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Old 13th December 2008, 11:51   #91
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Originally Posted by vid6639 View Post
tested all these car's on track driven by Narain Karthikeyan.

The Cedia and the Civic were very poor handlers because of the suspension setup. They could not carry speed into corners due to excessive roll and dive under brakes. Narain was disappointed with the handling of both cars. The Honda Cr-V fared better than these 2. The Ford fiesta 1.6 was just a little slower than the Skoda Octavia vRS and faster than the Cedia and Civic.
The Honda CR-V is AWD hence better than the cedia and civic that are FWD. Fords have always emphasised on giving excellent handling cars and the Fiesta is no exception.

OT: While tailing Nitrous in our initial track day, Nitrous in his icon 1.3 did a beautiful slide off at the end of the rear straight, but managed to keep the car on track. I was a few feet behind him and it was a superb sight. Later, rode shotgun with him just to appreciate how good the underpowered icon was on track!
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Old 13th December 2008, 12:16   #92
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Well by improving your car, you are going faster than before right? My only point is you can go faster & probably be much safer (to yourself and others) by making some necessary changes. But, yes that in a way does not make you a faster driver or maybe it does? To be able to handle the improvement in the vehicle you still need to have that extra room (within yourself) to handle it right? For eg, say your top end has been increased by mods. If you are able to take it to its new limit, you are moving one step ahead. There are people who irrespective of mods, will not be able to harness its potential to even 50%. Their self potential gets stagnant (say at a particular speed, top end or entry into a corner due to lack of confidence in self & not the machine) irrespective of further amendments to the limit of the car.
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No point comparing a cycle to a busa. Compare two cars of the similar power bracket but different handling styles. OHC Vtec vs Fiesta 1.6S. Do let me know which do you think you would clock better lap times on, say at the MMST. I would love each of us here to do this test on track. Who is volunteering to let us TD a fiesta . Shan, you can get your VTEC to support your view on paper right?
You're missing the point. Performance driving is more about the driver than the car. If i drive the Vtec and then drive the Fiesta, the lap times wont be the same, but thats not bcoz my driving skills have changed, its bcoz the cars behave differently.

I might be going faster in one car, but that doesn't make me a faster driver.

But if i can improve my lap times by even 2 secs in the same car, that would definately make me a lot happier than sitting in a powerful/modified car to achieve the same goal.

If you really want to test performance, lets try this next track day. You drive a car around the track for a session, then i'l drive the same car (with the exact same setup) in the next session. Thats the only way to tell who is a faster driver.......and not through car modifications.

Shan2nu

Last edited by Shan2nu : 13th December 2008 at 12:17.
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Old 13th December 2008, 12:30   #93
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Originally Posted by Shan2nu View Post
I think it would be best to change the title from Essential Guide : To driving fast! to Essential Guide : To improving lap times!.
I agree with this point. We as a responsible forum should not be advocating nor teaching how to drive fast on public roads & highways.
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Old 13th December 2008, 13:05   #94
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Originally Posted by Shan2nu View Post
You're missing the point. Performance driving is more about the driver than the car. If i drive the Vtec and then drive the Fiesta, the lap times wont be the same, but thats not bcoz my driving skills have changed, its bcoz the cars behave differently.
Shan you are completely missing my point of this thread. Yes the cars will behave differently and thus relate to different lap times. But I feel its necessary to choose the car with better equipment or a better overall package (or make up for the weak links) to have an overall safe yet fast drive.

