Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Technical Stuff


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 19th January 2009, 14:51   #31
GTO
Team-BHP Support
 
GTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 47,717
Thanked: 88,950 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
Agreed but it does depend on your driving style. Most manufacturers do not take into account Urban Indian conditions when defining their specifications.
Navin, the C does have an onboard computer which changes the service timing depending on your driving style. For instance, in the mid of last year, the car did a LOT of highway driving (Goa etc.). I saw the service call being extended by a couple of hundred kms. That said, I don't go over Mercs standard recommendation of 10K. For the Jeep & Vtec, my intervals are placed at 7,500 / 12 months tops.
GTO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th January 2009, 15:59   #32
Distinguished - BHPian
 
sgiitk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Kanpur
Posts: 7,159
Thanked: 3,752 Times
Default

I drive about 8,000km per annum on each of my cars and use a semi-synth (Magnatec). What I understand is the following, which also summarises the discussions to date:

1. Using synth in a new engine is not normally recommended. It is desirable to allow the 'rough edges' to wear down before trying to 'stop' further wear and tear. Thus do about 15,000 or so km before switching to premium lubes.

2. During the warranty change oil as specified.

3. After hat you can change Synth oil at least once a year and extend the change interval to 20,000-30,000km, if you drive that much.

Prior to the Accent I had an Esteem for 6-1/2 years and 61,000km. After the warranty (1 year/15,000km) I used to change the oil once a year, and mostly used a synth from Esso or Mobil. The fellow who bought it drove it for a further 300,000km before selling it. He never got the engine opened. Obviously something I did was right!

Last edited by sgiitk : 19th January 2009 at 16:01. Reason: Typos
sgiitk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 19th January 2009, 21:35   #33
Senior - BHPian
 
R2D2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Punya Nagari
Posts: 1,889
Thanked: 1,127 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
I drive about 8,000km per annum on each of my cars and use a semi-synth (Magnatec). What I understand is the following, which also summarises the discussions to date:

1. Using synth in a new engine is not normally recommended. It is desirable to allow the 'rough edges' to wear down before trying to 'stop' further wear and tear. Thus do about 15,000 or so km before switching to premium lubes.

3. After hat you can change Synth oil at least once a year and extend the change interval to 20,000-30,000km, if you drive that much.


Prior to the Accent I had an Esteem for 6-1/2 years and 61,000km. After the warranty (1 year/15,000km) I used to change the oil once a year, and mostly used a synth from Esso or Mobil. The fellow who bought it drove it for a further 300,000km before selling it. He never got the engine opened. Obviously something I did was right!
Sir ji, you do not need to run your car 10,000 kms to use synth. You can use it when the car is new. Please read about Mobil 1 on Mobil - The Oil That's Changing Oil in the Car Care section

Noooo!! You MUST follow manufacturers recommended drain intervals unless the product is marked as extended drain. This 20-30K kms drain interval is hogwash perpetuated by Indian retailers.

Synth helps at any time. It is THE best for your engine. If you get the correct grade and are ok to pay 5x the cost of good multigrade engine oil, go for it. I prefer to change my engine oil every 4K or 6 months on the dot with the best multigrade or semi synth. Just my 2C.

Cheers!

Last edited by R2D2 : 19th January 2009 at 21:37.
R2D2 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 19th January 2009, 21:54   #34
Senior - BHPian
 
nitrous's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: UAE/Lon/Madras
Posts: 6,966
Thanked: 282 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by raccoon
You can collect your used oil in an old oil container or something and take it to your service centre or any other garage who you know positively sends the oil for recycling. I have been told that the garages sell this used oil... so they should be happy to take it from you for free. This is what I do.
Old oil is bought at 7 bucks a litre(previously Rs.5) in barrels from mechanics,garages,service centres,etc. by spurious oil dealers who process this oil with "some powder" and sell them in repacked oil cans.

I don't know if you can call this recycling.
nitrous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th January 2009, 23:34   #35
Senior - BHPian
 
Raccoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Poona
Posts: 1,832
Thanked: 105 Times
Default

Well, one of the garages told me that it was sold to paint companies... obviously for making paint after processing the oil. I cannot verify that this is the truth.

To be frank, even if it goes to spurious oil dealers, its better than disposing the oil anywhere else. I would never be able to live with myself if I do that.

