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Old 21st April 2011, 07:05   #361
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Default Re: Tata Sierra Turbo: Queries

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Originally Posted by Bullitt View Post
@ abhishek2222: Thanks for the suggestion, I would really like to get this done, as I have to maintain 2 keys for this purpose.

About the fuel lid, did you use the Tata Sumo Victa kit for this purpose?

I am assuming you also replaced the original fuel lid, since it has a hole for the lock. Or did you just weld the hole shut and repaint it?

it was the original fuel lid that was welded shut and repainted with some minor mod done to make it lock on to the body its a wire kit a steel cable from the lid running to the driver seat where another weld holds it in place. its very very simple and easy to get done. i can't exactly tell you how much it costs as i got it done when i had the entire car repainted a year back.will try to take a picture and post it later if its of any help.
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Old 21st April 2011, 09:11   #362
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Default Re: Tata Sierra Turbo: Queries

jaydeep bardahl/stp/nulon are all additives which make the engine run smoother they all are to be added at the time of oil change and do make a perceptible difference in the smoothness provided your piston rings are not worn out.as i had said earlier your FIP needs to be reset to get rid of the smoke also what we used to do here was get the entire silencer filled with water and surf detergent wait for about 15 min and then rev the engine till all the carbon was cleaned up (believe me its a sight)and it works.the dashboard regardless of which paint is used is prone to scratches and looks UGLY after sometime do not do this mod at all.
kaustubh i am not tempting you with another vehicle but cost wise it will be a good decision
SIERRA owners generally like to get down from the vehicle SWAGGER to the fuel lid and open it manually so that everyone knows who the monster belongs to so this remote lid opener thingy is a waste .
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Old 25th April 2011, 12:21   #363
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Default Re: Tata Sierra Turbo: Queries

@bullitt you're welcome
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Old 25th April 2011, 14:44   #364
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Default Re: Tata Sierra Turbo: Queries

@Bullitt - Nulon is an oil additive and has nothing to do whether your vehicle is a petrol or a diesel one.

@Kamat saheb - Really appreciate the concern wrt cost. Problem is, after having spent close to 90K and getting her to speed, I dont feel like parting with her. So I am planning to use it as a base vehicle and build it from there.

Regards,
Kaustubh
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Old 29th April 2011, 13:40   #365
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Default Re: Tata Sierra Turbo: Queries

OK - One query.
I had changed oil some 2500 Kms (4 months) back. Today morning I checked oil level and it was the same BUT the oil was very black and appeared like a paste with no stickyness or flow. Maybe the fresh oil has cleaned some of the sludge from the old engine. Should I change the engine oil immediately?
Opened the coolant reservoir and radiator and founf the level topped out and no oil. So vital signs are good.
So Kamat saheb - The engine is not drinking oil so rings should be good?
Maybe the oil is the reason for engine overheating?

Your thoughts?

Regards,
Kaustubh
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Old 29th April 2011, 15:46   #366
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Default Re: Tata Sierra Turbo: Queries

@Kaustubh, will be good to change the oil. The oil must never feel like a paste. Pls go for a good enging-oil flush when you are removing the oil that is there in the engine right now.
Eg: Arbo or STP etc

Black color is ok. But it should never be thick.
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Old 29th April 2011, 17:03   #367
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Default Re: Tata Sierra Turbo: Queries

Thanks @Condor. So next question, if there is no excessive smoking, oil levels are fine and no oil in coolant, then engine is OK?

Regards,
Kaustubh
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Old 29th April 2011, 18:31   #368
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Default Re: Tata Sierra Turbo: Queries

I wouldnt say that yet

Let's go step-by-step. A flush is recommended as we reach the 70-80k mark. Removing sludge will help the engine function more freely, and hence releasing some power & reducing heating. FE & power should increase marginally.

