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Old 4th October 2016, 23:47   #1621
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Default Re: All about Diesel engine oils

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Originally Posted by drpullockaran View Post
After about 80,000km it is normal for the clearances of the sleave bearings of the crankshaft to increase minutely and hence your best choice would be the Delvac 5W40 synthetic, but if you are going to change it frequently good quality 10W40 will also do.
Thanks drpullockaran for the advice. The engine oil is recommended in the manual to be acea B1/B5 rated whereas Delvac 1 5w40 is rated E7/E4; so will it affect my engine in any adverse way? After searching for B1/B5 oil, found that there is one Mobil Super 3000 X1 Formula FE 5w30 which is specified to be B5, is it ok to go with this oil?
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Originally Posted by drpullockaran View Post
If you have tuned your vehicle for more torque then stick to synthetic.
Haven't done any engine tune up.
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Old 12th October 2016, 13:00   #1622
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Default Re: All about Diesel engine oils

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Originally Posted by rupdeb View Post
Thanks drpullockaran for the advice. The engine oil is recommended in the manual to be acea B1/B5 rated whereas Delvac 1 5w40 is rated E7/E4; so will it affect my engine in any adverse way? After searching for B1/B5 oil, found that there is one Mobil Super 3000 X1 Formula FE 5w30 which is specified to be B5, is it ok to go with this oil?

Haven't done any engine tune up.
B1/B5 is the lowest quality passenger car diesel engine oil available off the shelf in the European market. E4/E7 is a much better quality of diesel engine oil. Any 5W40 grade engine oil is good enough for your car and is actually overkill. If it were my car 5W40 semi synthetic is what I would use and the cheapest available in the Indian market. Save money and change the oil more frequently. To pamper your engine change the oil at 3/4th of the recommended KM reading. IF the car is used within the city and in traffic change the oil at half the recommended km reading. For the Cruze the interval is at 15000km but I change it at 10000km and the engine is in pristine condition even after 1,59,000km with about 300ml oil consumption in 10,000km. I travel 50% of the time in the city.

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Old 12th October 2016, 23:26   #1623
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Default Re: All about Diesel engine oils

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Originally Posted by drpullockaran View Post
Any 5W40 grade engine oil is good enough for your car and is actually overkill. If it were my car 5W40 semi synthetic is what I would use and the cheapest available in the Indian market.
Thanks for the info. Could you please recommend a good 5w40 semi-synth oil? Infact AJ-got-BHP also advised me to go semi-synth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ-got-BHP View Post
Since, you are based in Kolkata, I would recommend you to use a Semi-Synthetic Oil considering the weather conditions here. With respect to my observations and readings I have found them to perform better in our kind of climate over mineral & fully synthetic oils.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drpullockaran View Post
IF the car is used within the city and in traffic change the oil at half the recommended km reading.
My car runs only in Kolkata with very rare highway trips, less than 5000 kms till date out of the 84000 kms and not a single one in the last 15000 kms. I'm planning to go for 5000 kms oil change schedule from the earlier 10k during extended warranty period.
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Old 18th October 2016, 22:43   #1624
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Default Re: All about Diesel engine oils

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Originally Posted by rupdeb View Post
Thanks for the info. Could you please recommend a good 5w40 semi-synth oil? Infact AJ-got-BHP also advised me to go semi-synth.
Since you drive in the city and the conditions rape the car every day, you may use this. It is the best for your particular FIAT engine.
http://www.amazon.in/Mobil-Super-5W-.../dp/B00SIXYHS2
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Old 18th October 2016, 22:47   #1625
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Default Re: All about Diesel engine oils

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Originally Posted by drpullockaran View Post
Since you drive in the city and the conditions rape the car every day, you may use this. It is the best for your particular FIAT engine.
http://www.amazon.in/Mobil-Super-5W-.../dp/B00SIXYHS2
Thank you so much, but I've got a diesel Nissan Micra with a Renault 1.5 K9K dci engine not a Fiat engine.
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Old 24th October 2016, 20:55   #1626
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Default Re: All about Diesel engine oils

