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Old 9th February 2011, 08:56   #541
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Default Re: All about Diesel engine oils

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Originally Posted by predatorwheelz View Post
Get it changed immediately! Considering the pressures at which a CRDI engine works, you don't know how much damage you've done by using a CF oil.

And why the fascination for Synthetic? Trust me dude, fill something like Mobil Delvac MX. Save money, and still give your car the best it deserves.
Thanks, I am going to change the oil today. I an okay with syn or mineral as long as it's good for the engine. So far it's been syn as TATA recommends it for Manza QJD and my car is in warranty.

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Originally Posted by headers View Post
Nothing wrong with a CF grade oil IMO
Thanks, I wish you are right. If yes, then it may not have caused damage to my car. I am going to have to change it though.

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Originally Posted by drpullockaran View Post
Since you have already covered 10000km I believe the oil has reached its end of life a few hundred km ago since its a CF rated oil. Change the oil tomorrow after the engine reaches operating temperatures. No need of any flushing oil just make sure you get the oil thats mentioned in the manual if you cannot get hold of the C3 grade oil I mentioned. Change the oil filter too. If the rough sound does not go away in about 500km then your engine has had long term damage due to wrong grade of oil. CRDI engines are very sensitive to oil specifications especially ones with DPF( Diesel Particulate Filters) and EGR.
Thanks. Oil change is happening for sure today. Regarding the damage, I think there may not be any (rather I wish). I did the last 10,000 km in last 3 months and 70% of that was on highway in winters. Always got FE of 22+, and engine usually was in low range of optimum temprature. Does it tell anything? If there was a damage, the FE should have dropped or the engine would have started heating up. I guess I am trying to give myself some comfort.

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Originally Posted by predatorwheelz View Post
Thank you Doc, exactly the point I was trying to make. Having owned both normal and CRDI diesels, I'm surprised at how much TLC is required for the latter. Keep your CRDI healthy, and you'll be rewarded with performance AND diesel economy. Neglect/abuse it, and you're looking at premature failures and big bills.

@Headers - All CRDI engines require a minimum of CH grade oil.
Thanks predator and headers.

Now can someone please help me where can I source Delvac MX in Noida. I am aware of the shops in Sec 16, but it will help if any member can point to a particular place. Will save me sometime. Thanks all. I am so glad I am on T-BHP.
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Old 9th February 2011, 09:28   #542
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Default Re: All about Diesel engine oils

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Originally Posted by ph03n!x View Post
Am sure I have said this in this thread before - for CRDi engines, stick with Mobile Delvac MX / Shell Rimula and such mineral oils that are API CH4 / CI4 or higher. We do not have a good synthetic oil in India yet to quench our Turbo CRDi's needs - my attempts to source Mobile Delvac 1 has been futile so far.



Hope the FGP is not doing with a CF grade oil. On the other hand, FIAT has their own ranking for engine oils, so a CF grade oil *may also be* ranked good provided it meets FIAT's requirements...
Quote:
Originally Posted by predatorwheelz View Post
Thank you Doc, exactly the point I was trying to make. Having owned both normal and CRDI diesels, I'm surprised at how much TLC is required for the latter. Keep your CRDI healthy, and you'll be rewarded with performance AND diesel economy. Neglect/abuse it, and you're looking at premature failures and big bills.

@Headers - All CRDI engines require a minimum of CH grade oil.
@ph03n!x you are absolutely right. Infact Mobil Delvac MX is the only mineral oil that I would recommend for new gen BS4 CRDi's / DDIS's

But I also "heard" that Selenia has a CI-4+ grade too.

@predatorwheelz - I drive a CRDi and nothing but the best oil goes in.

For the benefit everyone Delvac 1 the synthetic version of their Delvac oil and the only synthetic recommended for diesels that meet CI-4 and above is available in India in retail packs of 4l and 1l. (Big Thanks to Jaggu for providing the contact with whom this was taken up)

For detailed spec here
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Old 9th February 2011, 11:29   #543
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Default Re: All about Diesel engine oils

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Originally Posted by headers View Post
Nothing wrong with a CF grade oil IMO
If your car engine says minimum grade required is API-CH4, you will be doing a lot of harm with a CF oil, esp if you are filling diesel from metros which has a lower sulfur content.
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Old 9th February 2011, 12:16   #544
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Default Re: All about Diesel engine oils

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
If your car engine says minimum grade required is API-CH4, you will be doing a lot of harm with a CF oil, esp if you are filling diesel from metros which has a lower sulfur content.
The Fiat Grande Punto owners manual recommends SELENIA WR 15W40 - This is a API-CF grade oil. PERIOD
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Old 9th February 2011, 17:06   #545
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Default Re: All about Diesel engine oils

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Originally Posted by headers View Post
The Fiat Grande Punto owners manual recommends SELENIA WR 15W40 - This is a API-CF grade oil. PERIOD
Can let us know what the manual says - does it specify an API standard, or something else, like ACEA (common in European makers - likely used by FIAT) or JASO (this is common among Japanese makers), or even Fiat's own? Fiat has its own oil specification standard like- more info. A bunch of European makes have come with their own standard like VW, Merc, BMW, GM and Ford (for their European models), Renault, Peugeot, etc.

