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Old 6th March 2006, 03:11   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BUSA
Man, this is surely confusing. SO what do you do when you run in a car be gentle or floor it like chetanhanda says?
hi BUSA .. I feel it should be done at 75% of the wide open throttle not 100% .. and with varying speeds.
This is what I mentioned in my post also ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by chetanhanda
I read the articles mentioned in the post .. I fully agree that running in should be aggressive. but not extreme.
It is confusing ..I was also wondering for along time , then I came across these articles and then I was convinced.
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Old 6th March 2006, 11:24   #32
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Ever wondered why the 1st oil change is at 1000kms, but all later oil changes are at intervals of 5000kms or more ?
The reason is that in a new engine, during the initial use, the moving parts need to bed-in and there is much more friction + wear-and-tear during the initial use of the engine, when compared to later usage. Which results in the lubricating oil having to work overtime, not to mention its contamination with metal particles that are a result of the interaction between the engine parts. This process would complete in a better/safer way, if the running-in procedures are followed (which are basically designed not to over-stress the engine and the parts in contact).
All the cars and bikes that we have bought have been run-in as per the manufacturers instructions and I feel they have been all the better due to that.
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Old 6th March 2006, 12:46   #33
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Now one more confusing and arguable factor...
In one of the articles it is mentioned that the oil needed to be dropped at 20 miles i.e approx 35km mark and then again at the 1000km mark..
So should it be done at the 35km mark or straight better at 1000km... Please advice as my new car is coming and i need to decide...
Cheers
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Old 6th March 2006, 12:55   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EVO6
In one of the articles it is mentioned that the oil needed to be dropped at 20 miles i.e approx 35km mark and then again at the 1000km mark..
Never heard of an oil change at 35kms. As far as I know it is usually around the 1000km mark or whenever the 1st free service is done.
BTW, check what the car manual has to say.
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Old 6th March 2006, 13:28   #35
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This was mentioned in the mototuneusa.com site by MOTOMAN

Quote " Change Your Oil Right Away !!
The best thing you can do for your engine is to change your oil and filter after the first 20 miles. Most of the wearing in process happens immediately, creating a lot of metal in the oil. Plus, the amount of leftover machining chips and other crud left behind in the manufacturing process is simply amazing !! You want to flush that stuff out before it gets recycled and embedded in the transmission gears, and oil pump etc...

Why do the manufacturers recommend waiting until 600 miles to
flush out all the loose metal ???

This is a good question ... " Unquote

This is the reason why I was asking the question... Dont think there is anything about breaking in mentioned in the user manual of the car...

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Last edited by EVO6 : 6th March 2006 at 13:29.
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Old 6th March 2006, 13:57   #36
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But EVO6 by the time you get delivery of your car it has already covered 35kms??
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Old 6th March 2006, 14:09   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supremeBaleno
As far as I know it is usually around the 1000km mark or whenever the 1st free service is done.
With the Fiesta, there is no oil change (or anything else for that matter) in the 1st service; they just check the fluid levels that's all. Came as a surprise to me as I've always been used to filters & oil being changed in the 1st service. New benchmarks.....
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Old 6th March 2006, 15:29   #38
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Are you sure about that ? Maybe they changed the oil and filter, but did not charge you for that. Some manufacturers do not charge for the oil and filter during free services. My friend who has a Corsa mentioned that they do not charge for these.
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Old 6th March 2006, 15:37   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supremeBaleno
Are you sure about that ? Maybe they changed the oil and filter, but did not charge you for that. Some manufacturers do not charge for the oil and filter during free services. My friend who has a Corsa mentioned that they do not charge for these.
Nah, I was standing around so.....the manual also gives a list of jobs & it was just check levels & top up for the 1st service.
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Old 6th March 2006, 16:57   #40
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Most modern engines are run-in on a dyno and this is different from normal day to day driving conditions. The idea of a run-in period (mostly the initial 1000kms or so) is to allow the engine to get used to these conditions without over stressing it and that is why the manuals often mention not to exceed certain rpm and to drive at varying speeds. Changing the oil/filter at 1000 kms is not necessary but advisable whether it be a Fiesta or Baleno or any other car. The difference may not be noticeable in the "feel" of the car if you do change the oil/filter or don't but mileage, longevity etc will be the benefit which is tangible.
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Old 6th March 2006, 17:02   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyd de Souza
Changing the oil/filter at 1000 kms is not necessary but advisable whether it be a Fiesta or Baleno or any other car.
but a dealer will go by what the manufacturer stipulates for each service and in the case of the Fiesta, Ford does not specify an oil or filter change so........as I said, this is definitely different from my earlier experiences with Ford (Ikon) or Maruti (Esteem or 800)
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Old 6th March 2006, 17:11   #42
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1st service there is no oil change or anything. Its just a service to check everything is going fine, nothing more. 10K service has oil changed.
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Old 6th March 2006, 19:05   #43
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Busa, guess you are being too generalistic.
For Maruti vehicles, the 1st service at 1000kms includes change of oil and oil filter. I know for sure as it was done for my Baleno and earlier for the M800 also.
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Old 7th March 2006, 15:12   #44
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Default Run-in has to be Moderately Hard