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If you really want to test performance, lets try this next track day. You drive a car around the track for a session, then i'l drive the same car (with the exact same setup) in the next session. Thats the only way to tell who is a faster driver.......and not through car modifications.
I never compete with anyone saying I am a better driver. Till date I have never mentioned to anyone saying I am better than a driver X. Even if that comparison is with my brother who is just learning to drive. The point of this thread is not to point out that I am faster than you, or you are faster than me. The point is, if you like driving fast, do keep in mind certain precautions to be able to enjoy driving fast "in a safe manner". When I/us are driving in a pack of 4 cars on a track, I am sure you will feel safe when you know the other persons car is safe around you. For eg, if a member XXX were to be racing with us in his zonda with bent chassy, I am sure none of us would be comfortable. I would like to have fun on a track with people who have the right equipment (both in the machine and in the upper compartment of their heads). That is the the point I am trying to make. Let us make it as safe for others and ourselves when driving fast. That can be done only by chosing the right equipment.
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Old 13th December 2008, 13:13   #95
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Originally Posted by Shan2nu View Post
If you really want to test performance, lets try this next track day. You drive a car around the track for a session, then i'l drive the same car (with the exact same setup) in the next session. Thats the only way to tell who is a faster driver.......and not through car modifications.

Shan2nu
Hey Shan2nu, you are my man, please do give me a call anytime

PS: There is no ego bashing here, just friendly experiments and understanding better techniques!
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Old 13th December 2008, 15:26   #96
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Originally Posted by headers View Post
The Honda CR-V is AWD hence better than the cedia and civic that are FWD. Fords have always emphasised on giving excellent handling cars and the Fiesta is no exception.
If I am not mistaken, CRV is very much front wheel driven untill a wheelspin is detected, which is when some power/torque is directed the rear wheels. I dont think the good handling of CRV has anything to to with it being 'part time' 4WD
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Old 13th December 2008, 16:11   #97
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Shan you are completely missing my point of this thread. Yes the cars will behave differently and thus relate to different lap times. But I feel its necessary to choose the car with better equipment or a better overall package (or make up for the weak links) to have an overall safe yet fast drive.
But your thread says "guide to driving fast", which is driver related.

That is why i requested a title change so that we can end this confusion and discuss points related to car modifications as well.

Quote:
I never compete with anyone saying I am a better driver. Till date I have never mentioned to anyone saying I am better than a driver X. Even if that comparison is with my brother who is just learning to drive. The point of this thread is not to point out that I am faster than you, or you are faster than me. The point is, if you like driving fast, do keep in mind certain precautions to be able to enjoy driving fast "in a safe manner". When I/us are driving in a pack of 4 cars on a track, I am sure you will feel safe when you know the other persons car is safe around you. For eg, if a member XXX were to be racing with us in his zonda with bent chassy, I am sure none of us would be comfortable. I would like to have fun on a track with people who have the right equipment (both in the machine and in the upper compartment of their heads). That is the the point I am trying to make. Let us make it as safe for others and ourselves when driving fast. That can be done only by chosing the right equipment
There is no such thing as "right equipment" when it comes to enjoying your car on track. All you need is a well maintained car, doesn't matter even if its stock.

Infact, sometimes a car with stock equipment can help improve your driving skills as you need to put in a lot more effort to be quick and not make mistakes at the same time.

But yeah, if its an official time attack where the fastest car gets rewarded, then equipment plays a big role.

And if you find a Zonda with a bent chassis on track, you should report it to the organizers and have him removed. And had that zen not been modified with a powerful Honda engine, that chassis would not have been bent in the first place.

Shan2nu
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Old 13th December 2008, 16:19   #98
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Hey Shan2nu, you are my man, please do give me a call anytime

PS: There is no ego bashing here, just friendly experiments and understanding better techniques!
Sure, i really wanna do this. And like you said there is no ego bashing here, it's a friendly test to see who can extract the best performance out a car while minimizing wear and tear. No point having the fastest lap time if you're gonna shred your tyres in 1 session.

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Old 13th December 2008, 16:32   #99
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Can the senior members on this forum please give it a break. this is like a four year old's bickering. no offence meant. but i guess both of you'll are saying person, equipment and awareness are all equally important. POINT NOTED now can we PLEASE move on?
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Old 13th December 2008, 16:41   #100
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this is like a four year old's bickering
Welcome to team-bhp. LOL

Anyway, i think this has gone a bit too far (as usual).