Suggest you do this, before you try anything else. Flushing the engine is a non-invasive process, so easy to do also.
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Old 30th April 2011, 09:53   #369
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Default Re: Tata Sierra Turbo: Queries

yes flush the engine and get the oil pump opened along with the sump and get them manually cleaned should solve the problem.in the absence of back compression from the engine and the oil levels ok the piston rings are in good order.
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Old 1st May 2011, 09:31   #370
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Default Re: Tata Sierra Turbo: Queries

All Sierra Owners,

I was on a lookout for a jeep to be used as a second car. During my hunt I stumbled upon a 1998 Tata Sierra Turbo in maroon (brick like) color. The odo shows 84k kms. It is kept with a dealer, second owner and the dealer is quoting 90k for the same. The body line seems to be in good shape. The beast started in the first crank after heating the engine twice - it was not a confidence inspiring start though. There was no black smoke and the engine was sounding OK on idle. The car had the following issues:

1) The gear shift was very hard
2) Power windows were hardly working and somehow managed to close and open them.
3) The wiring was completely haywire loose ends all across the dashboard
4) The upholstery was wearing off
5) Heavy wobbling during a short test drive

The reason I am interested in this bull is that it is a complete SUV with all creature comforts and can be used as a daily drive unlike MM jeeps (i am considering rebuilding a used MM jeep). I have seen people rebuilding completely worn off jeeps in non running condition and bringing them to glory. If this can be done with MM jeeps which are 20 - 25 years old why cant it be done to a tata sierra which has a turbo engine and is only about a decade old? I am told it takes somewhere around 80 - 90K to rebuild a M&M jeep. I am willing to spend this amount on a tata sierra to bring it back to glory and its already in running condition. Questins for sierra owners:

1) Can the wiring be redone completely or stock wiring still available with TATA for the sierra - how much would it cost?
2) Are the engine spare parts still available for the turbo sierra?
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Old 2nd May 2011, 09:08   #371
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Default Re: Tata Sierra Turbo: Queries

automotive do post some pictures of the car you intend buying so the we can have a better view of things to come,in mumbai everything is available so just check with your local guys whether the parts are in stock new/old and then go for it if you have the time money and patience to restore the beast.
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Old 2nd May 2011, 12:15   #372
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Default Re: Tata Sierra Turbo: Queries

@ Kaustubh: Refer to this link

Car Bibles : The Engine Oil Bible

Please read the section "Black Death for the 21st century". I think the problem you are facing is quite similar. Under the section "Curing Sludge", the author has also suggested the same remedy that condor has suggested, an engine flush. But at the same time, the author also said this

"... flushing the engine might be the only cure, but that could also cause even more problems. If flushing the engine results in bits of sludge getting lodged where they can do more damage, you're actually worse off."

So, care should be taken while flushing the engine.

In the very same section "Curing Sludge", it has also been suggested that after-market additives might be responsible for causing the engine oil to change into sludge. Nulon, perhaps??

As already recommended, lets proceed step-by-step. Flush the engine first, then fill up with good quality mineral oil. Avoid synthetic. And no additives. Then we'll see.

Also read: United Diesel UK – Diesel Engine Smoke Explained

@ Auto Motive: Welcome to Team-BHP, the home of petrol (and diesel) heads! If you are looking for info on the Tata Sierra, you have come to the right place.

From your query, I gather that you are undecided between the MM jeep (540/550) and the Tata Sierra. Now, the problem here is, we cannot compare apples and oranges. These are 2 entirely different vehicles with different abilities and purposes.

Most people buy and restore MM jeeps (540/550 4x4) so they can use them to go mud-bashing at OTRs. If that is the purpose you have in mind, forget the Sierra. Even a 4x4 Sierra would fear to tread in most of the places, where a 4x4 MM jeep or Gypsy could do a calypso. Its simply too overweight. The Sierra works best on-the-road, that is its home. It can take you in great (air-conditioned) comfort to places where most sedans/hatchbacks would not go, like our broken, pot-holed or non-existent rural roads, but thats about it.

Where the Sierra scores is in it's SUV looks, it's "2-door and large glass" uniqueness and in it's macho "dont-mess-with-me" image. Its the king of the urban jungle. Everyone, read everyone, from cyclists to trucks, makes way for a Sierra. And, except for ABS and airbags, it offers all the creature comforts that one can find in a modern day car, like tilt-adjust power steering, power windows, A/C, rear wash-wipe etc etc.

Buying and owning a Sierra is something only a die-hard Sierra fan-boy can do. It is not a "fill it, shut it, forget it" experience (to quote Hero Honda). It demands attention. There are always niggles, you have to possess the time and patience to sort them out. If you have these, go right ahead. (BTW, I believe this is also true for MM jeeps.)

Lastly, a good MM jeep can also be used as a daily drive. There are many on this forum who actually do so. On this forum, you will find excellent examples of MM jeeps/MS Gypsies retro-fitted with A/C and P/S, which are the basic requirements to make a them daily runners.

Here are a few points in response to those you have posted about the Sierra you saw:

1. Hard gear shifts are not uncommon on Sierras, most will have it on cold start. The hardness goes away once the car has run for a few kilometers. Blame it on the ancient, truck-like G76 gearbox.

2. Power windows are slow and noisy. If its too painful, the window winder mechanism needs lubrication, and the car probably needs a new battery. If nothing works, it can easily be converted to manual.

3. The loose wires may be the result of a poor ICE installation attempt. That said, the Sierra has its own set of electrical gremlins. It always had blown fuses/relays, causing electrical things to shut down unexpectedly. Many Sierra owners used to get the fuses by-passed completely with pieces of wire, causing more problems. Peek under the bonnet, if you see a lot of cut and taped wire, avoid.

4. Worn upholstery is expected. Focus on the front seats, particularly the passenger seat. The recliner mechanism and the sliding rails should work. The Sierra had this unique fold-and-slide-forward seat for ingress/egress to the rear seat. In nine out of ten cars, this will be broken/jammed or dysfunctional. Replacement is the only solution.

5. Heavy wobbling indicates worn out suspension alongwith bad wheel alignment/balancing, and/or bad tires. Suspension overhaul is not expensive, but tires are (about 5.5K apiece).

Lastly, regarding your 2 queries:

1. The original Tata Sierra wiring harness is no longer available, and you cannot use that from some other Tata vehicle either (like Sumo). You will need a very competent auto electrician who has experience with Sierras to redo the wiring.

2. Yes, engine parts are easily available, and at very reasonable prices, unless you have some major issues with the Turbo, FIP or PS gearbox. These are very expensive to replace, so make sure these are in good shape in the car that you are considering.

Do post some pictures of the Sierra under consideration (I have the same color), and keep us posted on your purchase. All the Best.
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Old 2nd May 2011, 12:33   #373
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Default Re: Tata Sierra Turbo: Queries

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullitt View Post
Even a 4x4 Sierra would fear to tread in most of the places, where a 4x4 MM jeep or Gypsy could do a calypso. Its simply too overweight.
@Bullitt, the Sierra is approx 1600 kg's. A Sierra Turbo with a 90ps engine & 190 Nm torque shoud perform quite well in OTR's. But yes, a jeep is still a jeep.

Note:
I am quoting the numbers from the Sumo TCIC engine specs. I am not sure if the old Turbo Sierras had the same figures, or slightly lower.
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Old 2nd May 2011, 13:24   #374
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Default Re: Tata Sierra Turbo: Queries

@ condor: When I wrote that, I knew at the back of my mind that I would get caught . The point is, good OTR performance is not just about power-to-weight ratio. It also needs the right suspension setup, proper body dimensions like overhang for the correct approach/departure angles, ramp-over etc. etc.

Now, I wouldn't even call myself a noob to mud-bashing, I'm just a spectator, thanks to TBHP. All I know, in layman's terms, is that a good OTR vehicle has to be "nimble". And the Sierra, 4x4 or otherwise, is as nimble as an elephant.

There is a very good reason why the Indian Army used/uses MM Jeeps and MS Gypsies instead of Sierras.

Perhaps "bulky" was the right word, instead of "overweight".

The numbers for the TCIC Sumo and Sierra Turbo are the same. Here they are:

90PS @ 4300 RPM.

190 Nm @ 2000-3000 RPM.
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Old 3rd May 2011, 23:48   #375
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Default Re: Tata Sierra Turbo: Queries

@Bullitt - Now there are 2 people thinking in the same lines. A Sierra 4X4 is a must have. Drive in A/C comfort to the OTR, do the OTR and drive back. Basically, just have some fun.

BTW, I saw this thread a little late. I did not do the engine flush but just changed the oil. Another oil change sooner should take care of flushing the engine to a good extent. I wouldn't want to flush an old engine and face some new issues.

I will check and let you guys know after my 4th trip to Malvan in 3 weeks. Cheers!

PS: No weight related talks in the open.
Regards,
Kaustubh

Last edited by kaustubh_vaze : 3rd May 2011 at 23:49.
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