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Old 15th December 2010, 17:43   #151
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Default Re: Tata Sierra Turbo: Queries

Quote:
kaustubh_vaze (Tata Sierra Turbo: Queries) : I want the same front crash guard in black powder coating.
I have a very similar one - in black. Mine's a GoldSun brand. Check out the pics of my Sumo.

Quote:
kaustubh_vaze (Tata Sierra Turbo: Queries) : we need to hunt for the Victa DI turbo engine + GB.
Your current engine is an IDI. Do you want to move to DI ? And why ?
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Old 15th December 2010, 18:16   #152
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Default Re: Tata Sierra Turbo: Queries

@Condor -
Nice crash guard. I could only locate a lot of Stainless Steel plated ones but not a black one.
Coming to the engine -
Firstly, mine is a NA IDI. Cannot turbo it for power. The DI will be newer(hence better) technology from TML. I know you had suggested against it but I like the Diesel clatter a bit. . Plus it has more torque than the Turbo IDI. Plus it should give better mileage compared to the IDI (hearsay).
How do you think will it perform off road?
Step 1 - Engine + GB
Step 2 - Cosmetics + Tinkering
Step 3 - 4X4

I think Step 1 & 3 are linked so it might be 2-1-3 or 1-3-2, but would like to know which engine+GB would be a best fit for conversion later on?
Even a Scorpio engine + GB is not ruled out. But since its Tata, everything TATA will bring better results and will be reliable.

I am also approaching a friend's father who works in TML to figure out if I can source it from TML directly.
BTW, even in its current form, the car just lunges forward from stand still. It lacks the outright power is a different story. But the bottom end torque is nice.
I used to love the way the Sumo used to heave-ho and raise its front in the first gear when starting.
Regards,
Kaustubh

Last edited by kaustubh_vaze : 15th December 2010 at 18:22.
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Old 15th December 2010, 19:13   #153
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Default Re: Tata Sierra Turbo: Queries

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kaustubh_vaze (Tata Sierra Turbo: Queries) : Firstly, mine is a NA IDI. Cannot turbo it for power.
That's where I would suggest an IDI TCIC from TML itself. IDI for IDI, but with TCIC. The 90bhp / 189 Nm will be good enough to drive the 1600 kg Sierra. Remember, the same engine was also used in the Safari. On the Sierra, it should give very decent power.

Quote:
kaustubh_vaze (Tata Sierra Turbo: Queries) : The DI will be newer(hence better) technology from TML. I know you had suggested against it but I like the Diesel clatter a bit. . Plus it has more torque than the Turbo IDI. Plus it should give better mileage compared to the IDI (hearsay).
Diesel Clatter ? I can understand

DI may be a stronger engine. But the TCIC IDI 2L engine is a tested one - sufficiently refined. There are far more of these in use than the 3.0L turbo DI engine.

The 2L TCIC IDI engine has already been tested & used in the Sierra. That's one more reason why I suggest only the 2L engine, and not the 3.0L version.

Quote:
How do you think will it perform off road? : Should check with actual owners.
Step 1 - Engine + GB : I still suggest the IDI TCIC
Step 2 - Cosmetics + Tinkering : should not be a problem
Step 3 - 4X4 : study if the components are available.
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Old 16th December 2010, 11:51   #154
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Default Re: Tata Sierra Turbo: Queries

@Condor - Agree with your views. Will keep an eye open for a IDI TCIC + Safari GB. 4X4 will come at a later date if at all possible. Lets see if I can source a Safari LSD for the Sierra. Should make it a bit more off road worthy I guess.
If the Sierra is converted to a 4X4 it gives us:
1. a Jeep like stance (my perspective)
2. Cruising capacity to go to OTRs
3. A little above average off road capacity keeping in mind how the Safari's fair in OTRs abroad.
If you viewed the video I posted some time earlier, you will understand what I mean.