What is the source of your info, btw?
Raccoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th January 2009, 23:47   #36
Senior - BHPian
 
Raccoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Poona
Posts: 1,832
Thanked: 105 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
Sir ji, you do not need to run your car 10,000 kms to use synth. You can use it when the car is new. Please read about Mobil 1 on Mobil - The Oil That's Changing Oil in the Car Care section

Cheers!
I have my reservations about this. See the list of cars mentioned, and also the note "The fact is, current engine manufacturing technology does not require this break-in period. As indicated by the decisions of the engineers who design the high-performance cars listed above". This might be true for the cars listed on the Mobil site, but how many of us are talking about these cars?? Neither can our manufacturing tech be compared to the cars that are being talked about nor are our cars "high-performance". I don't even think this applies to the Indian auto scenario.

What is more, I wouldn't be in a hurry to trust what is mentioned by just one manufacturer (Mobil). Of course, it may be right for the kind of cars talked about on the Mobil site, am not disputing that! Does anybody else recommend this?

If I were a new car/bike owner, I'd prefer to run the 1st few thousand km on mineral oil. I may be wrong, but it'll be a "lesser evil", IMHO.
Raccoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th January 2009, 01:06   #37
Awaiting Email Confirmation
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: ERNAKULAM
Posts: 947
Thanked: 317 Times
Default Please read up on fluids erroneously called coolants.

Quote:
Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post

If you want to make sure your car runs cool, also check your coolant premix. A 50%-50% coolant to (distilled) water is max recommended with some coolant manufacturers recommending 30%-70% coolant to water mix. Go with 50% as it is the safest from cooling capability and corrosion prevention viewpoint.

Cheers!

R2D2
Dear R2D2, have read your posts in this thread and find you definitely have a level head on your shoulders and give sincerely sane advice. Keep up the goodwork. There is one nagging point which you might do well to read up and that is about fluids mistakely called coolants the world over. Please note that water is the coolant in our engines and the Glycol(Coolant?) that we add is for other purposes. I had explained elsewhere about this. Another factor is that the boiling point of water is dependent on the pressure it faces. In a closed system like in our kitchen pressure cooker it boils at 125degrees. At high altitudes in an open container because of low atmopheric pressure it boils at below 100 degrees centigrade.
Please read the functions of the glycol in the links provided.

Importance of pH Value in Engine's Coolant

AMSOIL - Propylene Glycol Antifreeze and Engine Coolant (ANT)

So in a nutshell I might add that glycol based fluids are added to the engine coolant( Water) in our tropical climates primarily to inhibit corrosion/promote lubricity and secondarily as an impurity to increase the boiling point of water.
Stick to your manufacturers reccomendation for the concentration and drain periods.
drpullockaran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th January 2009, 01:46   #38
Team-BHP Support
 
theMAG's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 7,036
Thanked: 1,469 Times
Default

Once/12 months or 10000 kms - whichever comes first, has worked well for me. The oil being drained out at the time of change is almost like brand new.

Last edited by theMAG : 20th January 2009 at 01:48.
theMAG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th January 2009, 22:24   #39
Senior - BHPian
 
R2D2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Punya Nagari
Posts: 1,889
Thanked: 1,127 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by drpullockaran View Post
Dear R2D2, have read your posts in this thread and find you definitely have a level head on your shoulders and give sincerely sane advice. Keep up the goodwork. There is one nagging point which you might do well to read up and that is about fluids mistakely called coolants the world over. Please note that water is the coolant in our engines and the Glycol(Coolant?) that we add is for other purposes. I had explained elsewhere about this. Another factor is that the boiling point of water is dependent on the pressure it faces. In a closed system like in our kitchen pressure cooker it boils at 125degrees. At high altitudes in an open container because of low atmopheric pressure it boils at below 100 degrees centigrade.
Please read the functions of the glycol in the links provided.

Importance of pH Value in Engine's Coolant

AMSOIL - Propylene Glycol Antifreeze and Engine Coolant (ANT)

So in a nutshell I might add that glycol based fluids are added to the engine coolant( Water) in our tropical climates primarily to inhibit corrosion/promote lubricity and secondarily as an impurity to increase the boiling point of water.
Stick to your manufacturers reccomendation for the concentration and drain periods.
Thanks drPullockaran for the kind words

I am aware the coolant in the engine or the heat transfer agent is actually water, not the glycol which is only there for corrosion prevention, increasing the boiling point of the water and sometimes even lubing the water pump. Which is why in India, a hot tropical country, we are required to maintain a max 1:1 dilution ratio of coolant concentrate. Or if more heat transfer is required (at the expense of all the good things coolant does in the cooling system) you can dilute the concentrate further to a 2:1 or even 3:1 water to concentrate ratio.

I am merely using a collective term that refers to the glycol + water mix as 'coolant'. How many undiluted coolant (glycol) concentrates are labelled by the chemical name 'mono ethylene glycol'?

