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Old 7th June 2011, 22:32   #451
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Default Re: Tata Sierra Turbo: Queries

@Ravi, hang in there, pls. Cousin is not net savvy unlike us.

Also, he is familiar with vehicles, esp diesels - so I know he can give it a decent look at before he updates me.
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Old 8th June 2011, 09:21   #452
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Default Re: Tata Sierra Turbo: Queries

ravi the noc is issued on a particular name and the vehicle will be regd on that name then you will become the fourth owner so unless you are getting the vehicle in your name under 90 k with all taxes paid it is not worth it.
Instead of calculating on your own do get in touch with a RTO agent for actual costs you will have a better picture of the budget as the road taxes are based on the cars year of manufacture.
Please check and recheck the vehicle post 2000 the sierra had a different center console .
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Old 8th June 2011, 11:41   #453
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Default Re: Tata Sierra Turbo: Queries

Quote:
Originally Posted by ravi_23 View Post
Today found one 2002 model Sierra Turbo. Its a Goa reg vehicle...
Quote:
Originally Posted by sierrakamat View Post
ravi the noc is issued on a particular name and the vehicle will be regd on that name then you will become the fourth owner so unless you are getting the vehicle in your name under 90 k with all taxes paid it is not worth it.
Instead of calculating on your own do get in touch with a RTO agent for actual costs you will have a better picture of the budget as the road taxes are based on the cars year of manufacture.
Please check and recheck the vehicle post 2000 the sierra had a different center console .
@ ravi: From the pics, this looks like a good find. From the pictures, I'm not able to make out if the colour has any hue (silver with a faint hue of green/blue/red etc, as found in Indicas), but if it is plain silver (metallic), then it's possible that the paint is original, as the Sierra Turbo was indeed offered in silver by TML. An immaculate example (courtesy Team-BHP):

Tata Sierra Turbo: Queries-sierra_turbo_silver.jpg

Is that "TATA" monogram on the rear door oversprayed? If so, the car has had atleast an overcoat, if not a full paint job. In pic #2, the driver's door seem to reveal a hint of shade difference (or is it just me?) The tail-lamps are not original, the Turbo had red+white only, no amber. Refer above pic. Even the monogram next to the driver's door is not original, the Turbo had only "SIERRA" with separated letters, in the same font as the "TATA" on the rear door.

Like sierrakamat, even I have my doubts regarding the date. 2002 Sierras are indeed very hard to find, as hardly any were sold in India (most were exported).

I believe post-2000 models came with HVAC (A/C with heater) instead of the normal A/C visible here, and remote fuel-lid release mechanism (no lock on the fuel lid).

I could never really understand the dashboard design chronology for Sierras. There were 2 designs, the one thats seen in this car, and another one which had a "straight-up" centre console starting from the hand-brake to the top of the dashboard, which integrated the 2 center blowers. Something like this (pic courtesy mouthshut.com):

Tata Sierra Turbo: Queries-tatasierraturbodash2.jpg

My '99 Turbo has the same dashboard as the one in the Goa car, but the '97 Mumbai Sierra Turbo (also in TBHP Classifieds) has the other one (see below). Now Sierrakamat is saying that even post-2000 cars had the above/below dashboard. I think TML just used whatever dashboard was available at that point in time and carried on building Sierras .

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Picture courtesy: Team-BHP Classifieds.

Sierrakamat is right, take a look at the RC of the car for relevant info, and then get an RTO agent to calculate the tax amount. This can be done over the phone in a matter of minutes, no need to visit the agent.

@ sierrakamat: 90K is according to Mumbai rates man, Bangy is expensive.

@ ravi: I think 120K with taxes paid (or 80K without taxes) is a fair deal, give or take a few. BUT, only after a thorough assessment by your mechanic.

I am assuming here that the seller is also the current owner of the car in the RC book. If he has purchased it from someone in Goa and is using it without a proper transfer and just an NOC, avoid it. In any case, the onus of transferring the car from Goa to KA lies with the seller.

Do not forget to check the insurance papers too.

Wait for condor's Sierra to turn up, compare, then take the plunge.

All the best.

- Bullitt.
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Old 8th June 2011, 15:49   #454
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Default Re: Tata Sierra Turbo: Queries

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullitt View Post
@ ravi: I think 120K with taxes paid (or 80K without taxes) is a fair deal, give or take a few. BUT, only after a thorough assessment by your mechanic.
Absolutely, I totally agree with you regarding the price First option will be better as I will not have to take the unnecessary headache. Will
have to talk to the owner regarding this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullitt View Post
Wait for condor's Sierra to turn up, compare, then take the plunge.
Yes, I am eagerly waiting for updates from condor. The owner of the silver sierra has called me on this saturday, so I am praying to get some update about the belgaum sierra before saturday.
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Old 8th June 2011, 17:27   #455
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Default Re: Tata Sierra Turbo: Queries

@ ravi:

Google the phrase "Got Tata Sierra Turbo Automotive". You will get a result that points to a thread on another automobile forum, where the guy very recently bought a used Tata Sierra Turbo. A very nice example, which will give you an idea about what to look for at what price.

