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Old 3rd March 2017, 05:51   #1651
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API is a regulatory authority on engine oils in United States. Their specifications are followed (for the most part) by American, Japanese and Korean manufacturers. Current Diesel engine oil spec is API - CK4 that came into effect on December 1st, 2016. CH4 is an obsolete specification.

Please note that a large number of European manufacturers follow ACEA specifications or in a number of cases they have their own specs. BMW, Mercedes Benz, VW and Fiat have their own in house specs.

Please follow specs as recommended by your OEM and don't go by what some mechanic tells you.
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Old 3rd March 2017, 10:53   #1652
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Default Re: All about Diesel engine oils

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Originally Posted by anycatd View Post
By default they use Castrol Magnatec. So this practice is wrong is wrong you mean. What is CH4? Rated by which institute? Can you please explain.


Most CRDi diesel engines (M&M , Tata ,Fiat/Maruti 1.3 MJD etc) recommend minimum as API CH4 and in case of latest long drain interval engines API CI4 oil.
If you see manuals of these cars they do not write Magnatec as recommended oil

Castrol Magnatec pack reads multigrade oil for petrol and diesel however it is lower grade than API CH4 and suited only Non CRDi turbo Diesel.
The point is one should not go by just semisynthetic or mineral. Grade of oild should meet or exceed what car manual says.

@ Vikram

Though API CH4 /CI4 may be obsoleted elsewhere however
in India we are still at Euro 4 standard and the highest grade oil
in most of the Engines usually is CI4.
API CJ4 came with low ash content for Euro 5 engines but most oils
in India ( Castrol, Shell, HP, IOC etc) are still not yet CJ4 compliant.

API CK4 spec is out however very few engines of imported cars would need CK4 grade oil as of now and most probably the oil would be imported too.
India is going to jump to Euro 6 in 2020 skipping Euro 5 and probably we will be moving to CK4 with it.

I had a discussion with Castrol oil expert last year at Prerna Motors during an event and as per him Castrol GTX is right oil for CRDi Diesel engines.
Earlier Castrol GTX was API CH4 however they upgraded it to API CI4 after Tata and Mahindra moved to API CI4 grade in engine specifications.

Same goes for Shell Helix HX7 which is a semi-synthetic but API CF4 grade
Shell Helix HX5 Shell Rimula R4 are right grades though they are mineral.

Last edited by amitk26 : 3rd March 2017 at 11:06.
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Old 4th March 2017, 01:42   #1653
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Default Re: All about Diesel engine oils

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Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
@ Vikram

Though API CH4 /CI4 may be obsoleted elsewhere however
in India we are still at Euro 4 standard and the highest grade oil
in most of the Engines usually is CI4.
API CJ4 came with low ash content for Euro 5 engines but most oils
in India ( Castrol, Shell, HP, IOC etc) are still not yet CJ4 compliant.

API CK4 spec is out however very few engines of imported cars would need CK4 grade oil as of now and most probably the oil would be imported too.
India is going to jump to Euro 6 in 2020 skipping Euro 5 and probably we will be moving to CK4 with it.

I had a discussion with Castrol oil expert last year at Prerna Motors during an event and as per him Castrol GTX is right oil for CRDi Diesel engines.
Earlier Castrol GTX was API CH4 however they upgraded it to API CI4 after Tata and Mahindra moved to API CI4 grade in engine specifications.

Same goes for Shell Helix HX7 which is a semi-synthetic but API CF4 grade
Shell Helix HX5 Shell Rimula R4 are right grades though they are mineral.
Yes you’re right a number of Indian OEMs (Tata/Mahindra) do specify API CH4 specification for their diesel engines.

My humble suggestion would to be more specific while giving your recommendations; in case of API specs both the grade and the viscosity range must be specified. Castrol Magnatec is one of their sub brands marketed by Castrol India and it has three variants; 5W-30 which is primarily a gasoline engine oil meets API-SN, 10W-40 & Diesel 15W-40 that are for dual use and meet API SN/CF. Castrol GTX has four variants; GTX Ultraclean (API SN), GTX 20W-50 (API –SL), GTX Diesel 15W-40 (API CH-4) & GTX CNG meant for CNG engines (meets API SG/CD).