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Originally Posted by rupdeb View Post
Thank you so much, but I've got a diesel Nissan Micra with a Renault 1.5 K9K dci engine not a Fiat engine.
The engine in the Micra Diesel is far less stressed than the same engine in the duster in the 85 bhp guise. The engine you have is far more sturdier than the smaller cubic capacity FIAT engine. Any semi synth 5w40 oil will do. 10w40 can be given the miss.
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Old 24th October 2016, 21:35   #1627
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Default Re: All about Diesel engine oils

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Originally Posted by drpullockaran View Post
The engine in the Micra Diesel is far less stressed than the same engine in the duster in the 85 bhp guise. The engine you have is far more sturdier than the smaller cubic capacity FIAT engine. Any semi synth 5w40 oil will do. 10w40 can be given the miss.
Thank you. I'm planning to go for either Shell Helix HX7 5w30 or Castrol Magnatec Stop-Start 5w30 ( both are semi-synth) as 5w40 semi-synth are not that easily available here. If I get hold of a good 5w40 I would buy that and not considering 10w40.

Regards.
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Old 25th October 2016, 22:21   #1628
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Default Re: All about Diesel engine oils

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Originally Posted by rupdeb View Post
Thank you. I'm planning to go for either Shell Helix HX7 5w30 or Castrol Magnatec Stop-Start 5w30 ( both are semi-synth) as 5w40 semi-synth are not that easily available here. If I get hold of a good 5w40 I would buy that and not considering 10w40.

Regards.
If your car is more than 80,000km it is possible that the clearences have increased between the bore and the rings. If you have more than half a liter of oil consumption between oil changes I would suggest you switch over to 5W40 grade oil even if it is synthetic especially if the ambient temperatures hover above 40 degrees centigrade in the place you drive. This upgrade for Rs 2000 every oil change will ensure that your engine lasts about 2,50,000km. I know of a Taxi with your engine that has crossed 3,00,000km. Hey I just realized you are from Kolkatha. I studied at St Xaviers, Park Circus and used to stay at Army Havelock lines near Ordinance club during the years 1973 to 1976

Last edited by drpullockaran : 25th October 2016 at 22:23.
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Old 26th October 2016, 08:15   #1629
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Default Re: All about Diesel engine oils

Quote:
Originally Posted by drpullockaran View Post
If your car is more than 80,000km it is possible that the clearences have increased between the bore and the rings. If you have more than half a liter of oil consumption between oil changes I would suggest you switch over to 5W40 grade oil even if it is synthetic especially if the ambient temperatures hover above 40 degrees centigrade in the place you drive.
There are plenty of synthetic 5w40 available in the market such as Castrol Edge, Shell Helix Ultra, Mobil Delvac 1, Mobil Super 3000 so I can choose any of them. The temperature in Kolkata hovers around 40 in the summer months while during this part of the year it is between 30-32. I've to check the oil consumption rate the next time I go for the oil change. If I switch to synthetic I can stick to the 10k oil change schedule I guess. Thanks for your suggestions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drpullockaran View Post
Hey I just realized you are from Kolkata. I studied at St Xaviers, Park Circus and used to stay at Army Havelock lines near Ordinance club during the years 1973 to 1976.
Wow that's interesting info. Please try to visit Kolkata whenever you get time.
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Old 27th October 2016, 07:51   #1630
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Default Re: All about Diesel engine oils

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Originally Posted by rupdeb View Post


Wow that's interesting info. Please try to visit Kolkata whenever you get time.
A small correction the school was Don Bosco school in Kolkata. This is the school that had a major fire yesterday. I studied in Xaviers in New Delhi.
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Old 15th January 2017, 22:11   #1631
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Default Difference in Drain Intervals between BSIII Xylo and BS IV Elite i20

The Owner's Manual of our Xylo E8 ABS recommends to Replace Engine Oil (and Oil Filter) every 15000 kms.
I replace the Engine Oil every 10000 kms from Start till date. The car has run 276K+ kms without Engine Overhaul from Nov. 2009. Touchwood. I did not replace Engine Oil at 1000 km mark though.
If I am not wrong, some years ago M&M introduced Maximile FEO (Mineral Grade) Engine Oil and recommended to replace this oil every 20000 kms (Bhpian pcpranav informed me about this).