The initial oil fills is seldom the same formulation that is used for
subsequent fills, though it may be similar in most respects. It will
probably have less detergency, to allow whatever running-in needed, as
a start point.


The purpose of running-in engines is to reduce the severity of the
surface roughness of critical mating surfaces (journals / bearings,
rings / liners, etc.) thus increasing the contact area. Defects on
these surfaces, in new or re-built engines, have the effect of
reducing the actual contact areas (values of 1/1000 of the specified
design area have been measured). Improvement is achieved by
controlling the initial wear that takes place. The benefits include
reduced long-term wear and energy losses due to friction. Plateaux
honeing is one mechanical means of increasing the initial surface
contact area while significantly reducing the metal loss to oil. In
this case the inverted V shaped peaks in the surface metal have their
tops lopped off during manufacture rather than during the stage1 of
bedding-in.


Running-in occurs in two stages:


Stage 1: Removal of surface roughness. This surface roughness
is less pronounced, though still present in the best of newly built
engines.


Stage 2: Correction of surface imperfections (poor machining
tolerances and distortion)


After assembly most *diesel* engines are initially run up to full load
for periods which may last as long as 2.5 hours on test beds. Most of
the time, despite this severe running period Stage 1 is very often
incomplete. Note that this early bench running is at or near full
load. It therefore follows that Stage 2 will not have been reached by
the time the unit has been put into service. Unless this is properly
controlled, engine failures can result if the loading is increased too
fast or too slow.


Many petrol engines are not bench run-in, but benefit equally from
moderately hard early use but are least likely to achieve an effective
first stage due to the mistaken and historic belief in an excessively
gentle running-in. Such gentle treatment was needed historically
because of very wide production tollerances, which could mean that
bearing surfaces could have little effective clearance and could heat
and seize when stressed. There is still a concern here in the first
few hundred miles, hence the almost universal recommendation to allow
the engine to heat thoroughly before loading and not to rev
excessively in the first few hundred miles.... until stage 2 has been
well established.



Symptoms of failure, which some people mistakenly attribute to factors
other than the actual cause, include:

· Lack of power

· High oil consumption

· Oil exiting from the exhaust (breathing)
· Cylinder bore glazing


These are usually evident before 5000 miles or approximately 200 hours
have been completed if they are ever to become evident.


*It is well documented that if new or re-built engines are
operated under conditions of low load / constant speed, running-in can be prevented and bore glazing is the most likely outcome. This mode of operation is usually associated with cars, commercial vehicles, agricultural / plant equipment and generators.*
*Cylinder bore glazing is caused by a combination of iron oxides,
graphite and lubricant additives that form a hard chemical layer that
prevents the running-in process from taking place. The process occurs
before the piston rings generate load carrying surface plateaux or
optimum oil control capability.*


Bore glazing afflicts normally aspirated engines more than
turbo-charged versions that generate higher load factors and piston
ring pressures.


*Most piston rings are chrome plated and the best lubricant choice for
running-in would be a straight mineral oil. However, combustion
by-products coupled with high running temperatures have to be
effectively dealt with and require detergency and dispersancy
additives to provide engine protection.*

With thanks to Moris oil for the bones of this summary which has been substantially added to by a certain Mr. Huw for clarity

EXPERTS ARE ALL SAYING PUSH THAT ENGINE

kb

Last edited by kb100 : 7th March 2006 at 15:17.
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Old 12th March 2006, 21:34   #45
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Is there is different run ins for diesel and petrol engines?
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