As for Shell; “Helix” is their engine oil range primarily for gasoline engines (for the most part) & Rimula is their commercial diesel engine oil range. Shell’s Rimula range that they market in India is actually much more comprehensive with close to 20 variants.

One important thing that needs to be understood here is that API diesel engine oil specifications are meant for heavy duty on/off highway engines for most part and not for light duty engines that are typically employed in passenger cars.

As most of the passenger vehicle OEMs operating in India (barring Tata, Mahindra) use smaller cubic capacity diesel engines that use some kind of turbo charging/common rail direct injection technology sourced from their European subsidiaries and they are unlikely to adhere to API specs in most cases and will have either their use their own in house specs (Fiat, VW, BMW, Mercedes Benz, Renault/Nissan) and/or ACEA specs. I do not really know what direction will the Indian duo (Tata/Mahindra want to take) and if they are willing to spend hundreds and sometimes thousands of crores in addition to a number of years required to develop brand new engine platforms or will they find it easier to source the engines required for their passenger vehicle lines from some European manufacturers. Although I must mention that in recent years both TATA & Mahindra have developed some good engine platform but they will have to quicken their pace as Euro VI norms are going to hit India in a couple of years. That in turn will also drive the availability/marketing of the engine oils following a particular regime.

In the commercial space you have Volvo, Scania and Mercedes & MAN manufacturing their heavy duty on/off highway trucks and they follow their own Volvo, Scania, MB & MAN specs and not API specs. Then you have the two major players; Tata & Mahindra Navistar that actually employ engines that require oils adhering to API specs but given the abysmal quality of diesel available in India with 350 ppm of sulphur & widespread adulteration I don’t think they will require CJ-4/CK-4 spec oils any time soon.

And therefore by corollary you will not have the multinational oil majors selling diesel engine oils that meet API CJ-4/CK-4/FA-4 specs anytime soon.

Having spent close to 22 years in the lubricant sector I frequently hear this refrain that “this was the oil suggested by a mechanic or a (smart aleck) service advisor” and most of the time these recommendations are incorrect and driven more often by the commercial considerations such as what’s available in the inventory/higher profit margin etc.

My humble suggestion/recommendation is that please read your owner’s manual that explicitly states the particular grade of oil to be used in that engine (you will also find them mentioning a particular brand/sub brand if there is a licensing agreement in place) and don’t go by what some mechanic tells you. At the end of the day it is your investment that is on the line.

Last edited by Vikram Arya : 4th March 2017 at 02:12.
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Old 4th March 2017, 08:23   #1654
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Default Re: All about Diesel engine oils

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vikram Arya View Post
Having spent close to 22 years in the lubricant sector I frequently hear this refrain that “this was the oil suggested by a mechanic or a (smart aleck) service advisor” and most of the time these recommendations are incorrect and driven more often by the commercial considerations such as what’s available in the inventory/higher profit margin etc.

My humble suggestion/recommendation is that please read your owner’s manual that explicitly states the particular grade of oil to be used in that engine (you will also find them mentioning a particular brand/sub brand if there is a licensing agreement in place) and don’t go by what some mechanic tells you. At the end of the day it is your investment that is on the line.
Very sensible advice indeed which applies to all vehicles/engines. At the end of the day the engine or car manufacturer knows best what type and grade of oil is good for the engine.

Over the past 3+ decades of using (and even tuning/maintaining engines till the introduction of EFI) I've come across more than my share of "Mr. Smarty-Pants" mechanics/technicians who believe they're the last word in all things automobile. They're at best taken with a large pinch of salt.
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Old 4th March 2017, 12:02   #1655
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Default Re: All about Diesel engine oils

Good Afternoon everyone,

I need a help regarding change of oil for my Hyundai i20 CRDi (2012) model. I spoke to my service adviser for change of my engine oil and what oil does Hyundai service centre uses. According to him they use Servo mineral oil costing close to Rs. 300 per litre. The oil rating is 20W40. I asked him whether i can bring my own oil and can they change the same in showroom and he has said yes. So need help in selecting the oil. After reading the forums I am leaning for Mobil Delvac Synthetic Oil. Is the oil appropriate or else there is a better oil than this for my car. Also where can I get the same in Hyderabad.

