was we bought a Voyager, thinking that it was Mitsubishi, It was very good, very cheap to maintain and run. but they abandoned midway. Its a shame!


You seem to Mahindra fans, Well i too like them in some sense, like the Legend/550 army, they are a great package.

The question remains!
But what answer will you give people who have put their hard earned odd 9lacs on these and thinking its fully loaded with anti theft blah- blah.

http://www.cubicXXXXXcapacity.com/ma...-22-mhawk-vlx/

Please remove XXXXX in above as this site is somehow censored by mods.
Please read the poor old man comment at end of the review! Do you have any answer for him.

Last edited by SirAlec : 15th December 2008 at 00:08.
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Old 15th December 2008, 00:11   #87
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You fans are in luck the last comments on that site points to- Guess where??
Our very own thread.

PS: Mods! I posted this after 15 mins. Please merge it with above if possible.

Last edited by SirAlec : 15th December 2008 at 00:13.
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Old 15th December 2008, 09:27   #88
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Raj,

Somewhere in the mail trail, you have mentioned about the the ASC guys knowing your changed Imm. Code. That need not be the case. They have a half page print out of 'how' to change the imm. code. I took that sheet and did it on my own. I later went to them to ask them to break into my car with the std code. The car would not start!! so the code is changed to my number.

I agree to some extent about the varied discussions on the safety features for the car. However, ultimately whether it is the company's defect or thief's efficiency, we as customers stand to loose.
So, lets take this up with M&M as a consolidated case so that it stands good ground with them!
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Old 15th December 2008, 09:44   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirAlec View Post

I did advice a friend who was ready on sales persons review an old model scorpio, the very next week the CRDe came out. That sales person's duty or mahindra's duty is to inform its follower of this, Atleast they should have offered a discount on old model and inform about the discount to the buyer why he is giving so.

Recently we went to look for a Passat, in jaipur. The car on display was of 2007 make. Without asking we got very good offer on that. the showrrom guys gave us a choice of waiting for new car for a week or take the one in showroom, that too in a discount. My friend promptly bought it.
This is what should be the attitude of a company towards a prospective customer.

We owned a scorpio once, and it failed us miserably in Darjeeling Winter. the rear leaf broke like biscuits, it was no match watsoever for my 30 year old Land Rover.
Second was we bought a Voyager, thinking that it was Mitsubishi, It was very good, very cheap to maintain and run. but they abandoned midway. Its a shame!


The question remains!
But what answer will you give people who have put their hard earned odd 9lacs on these and thinking its fully loaded with anti theft blah- blah.
sadly, again tha same question: how does all these find a place in this thread?
sir, its not like we are mahindra fans or something. infact we are ready to hear and understand your dislike and problems with mahindra. but for that, i had requested you to take the trouble to create a new thread since now you are attacking a thread which was meant for some other purpose and interefering in smoothly running discussions with some posts which are of no meaning to the thread.

P.S.: i would love to see the pic of your scorpio's leaf spring which broke like biscuits!
thinking that the voyager can perform lke a mitsuibishi is itself a big mistake on your side!

finally, i dont need to answer anyone as nobody buys a 9 lakh odd scorpio just because it has anti theft and blah blah... there are lot many reasons to it which you may not be aware of.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SirAlec View Post
You fans are in luck the last comments on that site points to- Guess where??
Our very own thread.

PS: Mods! I posted this after 15 mins. Please merge it with above if possible.
sorry buddy, the site dint open even after removing XXXXX.

Quote:
Originally Posted by getsurya View Post
Raj,

Somewhere in the mail trail, you have mentioned about the the ASC guys knowing your changed Imm. Code. That need not be the case. They have a half page print out of 'how' to change the imm. code. I took that sheet and did it on my own. I later went to them to ask them to break into my car with the std code. The car would not start!! so the code is changed to my number.

I agree to some extent about the varied discussions on the safety features for the car. However, ultimately whether it is the company's defect or thief's efficiency, we as customers stand to loose.
So, lets take this up with M&M as a consolidated case so that it stands good ground with them!
hey, you mean we can do it on our own? so can this be done at our residence itself by simply telling them to main or fax the page or you have to go the A.S.S. to get this done? maybe you need some equipment to get this done.
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Old 15th December 2008, 09:48   #90
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Raj,
You do not need any equipment. Ask your ASC to provide you the details. I do not remember but just involves some work with Ignition key in on position , some security button presses present in/above the glove box.& ofcourse some number counting tooo!!
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