Then get a roll cage and snorkel designed from Allan, have A/T tyres and have a blast!!
Regards,
Kaustubh

Last edited by kaustubh_vaze : 16th December 2010 at 11:53.
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Old 16th December 2010, 15:24   #155
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Default Re: Tata Sierra Turbo: Queries

@ sierrakamat: That is one sweet ride dude! Could you scan and post a clearer picture of it? It looks like an NA version to me, guessing from the rear bumper and headlights. Those alloys give the car a killer look. Is that the metallic military green colour that was offered on the Sierra Turbo?

That crash-guard is the same one featured in the Sierra Turbo TV ad, where a bunch of guys cordon off a space in an open parking lot with a chain link fence before a dude in a dandy suit rolls up and parks his maroon Sierra Turbo in it, followed by the tagline "It's not owned, It's possessed". Just loved that ad, and that particular car too. Incidentally, the ad car looks like one of those rare 4x4 Sierra Turbos. I wonder where it is today.



@ kaustubh:

Even I haven't seen a black (powder-coated) crash guard on any Tata Sierra/Estate/207 DI till date. They are all chrome-plated. But if your are keen, you can always buy a chrome-plated one and get it powder-coated. Or, you can try and find an accessory-seller who can get it made-to-order for you from his supplier.

As for the engine, here are some hard figures about the engines that you are considering:

3.0 L DI Turbo
--------------
Power: 70 PS @ 3000 rpm
Max. Torque: 22.7 Kg-m (223Nm) @1600 - 2200 rpm

2.0 L IDI TCIC
--------------
Power: 90 PS @ 4300 rpm
Max. Torque: 19 Kg-m (190Nm) @ 2000-3000 rpm

Does anyone know if these 2 Sumo variants come with the same gearbox and identical ratios? After all, these figures make sense only if they are translated into something meaningful "at-the wheels", and this work is done by the GB.

If you are looking at some good long-distance highway cruising with power-on-tap, then the 2.0 IDI is better. Fundamentally, it's a good all-rounder, and a very good proven workhorse. And it's plug-n-play in a Sierra.

If you really need good low-end grunt and the "heave-ho" nose-lifting torque , then the 3.0 DI is for you.

Do bear in mind though, that 70 PS of peak power is just about equivalent to the 68 PS that your existing engine churns out, so if you say your existing engine lacks outright power, then this one won't do any better. Things you need to consider:

1. Is the 3.0 L DI a direct fit in the Sierra, or bodily modifications are required to fit it in?

2. It's noisy and vibrates a lot. Has that 15-year old body been designed to withstand them?

3. It's definitely heavier than the 2.0 L. And I assume the difference is quite a bit, considering the 50% jump in capacity.

4. Is that body up to the task after all these years? As it is, something or the other is always rattling in old TATA cars (at least in mine, no offense). I can't imagine what would happen if I were to put that engine under the hood.

Lastly, the difference in fuel efficiency of both engines should be negligible.

Besides these 2 engines, I have heard a lot about Toyota engines being used in the Sierra. Abroad, the 2.0L Turbo was a favorite, in India I think it is the Qualis engine. There is a guy named Abbas on this forum who has done this conversion to his Sierra. You can check with him. Do mind that as of today, you can find only old, used and re-conned Qualis engines in the market. Instead, you might want to find out if the Innova engine can be used, I have no idea about this at all.

I may be wrong here, but I think the chassis of the RWD Sierra is not compatible with a 4x4 setup. There are quite a few posts on this subject, including this one, from this very thread (post #2):

Quote:
Originally Posted by veyron1 View Post

... Try procuring a 4x4 Sierra (easier said than done, I tried for about 6 months with no luck). The Borg-warner transfer case and mechanicals will cost northwards of 2 Lakh rupees. Excluding suspension and labour, of course.

... The 4x4 Sierra & Safari share identical rear diff housings. The track, however, is different. IIRC, the 4x2 Sierra/NA Sierra rear track was at 1450, and the Safari/ Sierra 4x4 track stood at 1470 mm. Front's at 1500, so I guess that shouldn't matter.

The Safari's LSD is of mechanical/clutch type, and the entire assembly costs upwards of 20,000. Housing, driveshafts, pinions/gears, everything.

