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Old 14th December 2008, 12:41   #106
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Originally Posted by teknophobia View Post
Try driving in the Ghats sometime as well, you will thank yourself if you drive a diesel.
Small Query:

IMO I'm not really a diesel person as I enjoy driving at higher RPM's and have a rather enthusiastic driving style. However, having heard amazing reviews of the new CRDi technology on TBhp, and wanting to check it for myself, I recently drove the Verna in the hills.

Somehow, I didn't find it to be as fun as my OHC because although it was a torquey engine and the pickup was very good, I somehow felt that the game was only between 2k-4k rpm. While driving aggressively, I didn't feel the need to downshift at corners, a very good thing from my dad's perspective, but I kindof enjoy that aspect of driving.

A week later I drove my OHC on the same hills, it was awesome fun in the sense that I was more engaged.

What I really want to know is, am I driving wrong if I find the petrol to be more fun on ghats/hills?

Another perspective to the same question, on a track, or say to an enthusiastic high-revving driver, which would be more fun to drive - a 530i or 530D?

Thanks.

Last edited by manveet : 14th December 2008 at 12:46.
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Old 14th December 2008, 15:20   #107
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I don't want to get into another diesel v. petrol thread, all I will write about in the next few lines is my experience with both so that you can understand why I prefer diesels, not whether either is better or worse.

To start off with, let me say that though I enjoy both high revving speed runs and relaxed cruising, however, I prefer relaxed cruising. I find petrol engines to be high strung, quick to rev, quick to lose power i.e. light whereas turbodiesels seem to have a substance to them, not very quick off the mark, but with a feeling of a certain power being unleashed a certain amount of substance. I love the way you can move off with nary a dab on the accelerator and how you can keep cruising for hours without so much as a murmur of protest or any feeling of tiredness (both the car and myself). I love the torque when going up and down slopes and I love the deep growl when I'm revving it. Finally, I love it when I have to pay the fuel bills
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Old 14th December 2008, 19:12   #108
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this is purely an art form that you either have or you don't. You can guide a person to correcting a mistake(s)...but only so much. A fast driver is fast irrespective of what he is in or in what state of tune his car is in.
As in the case of Schumi...whether it was the 2004 F1 car or the minivan cab that he drove [http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ort-dash.html] its knowing to extract the maximum out of a given vehicle safely. And that is talent, that all dont possess. Swerving through metropolitan traffic with a farty exhaust can and thumping bass is not fast... that just makes you look like an auto driver. Neither is turning at 80KPH with your overtyred FWD car thinking your pushing the envelope of grip... thats just physics.
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Old 14th December 2008, 23:35   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manveet View Post
What I really want to know is, am I driving wrong if I find the petrol to be more fun on ghats/hills?

Another perspective to the same question, on a track, or say to an enthusiastic high-revving driver, which would be more fun to drive - a 530i or 530D?

Thanks.
No, you are not driving wrong. A petrol is a petrol, end of story. And I would always pick the i over the d, atleast on track or through the twisties.
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Old 15th December 2008, 10:55   #110
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Lets put it this way each engines method of power delivery is different. each kind has its own lineup. diesels are torque laden motors so you get to play with it in any gear. petrols are power laden more horsey lets say they allow you to punch up the gears fast which makes you want to push harder. i mean its good for each kind of preference. even if both are rated the same. a good way to test is to drive the same car petrol and diesel back to back. in the comparo between the 530d and the i me thinks you should watch this top gear video on the boys going for the 24hr race on the silverstone track. the stig's timings are fantastic and they were punching a 3 year old USED 530 d against the M versions. SO all in all at the end of the day its what YOU as a driver can extract out of the car. HOW YOU HARNESS the POTENTIAL safely is important!
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Old 15th December 2008, 11:19   #111
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@mclaren
Excellent writeup mate,a very comprehensive guide and one that should be read by everyone intending to be Schumi.Actually everyone should be reading this,very good points mentioned esp about safety and braking.Engine braking and releasing brakes in emergencies is critical.I'd like to add one thing to the list,insignificant though it may sound.Always drive in a position that gives you the best access to the pedals,gearshift and the wheel.Have noticed lots of youngsters in Mumbai trying to appear cool by taking their seats all the way back.In addition,above 80 km/hour you should keep both hands on the wheel in the 10-2 position.

PS-Any tracks to practice on your own car in Mumbai?

Last edited by maverick030581 : 15th December 2008 at 11:31.
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Old 15th December 2008, 11:39   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maverick030581 View Post
In addition,above 80 km/hour you should keep both hands on the wheel in the 10-2 position.
Can you clarify this point? I thought 9-3 is the best position. Simple mechanics tells us that the hands can apply more torque on the steering wheel from a 9-3 position. Besides I don't see racing or rally drivers use 10-2.
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Old 15th December 2008, 11:50   #113
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Practise helps.
Make it mandatory on yourself to test out a high speed sudden brake test every 6 months.
Hit the rev limiter a couple of times a year in controlled environments.

Use common sense.
Don't mess with erratic fools on wheels. They are on a suicide mission. Avoid them.

Walk around your car and inspect it every morning before take off.

Wash your car, yourself. Helps identify and spot any body problems.