Rgds,
R2D2 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 20th January 2009, 22:30   #40
Senior - BHPian
 
R2D2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Punya Nagari
Posts: 1,889
Thanked: 1,127 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raccoon View Post
If I were a new car/bike owner, I'd prefer to run the 1st few thousand km on mineral oil. I may be wrong, but it'll be a "lesser evil", IMHO.
I agree that what Mobil is not the definitive guide to synthetic usage and degree of adaptation. But then Amsoil makes some rather questionable claims too.

The key word is the 1st few thousand kms. I believe that an engine that is new is most vulnerable to friction and load and that is precisely when synth helps. It is after all the best lube you can get albeit for a price. Most people reckon that they need to do 10-15K kms on mineral before they switch. I dont believe we need to wait that long.

I'd move to synth right now on a 3 month old 2000 KM run car if I get the right grade & if I am assured by the manufacturer that my car's warranty wont be void if I use an aftermarket synth oil instead of the 'genuine' multigrade stuff they push you to use.

Regards,
R2D2 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 21st January 2009, 13:23   #41
GTO
Team-BHP Support
 
GTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 47,717
Thanked: 88,950 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
I agree that what Mobil is not the definitive guide to synthetic usage and degree of adaptation.
They are selling you the oil. Key is to lock in the customer as early as possible. However:

Quote:
I believe that an engine that is new is most vulnerable to friction and load and that is precisely when synth helps.
I want a certain amount of wear & tear / bedding in during this period. That's why I don't use Mobil 1 for the initial 10,000 kms.

Quote:
Most people reckon that they need to do 10-15K kms on mineral before they switch. I dont believe we need to wait that long.
Absolutely. Ideal is 7,500 kms. Hell, if it doesn't pinch, change every 5,000 (though thats overkill unless driving conditions are VERY severe).
GTO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st January 2009, 13:27   #42
DKG
Senior - BHPian
 
DKG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 3,706
Thanked: 928 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
I want a certain amount of wear & tear / bedding in during this period. That's why I don't use Mobil 1 for the initial 10,000 kms.
Rightly said. Highly recommended holding off till the first 10k. Invariably by the 10k mark the engine is noticeably smoother with all the rouhness worn out which is when the synthetic oil is of value for longetivity
DKG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st January 2009, 23:40   #43
Senior - BHPian
 
Raccoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Poona
Posts: 1,832
Thanked: 105 Times
Default

There is another issue here. A new engine gives out fine alluminium powder and possible other fine metallic grit. This makes frequent oil and oil filter change very important in the 1st few thousand km. So if you use synthetic, it would be quite expensive to dispose the oil so soon. Btw, some sources advice more agressive oil changes for the 1st few thousand km.

This is esp. true for bikes, where even most manufacturers advice 1st oil change at say around 500 - 700 km (approx), and the next one too, sooner than normal. Tho its advisable to do it earlier...

Of course the validity of all this is gonna change depending on what kind of manufacturing process the manufacturer is using. If you consider the high end stuff, like mentioned on the Mobil site, which comes with synth factory installed, then of course all this might not be valid.
Raccoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2009, 12:11   #44
GTO
Team-BHP Support
 
GTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 47,717
Thanked: 88,950 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raccoon View Post
There is another issue here. A new engine gives out fine alluminium powder and possible other fine metallic grit. This makes frequent oil and oil filter change very important in the 1st few thousand km.
Truly! Never ever miss the 1,000 km oil change.
GTO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2009, 12:29   #45
Distinguished - BHPian
 
sgiitk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Kanpur
Posts: 7,159
Thanked: 3,752 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
The key word is the 1st few thousand kms. I believe that an engine that is new is most vulnerable to friction and load and that is precisely when synth helps. It is after all the best lube you can get albeit for a price. Most people reckon that they need to do 10-15K kms on mineral before they switch. I dont believe we need to wait that long.

Regards,
During the 'running in period' if you use a synth you are likely to develop a glaze in the cylinders 'freezing' the engine in a semi- run-in position. The run-in period will then be very long. The exact point where one can consider the engine as run-in can always be debated.

Some years ago one of my friends had installed a magnetic drain plug on his nearly new engine (1st oil change). The amount of 'kerf' collected by the magnet in 5,000miles was an eye opener.
sgiitk is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Synthetic Oil in Bangalore epyupc Modifications & Accessories 50 8th December 2017 22:23
ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil GTO On modifying a car 4813 5th December 2017 12:41
Where to buy Mobil1 / Castrol Synthetic Oil in Mumbai? Max Shifting gears 27 14th June 2015 23:41
Oil change..Synthetic, where to source DRC Technical Stuff 21 2nd December 2007 15:00
Synthetic Oil karthik247 Technical Stuff 10 8th November 2005 18:02


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 10:24.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks