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Old 4th March 2009, 03:51   #16
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Ooh. A supercharger. Thats a welcome change from all the turbocharger projects we've been seeing on Team-BHP.

Regarding the continuous running, i really dont see a problem, as ananth mentioned above. I just hope it is in decent condition.

Regarding the custom trigger for the clutch on the RD ECU, here is the answer straight from the horses mouth! > http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/783399-post38.html

Do keep this thread updated!

cya
R
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Old 4th March 2009, 04:06   #17
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Mercedes is the only company I know that put a clutch on a supercharger. Even that idea did not last very long.

Does this pulley have a clutch on it? If not, are you planning to use an A/C clutch?

As far as durability, note that there are'nt really any rubbing parts on an SC to cause wear. only thing U need to worry is heat.
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Old 4th March 2009, 06:48   #18
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Yes, an intercooler with minimal pressure loss is what I would recommend. Especially at 10 psi.

Pardon me if I sound condescending, but you do realize that the fuel and spark maps have to be re-calibrated once the supercharger is in right? Just making sure you dont blow your engine up thinking the RD will adjust to this change just because its programmable.
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Old 4th March 2009, 07:15   #19
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interesting thread..please keep us updated. How much did the SC cost you at pudupet?
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Old 4th March 2009, 08:33   #20
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@mpower the clutch is attached to the pulley itself. Its visible in the photos. The sc came with the clutch.

@ananth i do know about the fuelling and spark requirements. We have'nt come that far yet. Our experience so far is limited to tinkering around with the maps in na. I still have some learning to do. And of course before we get to start the car, i'll try and put up the fuel and spark maps here before actually trying it out

@headers picked it up for 10k.
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Old 16th March 2009, 21:46   #21
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Update - Had the supercharger opened up. Everything looked like how they should be to my eyes Did some more test runs in the esteem in NA mode. Basically trying to get a feel of the AFRs. So far have managed to get a pretty decent enough fuel map. Running roughly about 13.7-14s in most of the regions.

Next up - Try and figure out the ignition table. That has been a big enigma so far. Also have to provide a simulated narrow band input from the innovate wide band to the stock ecu. Without the feed back the stock ecu shuts off after prolonged high rpm runs.
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Old 1st April 2009, 14:53   #22
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Update - Picked up yet another supercharger. This time from my friend who manufactures / rebuilds turbos. He had it with him for quite some time as a sample. The order never went through so I am now the proud owner of a Merc Kompressor

Its a Eaton one. Trying to figure out which model it is. Have sent a email to the company's customer care with the id number.

Will be going ahead with this SC instead of the other one as this is in a very good shape. New never used before.

Still stuck with tuning the car in NA. Once the NA tuning part is over the SC will go in. Keeping fingers crossed.
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Old 1st April 2009, 19:13   #23
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Wow, a super-charged Esteem ! I think that's a first while you seem to be on an SC buying spree lately. Good luck with the project. You might want to stop by Psychos new article on supercharging as well.

Please share the driving report (and timings) once you have her running on the blower.
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Old 1st April 2009, 19:20   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Wow, a super-charged Esteem ! I think that's a first
There is one already in Bangalore.
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Old 1st April 2009, 20:24   #25
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Infact, There's a supercharged OHC in chennai.
I've seen a setup in a swift and it looked awful. No change in fueling/ignition at all. Was running with a stock ECU.
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Old 1st April 2009, 20:50   #26
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There's a supercharged OHC Vtec in Blore.. Man that car is fassst!! Work on it must have finished in Dec I think cuz the car was at Race Dynamics in Jan for tuning as it ran in the Deccan Quat mile..

If I am not wrong.. it did some 14+ sec.. run
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Old 7th April 2009, 12:19   #27
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Found this link

CAPA : Eaton Superchargers

From the graph, I find that they have either a 5psi operation or a 10 psi operation.

At 5psi, 6500 rpm, the SC supposedly moves 150 cfm. At the same 5psi, 10000rpm, the SC moves 200 cfm.

Also from about 4000 rpm SC speed till 10000 rpm, the temperature rise ( Delta T ) is more or less constant. So I can assume that the SC efficiency zone is in the range of 4000-10000 rpm ? This can also be seen in the power required to drive the SC chart. After 10000 rpm the power required to drive the SC also increases.

So going by this I am planning to run the SC at 6500 rpm (max) with a 1:1 drive from the crank pulley. I am not sure how to do this, have to work out the details a little later. Am I right to assume the crank pulley rotates at the same speed as the crank in the esteem?

If this is ok, then the SC should be putting out close to 150cfm at 5psi. This should roughly translate to about 100 bhp ( rough fiigures I remember from some long time back ). The power required to drive the SC is around 5 bhp at this point. So should have theoretically 95 bhp at the crank. That is like a 10 bhp raise from stock or 11% increase.

Will this be a good starting point because even if I end up making some miscalculations some where I should have enough of safety margin.

Also have to calculate how much the injectors can take before maxxing out. Guess I'll have to upgrade the injectors and fuel pump before targetting for the 200cfm mark.

Edit - What is the relation between psi, CFM and the power gains to be had? I am guessing for a given engine at a given psi ( 5psi in this case ) the max air it can flow is dependent on the head design and cam profile. Is this right? If this is the case then what will be the max CFM we can see with a esteem 1.3L engine, head ported and polished.

Last edited by Harrie : 7th April 2009 at 12:34.
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Old 7th April 2009, 13:08   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrie View Post
So going by this I am planning to run the SC at 6500 rpm (max) with a 1:1 drive from the crank pulley. I am not sure how to do this, have to work out the details a little later. Am I right to assume the crank pulley rotates at the same speed as the crank in the esteem?
Yes the pulley turns at the same speed as the crank.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrie View Post
Edit - What is the relation between psi, CFM and the power gains to be had? I am guessing for a given engine at a given psi ( 5psi in this case ) the max air it can flow is dependent on the head design and cam profile. Is this right? If this is the case then what will be the max CFM we can see with a esteem 1.3L engine, head ported and polished.
- PSI is the pressure you will hold on the intake manifold (Typically presurised air that can not be pushed into your cylinder)
- Yes the flow is dependent on the head design, valve sizes (both intake and exhaust) and cam profile. The port in addition is also a critical part of this equation.
- You will need a flow bench to calculate that, but roughly about 125 cfm in stock form but ported and polished would be tough to measure with the right equipment.
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Old 7th April 2009, 13:34   #29
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If I am running the SC at 5psi, 10000 rpm at 200 cfm. This should on paper give approximately 130 bhp at the crank. Because I am running at only 5psi, the internals will not be stressed much right? Does this mean if i can lose some efficiency and somehow manage to reach 250cfm, the engine will produce around 160bhp without having to go in for forged internals?
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Old 7th April 2009, 14:33   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrie View Post
If I am running the SC at 5psi, 10000 rpm at 200 cfm. This should on paper give approximately 130 bhp at the crank. Because I am running at only 5psi, the internals will not be stressed much right? Does this mean if i can lose some efficiency and somehow manage to reach 250cfm, the engine will produce around 160bhp without having to go in for forged internals?
Your math is wrong, the flow rate of the SC is 200 CFM does not mean that the engine is going to flow that much. @ 5PSI you will be able to push in an additional 29% air in volume over 125 cfm.
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