Like I said an oil maybe API-CF (going by its API rating - which is not supposed to be good for my car), but may meet the ACEA standard (say ACEA A5) or FIAT's standard (like Fiat 9.55535-N2) that the manufacturer would go by.

I drive a Getz CRDi, and Hyundai goes by API - I need API CH4 or higher. DOT

Last edited by ph03n!x : 9th February 2011 at 17:12.
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Old 9th February 2011, 17:42   #546
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Default Re: All about Diesel engine oils

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Originally Posted by ph03n!x View Post
Can let us know what the manual says - does it specify an API standard, or something else, like ACEA (common in European makers - likely used by FIAT)
The Oil can says

" SAE SW-40 | ACEA B3/B4 | API CF | MB 229.3 | VW502.00/505.00| GM-LL-B-025 | BMW LONGLIFE-98 | FIAT 9.55535 N2 C.T.R No F515.D06"


It is manufactured by Petronas! Found something interesting from the internet quoted below:


OEM standards divergence


By the early 1990s, many of the European original equipment manufacturer (OEM) car manufacturers felt that the direction of the American API oil standards was not compatible with the needs of a motor oil to be used in their motors. As a result many leading European motor manufacturers created and developed their own "OEM" oil standards.
Probably the most well known of these are the VW50*.0* series from Volkswagen Group, and the MB22*.** from Mercedes-Benz. Other European OEM standards are from General Motors, for the Vauxhall, Opel and Saab brands, the Ford "WSS" standards, BMW Special Oils and BMW Longlife standards, Porsche, and the PSA Group of Peugeot and CitroŽn. General Motors also has the 4718M standard that is used for the Chevrolet Corvette, a standard that is used in North America for selected North American performance engines, with a "Use Mobil 1 only" sticker usually placed on those cars.[citation needed]
In recent times, very highly specialized "extended drain" "longlife" oils have arisen, whereby, taking Volkswagen Group vehicles, a petrol engine can now go up to 2 years or 30,000 km (~18,600 mi), and a diesel engine can go up to 2 years or 50,000 km (~31,000 mi) - before requiring an oil change. Volkswagen (504.00), BMW, GM, Mercedes and PSA all have their own similar longlife oil standards.[citation needed] Another trend of today represent midSAP (sulfated ash <0,8 wt.-%) and lowSAP (sulfated ash <0,5 wt.-%) engine oil (see specifications: Renault RN 0720, FORD WSS-M2C934-A). The ACEA specifications C1 to C4 reflect the midSAP and lowSAP needs of automotive OEMs. Furthermore, virtually all European OEM standards require a long drains of 30.000 km and up by using HTHS (High Temperature, High Shear) viscosity, many around the 3.5 cP (3.5 mPa∑s). In Japan, the HTHS figures are low as >2.6 mPas.
Because of the real or perceived need for motor oils with unique qualities, many modern European cars will demand a specific OEM-only oil standard. As a result, they may make no reference at all to API standards, nor SAE viscosity grades. They may also make no primary reference to the ACEA standards, with the exception of being able to use a "lesser" ACEA grade oil for "emergency top-up", though this usually has strict limits, often up to a maximum of Ĺ a litre of non-OEM oil.

Courtesy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_oil


Cheers

Last edited by headers : 9th February 2011 at 17:53.
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Old 9th February 2011, 22:50   #547
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Default Re: All about Diesel engine oils

Quote:
Originally Posted by headers View Post
The Oil can says

" SAE SW-40 | ACEA B3/B4 | API CF | MB 229.3 | VW502.00/505.00| GM-LL-B-025 | BMW LONGLIFE-98 | FIAT 9.55535 N2 C.T.R No F515.D06"


It is manufactured by Petronas!
There goes - the oil is API-CF which is "bad" for, say a Hyundai i20 CRDi and Getz CRDi. But it is FIAT 9.55535 N2 compliant, which means
Quote:
Qualification for lubricants with a very good characteristics for turbocharged engines, Diesel and gasoline, with extended drain. Minimum requirement is ACEA A3/B4-04.
Source

So here is the question:
If Maruti's DDiS and the Fiat Quadrajet are essentially the same, shouldn't the DDiS also do well with this oil - even though it is API-CF?