The Owner's Manual of our Elite i20 CRDi Asta Mar. 2015 recommends to replace Engine Oil (and Oil Filter) every 10000 kms.
Can Experts please explain as to why there is such a Vast difference in the Drain Interval of Nov. 2009 BSIII Xylo and Mar. 2015 BSIV Elite i20 Diesel inspite of BS Emission improvement in i20?

AFAIK, the Drain Interval should have increased with Improvement in Technology.

Tell me reasons other than 'The Fuel Quality (Sulphur Content in Diesel) in India Affects the Drain Interval'.


I hate using Dealer provided Lubes unless its Sealed by the Car Manufacturer itself.
I don't know about others but M&M supplies Lubes to its Authorised Dealers and Service Centres in separate Packing (Cans). When our Xylo was under warranty, I used those lubes. But for i20 I used the lube provided by Hyundai dealer only during 2nd service at 10000 kms. After that I started using my own lubes from 3rd Service (I did not carry out any service at Dealer or HASS after 3rd service at 20000 kms.

EDIT:-
Currently I am using Shell Helix HX5 Diesel CH4 15W40 for our Xylo and i20.

Last edited by IndigoXLGrandDi : 15th January 2017 at 22:37.
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Old 16th January 2017, 05:24   #1632
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Default Re: Difference in Drain Intervals between BSIII Xylo and BS IV Elite i20

Quote:
Originally Posted by IndigoXLGrandDi View Post
The Owner's Manual of our Xylo E8 ABS recommends to Replace Engine Oil (and Oil Filter) every 15000 kms.
I replace the Engine Oil every 10000 kms from Start till date. The car has run 276K+ kms without Engine Overhaul from Nov. 2009. Touchwood. I did not replace Engine Oil at 1000 km mark though.
If I am not wrong, some years ago M&M introduced Maximile FEO (Mineral Grade) Engine Oil and recommended to replace this oil every 20000 kms (Bhpian pcpranav informed me about this).

The Owner's Manual of our Elite i20 CRDi Asta Mar. 2015 recommends to replace Engine Oil (and Oil Filter) every 10000 kms.
Can Experts please explain as to why there is such a Vast difference in the Drain Interval of Nov. 2009 BSIII Xylo and Mar. 2015 BSIV Elite i20 Diesel inspite of BS Emission improvement in i20?

AFAIK, the Drain Interval should have increased with Improvement in Technology.

Tell me reasons other than 'The Fuel Quality (Sulphur Content in Diesel) in India Affects the Drain Interval'.


I hate using Dealer provided Lubes unless its Sealed by the Car Manufacturer itself.
I don't know about others but M&M supplies Lubes to its Authorised Dealers and Service Centres in separate Packing (Cans). When our Xylo was under warranty, I used those lubes. But for i20 I used the lube provided by Hyundai dealer only during 2nd service at 10000 kms. After that I started using my own lubes from 3rd Service (I did not carry out any service at Dealer or HASS after 3rd service at 20000 kms.

EDIT:-
Currently I am using Shell Helix HX5 Diesel CH4 15W40 for our Xylo and i20.
The drain period of an engine is driven by a multiplicity of factors.

The fact that one is a Euro III compliant engine and the other is a Euro IV has very little to do with the drain period.

Some of the important factors that drive the drain period of an engine would be following:

1. Engine sump size
2. Compression ratio
3. Whether or not an engine is turbo charges/CRDI engines
4. Clearances/tolerances of an engine
5. Other OEM considerations
6. The API specs of the recommended oil

Typically North American/Korean/Japanese cars have 50% sump capacity as that of a similar cubic capacity engine coming from Europe (as you would probably know that additives help protect the engine from the combustion by products and are depleted in the process). This affects the amount of additives that are present in the oil sump and thereby the ability of the engine oil to protect your engine (by this corollary engine oil in an European engine would last almost twice as long as compared to that in an North American/Japanese/Korean engine).

