Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Technical Stuff


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 20th February 2009, 18:50   #46
Senior - BHPian
 
aaggoswami's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Vadodara
Posts: 4,675
Thanked: 1,427 Times
Default

Well I love lugging. Specially the gurgling sound the engine makes is music to my ears. Its like having a faithful and reliable companion under the hood. Gives me satisfaction of driving a car.

I do it every time I drive a car or bike. Particularly the Maruti 800 is my favorite in this case. 97k+ kms on the odo, steep hill climb and three heavyweights in the car, I usually climb that in third gear and start climbing at 20kmph even if I could have started at higher speed. I even reduce the speed if I am at higher speed.

Baleno comes next in the line. The long stroke motor has awesome torque so its a bit tough to get this one to lugging, but its now easy for me. The sound that comes is nice, the engine struggling to move you is simply fun to have. I even slow down on the hills just to enjoy this.

Coming to bikes, the Suzuki Zeus also has a good bottom end, but I lug it daily, I enjoy it and love the struggling motor and sound that is accompanied.

I know its not good for the engine, but its matter of fun you want. I think that the damage done in high gear + low speed scenario than in low gear + high speed one.
aaggoswami is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 20th February 2009, 20:18   #47
BHPian
 
watashi75's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 518
Thanked: 7 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shan2nu View Post
I was refering to your statement below :

"Without load conditions of course lugging is more fuel efficient."

Without load, 1500 in 3rd would be more FE.
Ok I stand corrected there!
watashi75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th February 2009, 20:51   #48
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 27
Thanked: Once
Default

I try lugging when I drive alone but when the car is fully loaded, I need to drive the car with the right gear to extract torque ( required for the addtional load).
Besides that who wants some snide comments like "wrong gear buddy!"
Swaroop77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th February 2009, 21:13   #49
BHPian
 
revhappy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Singapore
Posts: 307
Thanked: Once
Default

Hi Guys,

I am driving Indica Vista TDi with 3200 kms on the odo, I downshift at 1000 rpm and upshift at 2000 rpm.
Am I lugging?

If I dont upshift at 2000 rpm I can feel the turbo and it feels nice but around 2500 rpm the engine makes too much of a racket and due to noise I get scared that I am hurting the engine and upshift immediately at 2000 rpm.

I cant even imagine how it feels like at 3000 rpm. Not sure if I am doing the right thing.
I am currently getting a mileage of 14.5 kmpl in the city.
Please let me know if this can improve if do delayed upshifts at say 3000 rpm and downshifts at 2000 rpm

Last edited by revhappy : 20th February 2009 at 21:17.
revhappy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th February 2009, 23:23   #50
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Thad E Ginathom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chennai
Posts: 7,847
Thanked: 7,246 Times
Default

2,500 RPM shouldn't hurt any engine, and the turbo is there to be used!

Its been said before --- but there is no RPM at which to change gear, nor any specific combination that will be called lugging. It depends on the circumstances, the gradient, what you need to get out of your car at the time, etc.
Thad E Ginathom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th February 2009, 23:52   #51
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: NAMMA BENGALURU
Posts: 5,613
Thanked: 2,460 Times
Default

Whoa,

We are making so much noise than the engines do.

There are so many schumi's / Massa's and Hamiltons out here in India. I've seen none drive slow, even people aged beyond 65 drive faster.

No offenses to anyone. Everyone everywhere i've noticed have been riding better barring a few "L" boards.

Lugging is actually a rare disease you can find now on Indian Automotive roads
PAVAN KADAM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st February 2009, 13:57   #52
GTO
Team-BHP Support
 
GTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 47,749
Thanked: 89,408 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
For eg. the Baleno has really tall gearing and you can putter around in the city in 5th at 35kmph without engine complaining.
More than the tall gearing, that's your flat torque curve in action.
GTO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st February 2009, 15:04   #53
Distinguished - BHPian
 
condor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Speed-brkr City
Posts: 10,750
Thanked: 4,342 Times
Default

Quote:
PAVAN KADAM : Lugging is actually a rare disease you can find now on Indian Automotive roads
Actually, Pavan, your post indicates you have not understood what lugging is. Suggest you go out on the streets, listen to the engines - from the cabbies to the execs : it is a very common practice.