Mods, please change the title before it gets any worse.

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Old 13th December 2008, 19:52   #101
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Nice Thread, Quite an eye opener for me the next time i drive on the highway,

Even i would like to add some inputs to this thread based on some experiences and how i could better my driving through others inputs, Here is the scenario;
If i am driving fast ,while at the same time there is a car maintaining equal good speed, how do you react to such a situation? I would generally maintain a good speed and if he does overtake i make sure i am out of his way if he really is faster/rash. But sometimes i have noticed that's some guys like lets assume the guy who just overtook me, just maintain the speed and go away i wouldnt bother, but most of them i have seen, do it just for the heck of overtaking and after passing by they kind of slow down ( and now it becomes a problem, because
A) He has inturn slowed me down too
B) I have seen in some cases that the guy dosent let you overtake (speed up when you are passing him).
I am just penning this down as i have seen this is the case a lot of times on the Bangalore Mysore Highway. I would like to know what others think of this and how to handle such situations as some of us like driving fast and it shouldn't look like we are racing/rashly driving in such incidents. In normally try to keep good speed and if that guy really needs to overtake i let him go and try to lower my own speed/or stop by to have tender coconut just to get my head cleared and carry on. If i did continue i would feel somehow he is slowing my pace as well, at the same time there would be a tendency to get irritated. Maybe here MClaren's post of observing a car before you overtake and keep ahead is a different approach to it and sometimes could help in such situations.

It would be nice in this thread if others also post up such situations and how everyone would react as it would really help us to understand each others driving better and would get some valuable pointers as well.

P.S I hope i have not brought up a stupid query and felt this is the right place to post such situations.

Last edited by redrage : 13th December 2008 at 20:01.
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Old 13th December 2008, 22:48   #102
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MCCLAREN 1885, thanks for this wonderful thread.

This might not be useful to guys like sideways and ananth, who might be knowing every tricks of the trade. But for guys like us whom we think that fast driving is just pressing the "A" pedal and just watch the speedo grows, this is an eye opener.

But I disagree with the engine braking point which I have raised in my previous posts too, if you could have time to remove the hand from the steering and cut the gears, that not a panic situation at all. For me panic situation really meant standing on the brakes and direct the steering away from the objecting path (I might be wrong, correct data's with best examples will help me to learn)


SB's thread is really an another eye opener for guys think alike me

Lots of useful inputs in this threads, as MC1885 points out, lets keep only the technical inputs.

Last edited by Surprise : 13th December 2008 at 23:07.
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Old 14th December 2008, 01:21   #103
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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
With a very large and heavy hammer.



Try googling Engine braking!

(and don't mind me: I make the same mistake. Often.)
That was an eye opener. Accepted very positively !!
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Old 14th December 2008, 01:49   #104
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Originally Posted by mclaren1885 View Post
Engine Braking: Remember, the quickest way to stop is to use a combination of engine braking along with the B pedal. It ensures you are always in control of the vehicle. Contrary to what most people think, engine braking is one factor that could improve your braking distances by miles. Don't bother about what damage it could do for your engine, bother about your life. Engine braking is something that will not come to everyone through instinct. It needs practise.
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There are a number of reasons you might want to engage in engine braking. The first is that it puts little or no more load on your engine than it would otherwise bear, but saves considerable wear on your brakes.
Which of this statements are true ? Does engine braking have adverse effects on the engine ?

And how actually do you do engine breaking ? Is it like hitting clutch 1st, do a downshift and then applying brakes ?

NB: Quote 2 read from Engine Braking@Everything2.com
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Old 14th December 2008, 09:50   #105
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Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
I think this engine braking thing is overrated, at least for diesels
The Engine Braking "thing" is especially applicable for diesels, try driving down a steep slope with comparable diesel and petrol cars in gear, see where you have to use the regular brakes.

Try driving in the Ghats sometime as well, you will thank yourself if you drive a diesel.

Last edited by teknophobia : 14th December 2008 at 09:59.
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