An engine with a higher compression ratio would tend to run hotter and therefore will oxidise the engine oil faster thus shorter drain.

Turbo charged engines also tend to run hot as compared to a similar sized naturally aspirated engine (air is injected into the combustion chamber at higher than the atmospheric pressure) and this also affects the oil life adversely. Common Rail Direct Injection engines also run hotter as the diesel is injected at over 40,000 psi so these engines will have a shorter drain as well.

Engines with tighter tolerances & clearances do not have appetite for combustion by products and other contaminants that are produced in a typical diesel engine and therefore the OEM will recommend a shorter drain period that will ensure that these contaminants are drained out well before they attain a critical mass/size to affect the engine life adversely.

There are other OEM design considerations that would dictate the drain interval of an engine as well.

Lastly if an OEM recommends an obsolete API spec (this is quite rare now a days) then the drain period will be shorter.

Bottom-line; think of the oil change as cheap insurance; would you rather spend a few thousand rupees extra on an additional oil change in a given year or a couple of lacs on a new engine.

Please remember amount of money that you would end up spending on an oil change would constitute a minuscule percentage of what you spend on diesel in a given year.

Yes the relatively high sulphur content on top of other impurities in diesel that is sold in India definitely is a problem that would deplete the TBN (total base number) of the diesel engine oil faster but this factor would be common for both i20 & Xylo.

An interesting fact, diesel that is sold in India contains 350 ppm (parts per million) of sulphur whereas diesel that is sold here contains 15 ppm so Indian fuel retailing companies have some serious catching up to do.

The oil that you’re using currently is an excellent product so no worries on that front however I must mention here that the current API spec for diesel engine oils is CJ-4 ( currently transitioning to CK-4/FA-4 effective December 1st, 2016).

On a personal note both my SUVs (petrol) have been run on full synthetic from day 1 and I never exceed 6,500 kms between oil changes (okay where I live the temperatures range between -35 C in winter to 30 C in summer but I would do the same if I lived in India) whatever the OEM may say.

A few years when I was looking after the consumer markets here in Canada and GM was one of my clients (in addition to Ferrari, Chrysler, Suzuki & Mercedes Benz) we had a large number of Cadillacs reporting to dealerships across the country with half the oil in their sumps gone. It turned out that the oil life monitor that the GM had programmed when these cars left the plant was not going off till 30,000 kms in some cases. GM had to issue a recall and reprogram the oil life monitors post this fiasco.

Lesson; change your oil sooner than later; given the dusty conditions on top of other adverse driving conditions in India I would recommend changing oil sooner than whatever the OEM recommends to ensure longevity of your engine.

Hope this helps.

Last edited by Vikram Arya : 16th January 2017 at 05:26.
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Old 18th January 2017, 23:42   #1633
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Default Re: Difference in Drain Intervals between BSIII Xylo and BS IV Elite i20

Quote:
Originally Posted by IndigoXLGrandDi View Post
The Owner's Manual of our Xylo E8 ABS recommends to Replace Engine Oil (and Oil Filter) every 15000 kms.
I replace the Engine Oil every 10000 kms from Start till date. The car has run 276K+ kms without Engine Overhaul from Nov. 2009....

If I am not wrong, some years ago M&M introduced Maximile FEO (Mineral Grade) Engine Oil and recommended to replace this oil every 20000 kms (Bhpian pcpranav informed me about this).


EDIT:-
Currently I am using Shell Helix HX5 Diesel CH4 15W40 for our Xylo and i20.
Hi Dada, good to see you. Really very nice to know that your Xylo crossed 276K KMs and going very strong.