P.S..I am taking my car to J & K for an official stay for 2 years and have planned to use it there.

Thanking everyone in advance.
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Old 4th March 2017, 12:27   #1656
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Default Re: All about Diesel engine oils

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Originally Posted by ketan4renault View Post
After reading the forums I am leaning for Mobil Delvac Synthetic Oil..
IMO Delvac 1 is one of the best, if not the best, synthetic diesel oils there is. Since you are moving to J&K Delvac 1 5W-40 should work just fine. But just check your car's owners manual for the recommended viscosity (it'll probably be 5W-XX or 10W-xx) for cold weather running.
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Old 4th March 2017, 14:44   #1657
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Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
IMO Delvac 1 is one of the best, if not the best, synthetic diesel oils there is. Since you are moving to J&K Delvac 1 5W-40 should work just fine. But just check your car's owners manual for the recommended viscosity (it'll probably be 5W-XX or 10W-xx) for cold weather running.

Just spoke with the Mobil dealer in Hyd. He is offering me:-

Shell Helix 5W-40 - 3.5L can for Rs.2237/-
Mobil Super 5W-40 - 3.5L can for Rs.2237/-
Mobil 1 0W-40 - 4 L can for Rs.5400/-

All the above options are fully synthetic oils. According to the user manual , 5W-30 or 0W-30 are the best option for me.

He doesn't have Delvac 1 can available with him. In dilemma now whether to go ahead with the above options. Do anyone has any dealer in Hyd who can provide the Delvac 1 oil.
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Old 4th March 2017, 15:47   #1658
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Default Re: All about Diesel engine oils

Quote:
Originally Posted by ketan4renault View Post
Just spoke with the Mobil dealer in Hyd. He is offering me:-

Shell Helix 5W-40 - 3.5L can for Rs.2237/-
Mobil Super 5W-40 - 3.5L can for Rs.2237/-
Mobil 1 0W-40 - 4 L can for Rs.5400/-

All the above options are fully synthetic oils. According to the user manual , 5W-30 or 0W-30 are the best option for me.

He doesn't have Delvac 1 can available with him. In dilemma now whether to go ahead with the above options. Do anyone has any dealer in Hyd who can provide the Delvac 1 oil.
Delvac 1 is a bit difficult to source. Check with other dealers too.

You dealer has given you some incorrect information. Shell Helix Ultra fully synthetic is not offered in 3.5L cans. Like Mobil 1 it is offered only in 4L and 1L cans.

Also, the price for a 4L can is between Rs 3.2-3.5K. He's probably quoted for Shell Helix HX7 which is semi synthetic and 10W-40. Please reconfirm with the dealer.

Not to worry, you can use 0W-40 or 5W-40 i.e. Mobil 1 0W-40 or Shell Helix Ultra 5W-40 in your car. For 5W-30 try Mobil 1 ESP available on Amazon. Mobil 1 is more expensive than SHU.
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Old 4th March 2017, 16:05   #1659
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Default Re: All about Diesel engine oils

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Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
Delvac 1 is a bit difficult to source. Check with other dealers too.
Yes for sure. Searching for the same. Also on the Mobil official site is coming under the head of Heavy Duty engine oils.

Quote:
You dealer has given you some incorrect information. Shell Helix Ultra fully synthetic is not offered in 3.5L cans. Like Mobil 1 it is offered only in 4L and 1L cans.
Well he has sent me the picture of the can of 3.5L of Shell Helix Diesel HX 8 5W-40. Also he has sent me the pic of 3.5L can of Mobil super 5W-40.

Also, the price for a 4L can is between Rs 3.2-3.5K. He's probably quoted for Shell Helix HX7 which is semi synthetic and 10W-40. Please reconfirm with the dealer.