Being a Schumi has nothing to do with lugging or not lugging. That 'Schumi' will be the one who'll be bragging about how his car pulls in 4th from 20, all the way to 120 & beyond - and how he does not need to change gears to beat everyone else on the road to the next red light.
condor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st February 2009, 17:02   #54
Distinguished - BHPian
 
phamilyman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Gurgaon
Posts: 5,601
Thanked: 3,452 Times
Default

Pavan - cmon, lugging =any logan cab today!
phamilyman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd February 2009, 05:00   #55
BHPian
 
Atlblkz06's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 166
Thanked: 6 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
Well I love lugging. Specially the gurgling sound the engine makes is music to my ears. Its like having a faithful and reliable companion under the hood. Gives me satisfaction of driving a car.

I do it every time I drive a car or bike. Particularly the Maruti 800 is my favorite in this case. 97k+ kms on the odo, steep hill climb and three heavyweights in the car, I usually climb that in third gear and start climbing at 20kmph even if I could have started at higher speed. I even reduce the speed if I am at higher speed.

Baleno comes next in the line. The long stroke motor has awesome torque so its a bit tough to get this one to lugging, but its now easy for me. The sound that comes is nice, the engine struggling to move you is simply fun to have. I even slow down on the hills just to enjoy this.

Coming to bikes, the Suzuki Zeus also has a good bottom end, but I lug it daily, I enjoy it and love the struggling motor and sound that is accompanied.

I know its not good for the engine, but its matter of fun you want. I think that the damage done in high gear + low speed scenario than in low gear + high speed one.
I hope this is joke...

You're welcome to do that all you want as long as you acknowledge that you're actually reducing your car's mileage by doing that.

Here is why I would NOT do that.

With a set air/fuel mixture, a set amount of energy is produced assuming even combustion. When the engine is at the correct rpm range, the energy of detonation is transferred to the pistons when they are pushed down. This also increases the cylinder volume and decreases cylinder pressure.

However when the rpm range is low, the speed at which the piston moves is reduced and even though the fuel burns, the piston has not made it to the bottom yet. Since the piston is not at BDC, the cylinder pressure is higher. This pressure can cause damage to your engine and it will also be turned into heat. This heat can also cause predetonation. Fuel will autoignite as long as there is enough pressure and/or temperature. this haphazard predotanation/uneven detonation/multiple flame-fronts can push the piston against the cylinder walls and cause damage. This is called piston slap - and it can score your clinder walls and cause blow-by. When it gets to this stage, you'll need an engine rebuild.

To the guy that's afraid of going over 2500rpm:
No, you wont hurt the engine. Thats what the redline is for.

Last edited by Atlblkz06 : 22nd February 2009 at 05:07.
Atlblkz06 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd February 2009, 07:13   #56
Senior - BHPian
 
vivekiny2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: cincinnati, jabalpur,chennai
Posts: 1,241
Thanked: 163 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlblkz06 View Post
I hope this is joke...

You're welcome to do that all you want as long as you acknowledge that you're actually reducing your car's mileage by doing that.

Here is why I would NOT do that.
that's a lot of theory.


EDIT: why should somebody acknowledge something that is not necessarily true? you are discussing both efficiency and safety/longevity of engine?


now, how many failed engines have you seen because of this?

remember, the engines are mechanical parts with a lot of safety tolerance.

Quote:
To the guy that's afraid of going over 2500rpm:
No, you wont hurt the engine. Thats what the redline is for.
you can be equally careless about lugging.

Last edited by vivekiny2k : 22nd February 2009 at 07:16.
vivekiny2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd February 2009, 08:02   #57
Senior - BHPian
 
greenhorn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: TN-14
Posts: 6,839
Thanked: 1,318 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by revhappy View Post
Hi Guys,

I am driving Indica Vista TDi with 3200 kms on the odo, I downshift at 1000 rpm and upshift at 2000 rpm.
Am I lugging?

If I dont upshift at 2000 rpm I can feel the turbo and it feels nice but around 2500 rpm the engine makes too much of a racket and due to noise I get scared that I am hurting the engine and upshift immediately at 2000 rpm.