Yes, initial batch of Xylo (E series), including yours, had prescribed engine oil drain every 15000 KMs. Whereas in next batch, including mine (E6 of June-2016), the prescribed drain interval is 20000 KMs! Earlier the oil was Maximile Supreme, then changed to Maximile Crowne, and then Maximile FEO, recalled some of previous posts: here (All about Diesel engine oils) and here (My Experience With Xylo E8 Abs) and here (Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions)

As of now I could just locate manuals for XYLO H-Series and D-Series : both mention engine oil's drain interval of 20000 KMs (refer the maintenance chart section towards the end of article), and oil mentioned is MM Maximile FEO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vikram Arya View Post

Bottom-line; think of the oil change as cheap insurance; would you rather spend a few thousand rupees extra on an additional oil change in a given year or a couple of lacs on a new engine.

Please remember amount of money that you would end up spending on an oil change would constitute a minuscule percentage of what you spend on diesel in a given year.

The oil that you’re using currently is an excellent product so no worries on that front however I must mention here that the current API spec for diesel engine oils is CJ-4 ( currently transitioning to CK-4/FA-4 effective December 1st, 2016).
I also believe that changing engine oil time (or bit early too) is always better.
My Xylo had crossed 169K KMs, and I change engine oil 6-to-8 thousand KMs. These days Im using Shell Rimula R4 (CI-4+ @ 15w40), really liking it. I would suggest you to try this stuff, if not already; R4 seems far better than HX5. In this same thread also I have posted several of my usage reports.

regards,
Pranav

Last edited by pcpranav : 18th January 2017 at 23:46.
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Old 19th January 2017, 10:49   #1634
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Default Re: All about Diesel engine oils

Calling out your attention, Experts ( and specially Verna Fludici CRDi Owners )

I own a 2012 December Manufactured Verna Fluidic Crdi that has about 33K on the odometer, and due on an oil change. Came across some interesting recommendations from Owner's manual and their website:

_ Owner's manual recommends API - CH4, ACEA B4 (without DPF), ACEA C3 ( with DPF )
_ Hyundai recommends viscosity of 15W40
_ Hyundai also mentions that Synthetic is an option, but doesn't really mention on the recommended viscosity.

I am due on an oil change, and after a thorough search on this forum, understand the most suited engine oils to be either Mobil Delvac MX or Mobil Delvac 1. I have following questions that I hope could be answered by someone here, inline :-

+ Can the recommended oil meet any recommendations as listed above? I have seen most of the oils do not meet API-CH4, yet meet ACEA C3 or B4. In other words, some oils signify ACEA B4 compliant, and yet they still are API -CF only ( obsolete classification on API ) . Are they OK to use too? ( Example : http://www.shell.in/motorists/oils-l...tra-5w-40.html )

+ Does Verna Diesel have a DPF

+ Using Mobil Delvac 1 is available as grade 5w40. I am based out of Bangalore, and I am assuming it should be ok to use 5W40. Can you correct me.

+ Are there any other Engine oil options that are fully synthetic or semi, that meet CH-4?

+ Any insight on what grade synthetic oil does Hyundai dealers recommend?

+ Any reviews on Liqui Molly.

Thanks - VIG.

Last edited by avigster : 19th January 2017 at 10:57.
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Old 19th January 2017, 12:41   #1635
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Default Re: All about Diesel engine oils

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Originally Posted by avigster View Post
+ Are there any other Engine oil options that are fully synthetic or semi, that meet CH-4?
There are umpteen number of CH4 available in the market; to name a few :
  • Shell - Rimula CH4
  • Mobil - MGDO available
  • Elf - 3D CH4
  • Castrol - RX Super Max
  • MAK (BPCL)
  • SERVO (IOCL)

All these brands have a CH4 oil to meet your requirements. Just that you will have to hunt a bit for it. FYI - The CH4 will be a mineral oil and not a Semi or a Fully Synthetic Oil by any chance. If some brand claims a CH4 to be Synthetic, understand that it is a marketing gimmick and nothing else.

Hope this helps !!
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