And yes, only the 4x4 Safaris come with LSDs.
Also, this one:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-te...ml#post1489952 (4x4 Help needed)

Also, I think the gear-boxes for 2WD and 4WD are different. So, if you are still keen on doing the 4x4 conversion, I suggest you do not change the GB now. Instead, you can go for the LSD. You can change the GB when you do the conversion.

Bottomline: For the same amount of money you will end up spending on converting your Sierra, get a good MM550 or Gypsy for OTRs, and modify it to your satisfaction (there are a few available in TBHP Classifieds too). It will save you a lot of heartache and headache.

Let the Sierra rule the tarmac, where it belongs.

EDIT: You mentioned getting the fuel pump "serviced" in one of your previous posts. Care to elaborate the exact nature of this activity? Will your mechanic also be "calibrating" it? Fuel pump calibration has to be done on a test bench. I have heard that there are only a few Bosch service centers that have the capability and expertise to do this. In case you are getting this done, do let me know where, and how much it costs.

- Bullitt.

Last edited by Bullitt : 16th December 2010 at 15:42.
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Old 16th December 2010, 16:01   #156
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Default Re: Tata Sierra Turbo: Queries

Jaydeep,
I think I will stick to the IDI Turbo. Condor and you, both have valid points there which I cannot ignore. So the IDI turbo it is.
Your suggestion for GB is valid. I will update the GB later on.
I also need to call the guy at Pandit Auto and see if the conversion can be done at their end.

The fuel pump was leaking diesel and the car was not idling at all. Any Lucas service centre can get the pump fixed and calibrated for you. There are a few in my area. Shinde auto is one of them on Satara Rd. Costs around 4-5K for that. Actual costs I will let you know when I get the car back.

Finally - I want a 4X4 Sierra. Lets see how we can go about it.
Regards,
Kaustubh
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Old 16th December 2010, 17:41   #157
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Default Re: Tata Sierra Turbo: Queries

@ Kaustubh:

If you have any friends/relatives in UK/Ireland, you can ask them to source a few parts of the 4x4 Sierra for you. The car was sold as the "Tata Gurkha" out there, and quite a few of them were actually sold. There are a few UK-based websites that claim to stock and sell used parts for this car, but I'm not sure about their reliability. Here is one I found using Google:

Cheap Car Parts & Accessories, Engines, 4x4 Parts. Used Euro & Jap Car Parts From Online Car Breakers

I am not sure about import and customs duties/levies etc. You will have to do some research on that.

I recently read on TBHP about a guy in Goa who bought a wrecked MB and a wrecked Nissan X-Trail for dirt cheap, then brought them back to mint condition by buying cheap parts in the UK and bringing them here to repair those wrecks. It seems both cars together cost him under 12 Lakhs!

Linky:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/super-...edes-w203.html (A Gamble that Paid off: C-Class Mercedes W203)

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/modifi...-i-bought.html (Nissan X-trail When I bought It)

Maybe you can try something similar with the 4x4 Sierra.

- Bullitt.
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Old 17th December 2010, 12:30   #158
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Default Re: Tata Sierra Turbo: Queries

Jaydeep,
Wow....this is one amazing source. I have made a parts request for Side steps, front axles and 4X4 transfer case on 247parts. Lets see if I get a quote on this one!

Regards,
Kaustubh
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Old 18th December 2010, 09:25   #159
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Default Re: Tata Sierra Turbo: Queries

kaustubh the idea of a 4x4 though very appealing may not give you the desirable results because the engine and gb even of the turbo vehicle lacks grunt you might end up disappointed after all the time and money you would end up spending on that project.
the guard on my vehicle is available at kurla for about 2k with fitting charges.
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Old 20th December 2010, 16:23   #160
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Default Re: Tata Sierra Turbo: Queries

@SierraKamat,
Lets meet up Allan together if time permits and see what he can suggest for the Sierra. If possible, we will get one of our Sierras along in January.