Incidentally, the very same car has been around on various internet classifieds for months. It was there when i was looking for one, and I had considered buying it, but the prohibitive asking price of 2.25L coupled with TN registration kept me away. One ad is still online although the car is now sold. Take a look:

Pictures of TATA SIERRA FOR SALE - Kochi - Everything Else

Looks like the seller finally gave in and sold it for almost half as much. A very well-maintained example though.

- Bullitt
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Old 8th June 2011, 18:24   #456
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Default Re: Tata Sierra Turbo: Queries

@Bullit


Just had a look at the sierra. Looks like a well maintained one. But isn't 1.4L on the odo a bit too much? How much should be the max odo reading that one can consider before buying a sierra?

Also history of the vehicle is also very important. A 80k km run sierra may be in a bad condition then the 1.4L km run sierra, if the 80k sierra is very abused and 1.4L sierra being very well maintained.

And there is this second angle of viewing it, "meter tampering" Meters may also be tampered in many of the sierras showing low usage. Best way will be to see the overall condition of the vehicle, without giving much priority to odo reading...unless it has crossed around 2L mark Am i correct?
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Old 9th June 2011, 13:01   #457
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Default Re: Tata Sierra Turbo: Queries

@ ravi: 1.4L mileage is not unusual for a 10-year-old car. If used properly and maintained well, the engine will still have quite a lot of life left in it.

In the above example, I would give credit to the owner for being honest about the high mileage, as the condition of the car (original paint, excellent bodyline, all original car) speaks volumes about how well he has maintained it. The seller had also performed a lot of repairs and maintenance before selling the car, as mentioned by the buyer in his post (I'm sure the seller must have shown bills to backup his claim).

Therefore, as you correctly pointed out, mileage is not very relevant for such old cars, unless you find a very "pristine and low-mileage" car which has spent most of it's life parked in a garage rather than on the road.

In most cases, if you are buying directly from a genuine seller, and the car has no history of being with agents, then the meter will probably not be tampered with. There can be the odd crooked owner who will tamper the meter before selling, but thats rare, since low meter readings don't really make much sense in a 10-year-old car, unless it is really a "pristine and low mileage" garaged car (see above).

The price is more dictated by the car's age, condition and list of maintenance work done by the previous owner, which has a lot more weightage compared to the meter reading.

After all, it is highly irrational to expect a 10-year-old diesel to have run only 50K kms, unless the seller has proof to back up that claim.

However, it's a different story if a used car dealer is trying to sell you a car. 90% of the time, the meter WILL be tampered with, and should be taken with a pinch of salt.

- Bullitt

Last edited by Bullitt : 9th June 2011 at 13:02.
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Old 9th June 2011, 18:11   #458
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Default Re: Tata Sierra Turbo: Queries

@Ravi, quick update:

The Sierra has already under gone engine & G/b work. May need touch up, though. Cousin had been to see it, but owner is out of town so he could not open it to check for rusting etc. Will let you know as soon as he does & I get the pics.
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Old 9th June 2011, 20:57   #459
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Default Re: Tata Sierra Turbo: Queries

Quote:
Originally Posted by condor View Post
The Sierra has already under gone engine & G/b work. May need touch up, though.
Thanks for the update and eagerly waiting for the pictures

I am confused about the engine and g/b work. Have they been overhauled/rebored? or tuning has been done?
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Old 11th June 2011, 00:20   #460
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Default Re: Tata Sierra Turbo: Queries

One small query regarding the gearbox pattern of sierra, I know that it has a different gear pattern unlike other cars. The reverse is where the first gear in most of the other cars. That is not a problem, but I have seen reviews where it has been mentioned that the gear stick needs to be pressed/pulled and then move to put the gear in slot. Sierra owners please throw some light about the gear pattern of sierra, as this sunday the owner of GA reg sierra has invited me to come and check the sierra. And I don't want to look like a complete idiot who doesn't even know how to change gears in a sierra while doing a test drive.
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Old 11th June 2011, 08:01   #461
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Default Re: Tata Sierra Turbo: Queries

@Ravi, I dont think Tata went that far with their GB's . If they did, I will be pleasantly surprised.

When you go the TD, look at the marking on the gear lever. First try the gear shift with out switching on the engine. This will give you an idea of the gear box also.
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Old 13th June 2011, 09:41   #462
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Default Re: Tata Sierra Turbo: Queries

just for the record i personally wouldnt touch a out of state vehicle the paper work is just too much of a headache.
bullit no dealer worth his salt would spend on tampering a sierra meter it wont be making a difference in the price it would better to check the meter is working so that would be one less thing on the to do list.
ravi i am not trying to discourage you here but the sierras put up for sale are in such pathetic condition that believe me you will not enjoy the experience unles you have at your disposal dedicated mechanics who have serviced the glorious sierras of yore.
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Old 13th June 2011, 11:57   #463
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Default Re: Tata Sierra Turbo: Queries

Quote:
Originally Posted by ravi_23 View Post
One small query regarding the gearbox pattern of sierra, I know that it has a different gear pattern unlike other cars. The reverse is where the first gear in most of the other cars. That is not a problem, but I have seen reviews where it has been mentioned that the gear stick needs to be pressed/pulled and then move to put the gear in slot. Sierra owners please throw some light about the gear pattern of sierra, as this sunday the owner of GA reg sierra has invited me to come and check the sierra. And I don't want to look like a complete idiot who doesn't even know how to change gears in a sierra while doing a test drive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by condor View Post
@Ravi, I dont think Tata went that far with their GB's . If they did, I will be pleasantly surprised.

When you go the TD, look at the marking on the gear lever. First try the gear shift with out switching on the engine. This will give you an idea of the gear box also.
@ condor: I guess you should be pleasantly surprised then.

@ ravi: My dad (ex-TML employee) tells me that the G76 gearbox has more than 80 variants being used in various Tata vehicles.

To answer your question, the gears 1st to 5th are in their normal positions, with 1-3-5 up and 2-4 down. The reverse gear should be to the extreme left of the 1st gear (I believe it's called a "dog-leg" reverse), instead of under the fifth gear, as is normally in most "H-pattern" GBs. I think even Skodas have this "dog-leg" pattern. To prevent untimely engagement of reverse gear instead of first gear, the reverse gear position has been endowed with a very stiff spring which does not allow the gear stick to go extreme left unless forcefully pressed.

Name:  sierra_gear_pattern.JPG
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There is another variant of the G76, which my cousin's Type-1 Sumo had. His Sumo had the 1st gear under the reverse gear in the above picture, and 2nd gear where 1st is supposed to be. Continuing the pattern, his 5th gear was where the 4th is seen above. This is probably the pattern you have heard about. I believe NA Sierra's had it; I am yet to see a Sierra Turbo using that pattern.

Now, depending upon which of the 80-odd variants has been used, the gear knob may need to be lifted OR pressed down OR simply shifted to engage reverse.

My cousin's Sumo had the "press down" type knob. My Sierra's gear knob does not need to be lifted or pressed.

If you see the normal "H-pattern" GB with reverse under the 5th gear in the Sierra, then the car is probably using the Safari's GB (which, incidentally is also the same G76 with different ratios).

I assume your TD is done by now. Do let us know the outcome. Sierrakamat is right, avoid out-of-state vehicles unless you have the wherewithal (read money + clout) to do a proper transfer.

All the best.

- Bullitt

Last edited by Bullitt : 13th June 2011 at 12:09.
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Old 13th June 2011, 13:05   #464
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Default Re: Tata Sierra Turbo: Queries

@Bullitt, seriously - if only TML had continued with the many good features that they have used over time in their various vehicles ....

Thanks for that bit of info. So the name G-76 is more for a family of GB's, and not for a specific box.

The dog-leg gear pattern is what I have noticed on buses & trucks. IMO it is the safest pattern, other than the "press/lift for reverse" type.
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Old 13th June 2011, 18:24   #465
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Default Re: Tata Sierra Turbo: Queries

Quote:
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@Bullitt, seriously - if only TML had continued with the many good features that they have used over time in their various vehicles ....

Thanks for that bit of info. So the name G-76 is more for a family of GB's, and not for a specific box.

The dog-leg gear pattern is what I have noticed on buses & trucks. IMO it is the safest pattern, other than the "press/lift for reverse" type.
Considering your observation that the dog-leg is seen in comm. vehicles, I feel that the dog-leg in the Sierra/Sumo of yore is probably a legacy that was handed down to them from Tata's CV-making history; remember, Tata made trucks/buses before they made cars (some still call the Sierra/ Sumo/ Estate trucks in cars disguise).

These cars used a combination of dog-leg plus press/lift for reverse (at least in some of their models), thereby introducing dual safety.

But in my case, where the press/lift feature is missing, it can also prove to be a folly sometimes. I distinctly remember my initial days with my Sierra. There were a few instances when I was waiting at traffic lights, and I accidentally engaged reverse instead of first due to force of habit. Thankfully, my Sierra still has it's factory-fitted reverse alarm buzzer in working condition, which warned me before releasing the clutch.

Now I have gotten the feel for the resistance that the dog-leg gear puts up, and can easily slot into 1st without any issues.

- Bullitt
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