Quote:
Not to worry, you can use 0W-40 or 5W-40 i.e. Mobil 1 0W-40 or Shell Helix Ultra 5W-40 in your car. For 5W-30 try Mobil 1 ESP available on Amazon. Mobil 1 is more expensive than SHU.
I searched on amazon and got the prices of both Mobil ESP and mobil 1. Hardly a difference of Rs.150. Which should i go for?

Last edited by Jaggu : 6th March 2017 at 17:49. Reason: Fixing Quotes. Thanks
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Old 4th March 2017, 20:26   #1660
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Default Re: All about Diesel engine oils

Quote:
Originally Posted by ketan4renault View Post
Yes for sure. Searching for the same. Also on the Mobil official site is coming under the head of Heavy Duty engine oils.
Ask around a few more dealers. You may just get lucky. If possible buy 2 cans with a spare for next year's service.

Quote:
Well he has sent me the picture of the can of 3.5L of Shell Helix Diesel HX 8 5W-40. Also he has sent me the pic of 3.5L can of Mobil super 5W-40.
Yes, like I said, Helix Ultra and Mobil 1 are both different from the HX 5/7/8 and Mobil Super offerings of those companies. The first two are the higher grade/premium products and therefore more expensive.

Quote:
I searched on amazon and got the prices of both Mobil ESP and mobil 1. Hardly a difference of Rs.150. Which should i go for?
If I were you I'd give preference to a diesel specific oil in grades the car manufacturer recommends for your engine. So first choice is Mobil Delvac 1, followed by Shell Helix HX8 Diesel 5W-40.

Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30/Mobil 1 0W-40/ Shell Helix Ultra 5W-40 would also do but only if you can't source diesel engine oils.
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Old 4th March 2017, 20:41   #1661
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http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/technical-stuff/54393-all-about-diesel-engine-oils-111.html#post4157413

Well at the end of the day got Mobil 1 0W-40 for my car. Wallet lighter by rs. 5000 for 5 litres of it which was better than the one I was getting on amazon. And top of it delivery at the same time. Thanks a lot R2D2
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Old 4th March 2017, 21:25   #1662
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Default Re: All about Diesel engine oils

Quote:
Originally Posted by ketan4renault View Post
Good Afternoon everyone,

I need a help regarding change of oil for my Hyundai i20 CRDi (2012) model. I spoke to my service adviser for change of my engine oil and what oil does Hyundai service centre uses. According to him they use Servo mineral oil costing close to Rs. 300 per litre. The oil rating is 20W40. I asked him whether i can bring my own oil and can they change the same in showroom and he has said yes. So need help in selecting the oil. After reading the forums I am leaning for Mobil Delvac Synthetic Oil. Is the oil appropriate or else there is a better oil than this for my car. Also where can I get the same in Hyderabad.

P.S..I am taking my car to J & K for an official stay for 2 years and have planned to use it there.

Thanking everyone in advance.
Ketan4renault,

Your car requires 5W/10W/15W-30/40 API CH-4 or ACEA B4 or higher grade oil.
As you will notice 20W-40 is not a recommended viscosity (chart 2) for your car so your service adviser is dead wrong.

Shell Helix Ultra 5W-40 is an excellent oil (it is used by Ferrari) meets ACEA A3/B4 and will be my first choice even ahead of Mobil 1. It is available in 4 ltr. packaging on Amazon at Rs 3,439.

Shell Helix HX-8 5W-40 also meets ACEA A3/B4 and will be my next choice.

Mobil 1 0W-40 (API-SN/CF, ACEA A3/B4) is primarily meant for gasoline engines and should be fine but I wouldn’t recommend it as I’m not a big fan of 0W oils on account of their lack of shear stability (please see point#3 at the bottom of the second chart).

Mobil 1 5W-30 (API-SN/ACEA A3/B4) will be my recommendation. It’s pour point is -42C so that takes care of the cold weather requirements.

Mobil Delvac 1 5W-40 meets API CI-4 Plus/SL and you can use it but it is a heavy duty diesel engine oil primarily meant for on/off highway trucks.

Mobil Super is Mobil’s semi synthetic range.
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Last edited by Vikram Arya : 4th March 2017 at 21:33.
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Old 6th March 2017, 17:14   #1663
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Default Re: All about Diesel engine oils

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vikram Arya View Post
Mobil 1 5W-30 (API-SN/ACEA A3/B4) will be my recommendation. It’s pour point is -42C so that takes care of the cold weather requirements.

Mobil Delvac 1 5W-40 meets API CI-4 Plus/SL and you can use it but it is a heavy duty diesel engine oil primarily meant for on/off highway trucks.

Mobil Super is Mobil’s semi synthetic range.
Recommended grade for the SCross 1.6 is 0w30. Would it be fine if I go for the Mobil Delvac 1 5W40? I have good experience with Delvac 1 on my swift Diesel.Is Delvac 1 available in 5W40 grade?
PS- As per the chart, 0w30 is not suitable for temperatures above 10 degC. How does Maruti recommend this grade?

Last edited by rakesh_r : 6th March 2017 at 17:19.
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Old 7th March 2017, 06:05   #1664
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Default Re: All about Diesel engine oils

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Originally Posted by rakesh_r View Post
Recommended grade for the SCross 1.6 is 0w30. Would it be fine if I go for the Mobil Delvac 1 5W40? I have good experience with Delvac 1 on my swift Diesel.Is Delvac 1 available in 5W40 grade?
PS- As per the chart, 0w30 is not suitable for temperatures above 10 degC. How does Maruti recommend this grade?
Rakesh, this chart is specifically for the Hyundai i20 CRDi from its owners' manual. It is broadly indicative and not very scientific.

Oil viscosity recommended by an OEM is driven by a number of factors such as whether the engine is naturally aspirated or is turbo charged, how high the compression ratio is, how close the tolerances are & a number of other design considerations that are far too complex for general understanding.

Toyota & Honda here in North America recommend 0W-20 for a majority of their cars that are sold both in Houston where the summer temperatures can be as high as 37C and Fort McMurray in Canada where the peak winter temperatures are as low as -45C so clearly there is more at play here than just the ambient temperatures.

You need to trust the OEM’s recommendations; they have designed the engine and know what’s the best viscosity range to achieve best lubrication efficiencies.

OEM’s world-wide in both passenger & heavy duty space are moving towards lighter viscosities to push the fuel economy figures. We are now observing the same trend in India.

No, I would not recommend any 5W-40 as the “40” here pertains to viscosity of oil at engine’s operating temperature which will be much thicker than a 0W-30. The thicker oil will impede your fuel efficiency and can also starve some vital engine parts of lubrication which can cause long term damage to the engine.

To elaborate, a 0W-30 oil will have a kinematic viscosity of approx. 11.7 to 12.1 centistokes @100C which is engine’s operating temperature. The same parameter for a 5W-40 oil will be 13.2 to 13.4 centistokes at engine’s operating temperature which you can see is much thicker.

Best course is to stick to a 0W-30 though you may go in for a fully synthetic formulation. If it is not available you may go in for a 5W-30 but not 5W-40.

And yes, Mobil Delvac 1 is available in 5W-40 grade. The recommended oil for Swift diesel is by the way 5W-30 ACEA A5/B5 & Mobil Delvac 1 5W-40 meets ACEA E5/E3.

Hope this helps.
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Old 7th March 2017, 07:21   #1665
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Question Re: swift VDi on 5W-40?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vikram Arya View Post
And yes, Mobil Delvac 1 is available in 5W-40 grade. The recommended oil for Swift diesel is by the way 5W-30 ACEA A5/B5 & Mobil Delvac 1 5W-40 meets ACEA E5/E3.
So, for my swift VDi (2009) model, I had Mobil Delvac 1 for the last service.

Now that you say, manufacturer recommended for swift VDi(old) is 5W-30, does my fill of 5W-40 harm the engine?

Also, what are the oil options for 5W-30 in synthetic grade?
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