Regards,
Kaustubh
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Old 21st December 2010, 08:29   #161
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Default Re: Tata Sierra Turbo: Queries

kaustubh i am avoiding the urge to meet Allan for the last one year to prevent myself from buying a mm540 and facing the wrath of the family but if you insist so be it.
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Old 21st December 2010, 19:08   #162
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Default Re: Tata Sierra Turbo: Queries

Hey guys,
An update - Just received my car back with the fuel pump serviced. Have not driven it yet, still at office. Need to do a loooooonnnnggg drive to check reliability.

I happened to meet the previous owner of my car this weekend and discussed the technicalities about the car I bought from him. Just to give a brief background, he works in some design firm that designs and supplies OEM parts to some renowned auto manufacturers.
According to him the NA Sierra has always been 4X4 and Turbo compatible. The 4X4 Sumo's parts are compatible with the Sierra since both are based on the same platform.

So this gives me a hint to find parts in Mumbai during the visit.

Regards,
Kaustubh
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Old 25th December 2010, 11:59   #163
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Default Re: Tata Sierra Turbo: Queries

Project Sierra Starts from today. These are the pics as of today. Any suggestions are welcome. Pockets are deep enough (atleast for this project !)

Coming up

- Tyres. Yes after being on the lookout for months. I have not yet got 225/70 R15 in Michelin. Any tips ?

- Paint job. Plan for the new Honda Civic Mettalic grey.

- Alloys. Neo 15"

- Interiors and replace the V kool
Attached Thumbnails
Tata Sierra Turbo: Queries-sierra2.jpg  

Tata Sierra Turbo: Queries-sierra1.jpg  

Tata Sierra Turbo: Queries-sierra3.jpg  

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Old 27th December 2010, 12:49   #164
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Default Re: Tata Sierra Turbo: Queries

@ Kaustubh,
Did you get the quotes you requested from that website? And how is the beast doing, now that the fuel pump has been serviced?

@ Saptarshi_B,
The Michelin website shows that they do have the 225/70 R15 size available in Latitude Cross. Perhaps you can try enquiring at a Michelin Priority Partner showroom. On second thoughts, since you are planning for new alloys, why not upgrade to 16-inch a la Safari? You can probably go for 235/60 R16 Michelin Latitude Tour HP with 16" alloys. I think this requires minor alteration inside the wheel well to prevent the wider tyre from rubbing on the inside.

As for the color, in my opinion dude, your beast looks fabulous in that timeless classic Ferrari Red colour. It has aged a bit, but nothing that a good car detailing job can't fix. At the most, a re-spray using the same color will do. If I were you, I would retain that beautiful red color and save the cash, then use it for some cool accessories like a bull bar/crash guard, some cool fogs, side steps, Sumo Victa ORVMs, roof-rails and the works. Do get the bumpers re-painted though, especially the rear one, looks more grey than black.

Also, the A/C in the Sierra is not a great performer. The metallic grey attracts a lot of heat, making the A/C's job even harder. Summers will be really hard to go by. And there you have another reason to retain the existing color.

Do let us know your plans for the interiors. The V-Kool is a good idea. Alternately, you can try Garware or 3M. I have heard these are good too. Do use a dark shade on the rear side glasses to keep the sun out.

And hey, that is one of the most original looking Sierras I have ever seen. Keep it up!

@ All Sierra Owners from Mumbai and Pune:

Let's all plan to meet up sometime, so that we take a look at each other's rides and catch up with tips 'n' tricks to maintain our Sierras. What say?

@ sierrakamat: You need to buy a Sierra to be eligible for attending this meet. On second thoughts, you can be the external "Subject Matter Expert" and consultant for the rest of us. Kidding...

- Bullitt.
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Old 27th December 2010, 13:31   #165
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Default Retain Red, Reject Roof Rails. Please.

Quote:
Bullitt (Tata Sierra Turbo: Queries) : .. your beast looks fabulous in that timeless classic Ferrari Red colour. It has aged a bit, but nothing that a good car detailing job can't fix.

.. save the cash, then use it for .. roof-rails and the works.
+1 to the Color. @Saptarshi, I second Bullitt on this one.

But roof rails - Please DONT !
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