Remember that at 120 kmph you are crossing a km every 30 seconds.
And if you want to stop your car it will cross atleast one km before coming to a halt.
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Old 15th December 2008, 12:00   #114
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@watashi - Interesting point and one that has been debated by me and several of my friends time and again.As you mentioned even F-1 drivers have their hands on the wheel in the 9-3 position.A poll on this would be interesting,wat say I guess it comes down to personal preference.having tried both positions extensively in my 8 years of driving I personally felt control to be much greater in emergencies in the 10-2 position.Some may find 9-3 to be better.Anyway the critical point is to have both hands on the wheel at higher speeds.Nowadays I see even collegians on the expressway happily driving at 150+ with just one hand on the wheel.Not safe and not recommended to anyone.
Anyone who wants to share their views on 9-3 / 10-2 would be welcome.
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Old 15th December 2008, 12:30   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by watashi75 View Post
Can you clarify this point? I thought 9-3 is the best position. Simple mechanics tells us that the hands can apply more torque on the steering wheel from a 9-3 position. Besides I don't see racing or rally drivers use 10-2.
You are right a 9-3 position is always advised. But over 80 Kms a 10-2 would give you a better control over the car as your would be cruising and would require little and accurate maneuvering to be done. Try it on a stretch for 5 kms. You will know the difference. Please come back to 9 - 3 position when you are in city traffic
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Old 15th December 2008, 14:02   #116
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Apart from the fact that 9-3 position is more airbag friendly, it seems to give better control and less fatigue. See the below article -

Racing Schools - Driving Tips - Steering - RacingSchools.Com

Maybe 10-2 is fine when we are cruising at high speed on expressways. But I think 9-3 would be preferable on hilly and curvy roads and tracks. By the way fast guys, how do you turn the steering wheel when you have to make sharp turns? Do you shuffle your hands or move hand over hand?
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Old 15th December 2008, 14:22   #117
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Forgot to mention the obviuos,that is,keeping your arms bent and not ramrod straight while gripping the wheel Anyway what I stated was just my personal experience,I have always felt that under hard braking or in the case of a tyre blowout its easier to control the wheel when exerting force slightly from the top,ie 10-2 rather than from the side(9-3).To each his own I guess.
While making sharp turns IMO its best not to overcook it into the turn,like Mclaren mentioned its best to brake early into the corner and then accelerate as per your judgement of the variables.Steering in either case is a piece of cake then
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Old 15th December 2008, 15:44   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbalii View Post
You are right a 9-3 position is always advised. But over 80 Kms a 10-2 would give you a better control over the car as your would be cruising and would require little and accurate maneuvering to be done. Try it on a stretch for 5 kms. You will know the difference. Please come back to 9 - 3 position when you are in city traffic
Is it based on your experience or is there any proven theory behind?
It is likely that people sit more upright (as against lean back posture during relaxted driving) and hold the steering close to their chest (even with bent arms) when they drive fast and to accomodate this 10-2 position comes naturally.
If the driver is still in a lean back position, the 10-2 is going to strain the arms and some amount of precision over the steering control goes away.
I am just thinking aloud here

Last edited by Guna : 15th December 2008 at 15:45.
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Old 16th December 2008, 05:02   #119
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Originally Posted by mclaren1885 View Post
I seem to have a slightly contradicting view here. Do correct me if I am wrong. A inferior tire will have less rolling resistance, which means a car will definitely be achieving faster speeds till the time you hit the corner (provided you haven't been wasting time spinning wheels). Its a different issue whether that set of tire can take the corner safely, but a superior tire will probably slow your entry speed a bit, but let you keep a faster corner speed throughout? Correct me if my theory is wrong.

Here is a handson experience from a fellow member karthik kumar: He says on his swift D shod with JK Vectra's his car felt a lot faster from 0-100 or reaching top end because of the low rolling resistance. But once he switched to the AD07's his 0-100 timing has suffered a bit due to the extra grip provided by these tires. But what he is very happy is that he can maintain sufficiently way higher speeds through corners even if his entry speed isn't as good as with the JK's. IMO the fun driving with the AD07's and being able to take corners way quicker (extracting the limits of the car way better and also feeling in control than JK's) is what I would prefer doing.
Actually what you are saying is different from what i meant. You are talking about the rolling resistance of a stock tyre against an upsized one and comparing an inferior tyre to a good one.

But what i wanted to put accross was the fact that even the best of tyres wont provide optimum grip in a corner which might have a layer of sand or gravel, here i am referring to highway situations where you dont know what lies at the next corner and there is a high degree of uncertainity but still one wished to drive fast.
Tyres which provide a good level of grip get up operating temperature fast due to the soft compound and thus become sticky, in this state when the tyre comes in contact with dust/sand/gravel, they stick to the tyre which in-turn losses grip/traction as contact between road and tyre becomes less.
An inferior tyre will anyways lose grip if pushed hard through the corner even on the cleanest of tracks.
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Old 16th December 2008, 08:28   #120
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Originally Posted by harry10 View Post
Its not the car who wins the race but the person who is driving it! Thats why driving skills are always more impo than the car you are driving.
This is very true and I have personal experiences also. In my 12+years of driving experience, and many years as co-driver with my cousin, many a times I driven faster than him instantaneously but never able to cover up a certain distance with better timing. This was in public road on various types of vehicles, and certainly not on high end racing cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by bblost View Post
Remember that at 120 kmph you are crossing a km every 30 seconds.
And if you want to stop your car it will cross atleast one km before coming to a halt.
Is it so...? I belief the moment you press B-Pedal, the speed will come down, so where does the 1km comes from? Please excuse my ignorance.
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