Can someone post a scan of the engine oil requirement from a Maruti DDiS and Fiat Quadrajet manual?
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Old 10th February 2011, 14:52   #548
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Default Re: All about Diesel engine oils

how much does Mobil Delvac cost???I was quoted 4600 for 4 litre can with 10% discount from a dealer in cochin.Is it that expensive???He said its fully synthetic.
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Old 10th February 2011, 15:35   #549
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Default Re: All about Diesel engine oils

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Originally Posted by garyjacob View Post
how much does Mobil Delvac cost???I was quoted 4600 for 4 litre can with 10% discount from a dealer in cochin.Is it that expensive???He said its fully synthetic.
Mobil Delvac 1 is fully synthetic, price seems about right for retail. Mobile Delvac MX is mineral, is ~250 bucks a liter in retail.
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Old 10th February 2011, 15:53   #550
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Default Re: All about Diesel engine oils

thanks bro.got the quote for Mobil delvac mx.its 1445 for 5 litres.seems good enuf.iam getting that for my 10k service of my dzire vdi which is due tomorrow.
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Old 10th February 2011, 23:53   #551
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Default Re: All about Diesel engine oils

Can anybody list down the API CH4 rated oils (Synthetic) available in India. Most seems to be CF rated only
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Old 10th February 2011, 23:54   #552
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Default Re: All about Diesel engine oils

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Originally Posted by ph03n!x View Post
There goes - the oil is API-CF which is "bad" for, say a Hyundai i20 CRDi and Getz CRDi. But it is FIAT 9.55535 N2 compliant, which means
Source

So here is the question:
If Maruti's DDiS and the Fiat Quadrajet are essentially the same, shouldn't the DDiS also do well with this oil - even though it is API-CF?
It all depends on the state of tune of the engines in the respective cars. In the FIAT and TATA vehicles they are in a sedate state of tune and in the Maruti they are in slightly higher state of tune thats the reason for the sudden rush of torque in the Swift which is absent in the FIAT and TATA vehicle. Oil requirements will vary for this point alone. It all depends on the torque output of the engine at varied rpms and the ability of the oil to resist shearing.
For example after getting a remap done on the car your oil change intervals will be more frequent and the oil itself will have to meet exacting standards.
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Old 11th February 2011, 00:23   #553
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Default Re: All about Diesel engine oils

I picked up Reliance branded oil today - 1400 for 6 litres. Its CI rated. Oil change on sat will keep all posted.
The car is a turbo indica. Will be doing an oil flush pre oil change (47000km done)
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Old 11th February 2011, 00:43   #554
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Default Re: All about Diesel engine oils

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Originally Posted by drpullockaran View Post
It all depends on the state of tune of the engines in the respective cars. In the FIAT and TATA vehicles they are in a sedate state of tune and in the Maruti they are in slightly higher state of tune thats the reason for the sudden rush of torque in the Swift which is absent in the FIAT and TATA vehicle. Oil requirements will vary for this point alone. It all depends on the torque output of the engine at varied rpms and the ability of the oil to resist shearing.
For example after getting a remap done on the car your oil change intervals will be more frequent and the oil itself will have to meet exacting standards.
We can be pretty sure the Maruti's imnplementation in the Swift / DZire DDiS would still be lesser than the engine in the Manza / Linea, sheerly for the VGT, and the additional power / torque? Then the example you have given does not really stand.

Lets put up the specs of our respective Diesel mills and see if we can come to some sort of a conclusion. I go first

Car: Hyundai Getz GVS CRDi
Engine: Hyundai 1.5 liter CRDi I4 VGT - 110 BHP / 240 Nm
Oil: SAE 15W-40, API CH4
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Old 11th February 2011, 18:04   #555
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Default Re: All about Diesel engine oils

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Originally Posted by ph03n!x View Post
We can be pretty sure the Maruti's imnplementation in the Swift / DZire DDiS would still be lesser than the engine in the Manza / Linea, sheerly for the VGT, and the additional power / torque? Then the example you have given does not really stand.

Lets put up the specs of our respective Diesel mills and see if we can come to some sort of a conclusion. I go first

Car: Hyundai Getz GVS CRDi
Engine: Hyundai 1.5 liter CRDi I4 VGT - 110 BHP / 240 Nm
Oil: SAE 15W-40, API CH4
I would need torque graphs to explain any further. Oil shearing takes place at lower rpm and also at higher rpm due to insufficient oil pressure. It all boils down to the sudden build up of torque at particular rpm for both states of tune and the pressure which the oil pump is providing at those rpm's. I cannot go any further without graphs as there will be too much of speculation. Both companies might have different life expectancies from the same engine. Remember that a few years ago FIAT was adamant to not release CRDI engines here due to the quality of diesel and lubricants though they were one of the pioneers in that technology but market forces over rode their thinking. Metallurgy did improve over the years but even so their VGT engines are still in a milder state of tune than when compared to the same engine dishes out abroad even though we have higher content of sulfur lubricant in our diesel thats sold in India.
Just watch out for the torque graph of the SX4 when compared to the Linea. I am sure there will be more oomph in the SX4.

On a side note: Do these engines carry the same quantity of oil in their sump? I do not know.
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