I cant even imagine how it feels like at 3000 rpm. Not sure if I am doing the right thing.
I am currently getting a mileage of 14.5 kmpl in the city.
Please let me know if this can improve if do delayed upshifts at say 3000 rpm and downshifts at 2000 rpm
Revhappy, keep the revs between 1500 and 2700. there isnt much fun over 3000 as torque falls off. 1800~2300 is where there is the most fun, assuming your engine is in the same state of tune as my indica turbo
greenhorn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd February 2009, 08:07   #58
Distinguished - BHPian
 
condor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Speed-brkr City
Posts: 10,750
Thanked: 4,342 Times
Default

Quote:
vivekiny2k : that's a lot of theory.

EDIT: why should somebody acknowledge something that is not necessarily true? you are discussing both efficiency and safety/longevity of engine?

now, how many failed engines have you seen because of this?

remember, the engines are mechanical parts with a lot of safety tolerance.

you can be equally careless about lugging.
@Vivek, in way that is a lot of theory people like @Atlblkz06 & me, who dont lug their engines - and hence that situation wouldnt be applicable for us. And we would not have failed engines because of that.

What is it that's not true ? Why cant efficiency & longevitiy be discussed together ?

Let's take my truck. I dont lug, I maintain a healthy gear-speed ratio at all times. I get abt 9.5-10kmpl in city today. That's what I got from early days : and I would bet on it that I will still get the same mileage down the years, need lesser engine work also during that time.

The safety tolerance of engine & it's mechanical parts is what would be keeping these lugged engines going - but doesnt mean that the engine must be pushed ot it's limits. Remember : making the engine do a gear-speed combination at the low end is at the limit because any slower and you may have to drop 2 gears.

Note: Honestly, I am yet to comprehend fully the situation inside the engine as described here. Nothing wrong in @Atlblkz06 using theory here - how else would one explain what's happening & why something shouldnt be done ?
condor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd February 2009, 08:35   #59
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 3,083
Thanked: 252 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by condor View Post
What is it that's not true ? Why cant efficiency & longevitiy be discussed together ?
Efficient operating point and longevity of an engine go hand in hand.

An engine that is being lugged is running in an 'unhealthy condition' known as 'thermal overload'!
anupmathur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd February 2009, 09:38   #60
Senior - BHPian
 
vivekiny2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: cincinnati, jabalpur,chennai
Posts: 1,241
Thanked: 163 Times
Default

alright, I should have been more clear. I was startled by the fact that

the matter after
Quote:
Here is why I would NOT do that.
referred to safety and longevity of the engine. while it gave me an impression that he was going to give an explanation for the efficiency.


Quote:
@Vivek, in way that is a lot of theory people like @Atlblkz06 & me, who dont lug their engines - and hence that situation wouldnt be applicable for us. And we would not have failed engines because of that.
i never said you would.

But those who have lugged the engines also have not had failed engines either. but most of the people are totally bent on making us belive that we will have failed engines. give me some examples. all of us own machiines and operate them based on our experience and intuition.


Quote:
Note: Honestly, I am yet to comprehend fully the situation inside the engine as described here. Nothing wrong in @Atlblkz06 using theory here - how else would one explain what's happening & why something shouldnt be done ?
yes, but it's also a good idea to hear other's point of view and see some real life cases before declaring that they stressing their engines to death based on that theory.

@anupmathur, true.

all of us load our engines to different levels and types. Some of it may fall into overload if such a boundary is defined somewhere.

EDIT: could you give me a source to support the following

Quote:
An engine that is being lugged is running in an 'unhealthy condition' known as 'thermal overload'!

Last edited by vivekiny2k : 22nd February 2009 at 09:44.
vivekiny2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Caution! Rusted wheel lug nuts ece2k2 Tyre & Alloy wheel Section 48 24th June 2015 18:41
Forged Aluminium Lug Nuts - are they safe? Chewbacca Tyre & Alloy wheel Section 13 5th February 2013 13:53
Lug nuts - How many do you really need? McLaren Rulez Technical Stuff 21 24th September 2012 15:34
Adapter for Weird Lug Nuts Tassem Tyre & Alloy wheel Section 14 18th January 2012 10:18
Alternate Tread Lug Wear Android Tyre & Alloy wheel Section 3 26th September 2008 21:46


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 10:25.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks