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Old 9th February 2017, 23:33   #136
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Default Re: Is it time to change the Timing Belt?

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Originally Posted by hothatchaway View Post
In fact, timing chains are found primarily on diesel engines AFAIK with rubber belts for a majority of petrol engines.
Not sure about the Indian market, but on a more global scale that is not necessarily true. Still plenty of (petrol) cars with timing chain / gear instead of belt:

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/faq/chain-cam

As mentioned earlier. On some cars/engine you can see the timing chain easily by opening the oil filler gap. For instance on my Alfa Romeo engine you are actually pouring the oil on top the chain.

If in doubt, there are a few other tell tales as well which will tell whether you have a belt of a chain. Lots of youtube video’s out there. Here is one:



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Old 11th February 2017, 10:37   #137
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Default Re: Is it time to change the Timing Belt?

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Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
Not sure about the Indian market, but on a more global scale that is not necessarily true. Still plenty of (petrol) cars with timing chain / gear instead of belt:


Jeroen
Thanks. Would you know what is usually used (belt/chain) in motorcycle engines - especially the modern FI ones with SOHC/DOHC set ups?

I know you have a bullet but I guess that is a pushrod type, too ignorant to tell whether that needs a timing belt
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Old 11th February 2017, 10:52   #138
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Default Re: Is it time to change the Timing Belt?

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Originally Posted by hothatchaway View Post
Thanks. Would you know what is usually used (belt/chain) in motorcycle engines - especially the modern FI ones with SOHC/DOHC set ups?

I know you have a bullet but I guess that is a pushrod type, too ignorant to tell whether that needs a timing belt
Sorry, I know next to nothing about motorcycles. I have only owned one and that is my 1975 Bullet which had pushrod. They are driven by gears/cams.

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Old 11th February 2017, 19:40   #139
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Default Re: Is it time to change the Timing Belt?

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Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
Not sure about the Indian market, but on a more global scale that is not necessarily true. Still plenty of (petrol) cars with timing chain / gear instead of belt:
Which OHC engine uses a geartrain for crank to cam drive? (The only ones which come to mind are the Kawasaki W (bevel gear).)

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Old 11th February 2017, 20:25   #140
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Default Re: Is it time to change the Timing Belt?

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Originally Posted by a*ed View Post
I went to collect my car in the evening today and the SA opened the engine cap (the cap that needs to be opened to fill engine oil) and showed me that it's in fact a timing chain and not a timing belt in the K10 engine. He was in fact surprised that I asked for a timing chain replacement since they are more durable compared to a timing belt and are supposed to last for the entire lifetime of the engine.

There's one more belt called the drive belt or the serpentine belt which provides power for the A/C, power steering etc.

The drive belt can be viewed when we pop the hood up, in the side of the engine, whereas the timing chain/belt is inside the engine casing.
Recently I have changed my swift VDI timing chain ,as per service adviser timing chains for diesel vehicles and timing belts for petrol vehicle .I have changed at 125000KM. Belts are cheaper when compared to chains.
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Old 11th February 2017, 21:01   #141
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Default Re: Is it time to change the Timing Belt?

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Originally Posted by balechaparka View Post
Recently I have changed my swift VDI timing chain ,as per service adviser timing chains for diesel vehicles and timing belts for petrol vehicle .I have changed at 125000KM. Belts are cheaper when compared to chains.
Just wanted to know if TATA uses timing belt or timing chain in their Quadrajet diesel engine (Same Fiat sourced used in Swift also)? The service center guys advised me to change the timing belt on 80k.
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Old 11th February 2017, 22:17   #142
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Default Re: Is it time to change the Timing Belt?

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Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
Which OHC engine uses a geartrain for crank to cam drive?
The most notable that springs to mind is the varies incarnation of the Toyota F series engine, i.e. 2F, 3F, etc. I believe they all have gear driven gear.

Jaguar used them too in the original XK series I believe?
Varies Fords (Bronco),

Varies Nissan Td engines over the years.

The Ford (Lotus) late Indy engines.

To be honest, Iím not sure how many or which of the above are overhead cam, but they are definitely gear driven.

Again, I have no experience with bikes, but I came across this interesting picture:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...d299faf5c8.jpg

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Old 12th February 2017, 21:42   #143
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Default Re: Is it time to change the Timing Belt?

Question looses all relevance if we are not discussing OHCs. Gear driven side cam designs are a dime a dozen. Petrol was mentioned by you. I should have added the tags "modern" and "production". No matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
The most notable that springs to mind is the varies incarnation of the Toyota F series engine, i.e. 2F, 3F, etc. I believe they all have gear driven gear.
I might be wrong, but cursory googling shows these to be side cam engines.

Quote:
Jaguar used them too in the original XK series I believe?
My friends XK120, with its 'must look right' gorgeous DOHC most certainly has a chain drive. So would love to learn more.

Quote:
Varies Fords (Bronco),
Once again would love to know more, as I find it doubtful. (The gear driven OHC part) The Vs would have the cam nestled in the V, not the head.

Quote:
Varies Nissan Td engines over the years.
Once again, I might be wrong, but cursory googling shows initial part of the drive to be a timing chain.

Quote:
The Ford (Lotus) late Indy engines.
Almost certainly correct. Another race exotic, the Weslake also had a similar setup. The compromise set is different for race engines.

Quote:
To be honest, I’m not sure how many or which of the above are overhead cam, but they are definitely gear driven.
You remember which were gear driven, but not if those were OHCs.
Even today if someone asks me which of XD3/ XDP (engines I was quite familiar with at one time) had a chain drive, and which a gear drive, I have to think a moment. No such hesitation if someone asks me their cam configuration.

Quote:
Again, I have no experience with bikes, but I came across this interesting picture:
Modern bikes normally use chains.
A number of older bikes (and some modern bikes) used a bevel gear drive for the OHC. As did (an old) Bentley.

Regards
Sutripta

Last edited by Sutripta : 12th February 2017 at 21:52.
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Old 12th February 2017, 23:08   #144
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Default Re: Is it time to change the Timing Belt?

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Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
I should have added the tags "modern" and "production". No matter.
You know me, I donít do much modern.

The most modern car in my fleet is nearly 16 years old. Has a timing chain and potentially unreliable tensioners. Actually, all my current cars have chains. Not sure what my wifeís Fiesta has. Never looked at it yet.

At my age, my memory isnít what it once was either. Even so, lots of gears on the engines I mentioned, be it OHC or not.

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Old 16th February 2017, 01:38   #145
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Default Re: Is it time to change the Timing Belt?

I replaced the timing belt of my 2002 model Zen in 2014 with ~85,000 kms on the odometer. The belt showed no signs of wear and the mechanic said that it was good enough for another 30-50 thousand kms. If the engine is of the non-interference design, one need not worry much.
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Old 16th February 2017, 02:20   #146
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Originally Posted by fighterace View Post
If the engine is of the non-interference design, one need not worry much.

What is a non interference design?
Thanks
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Old 16th February 2017, 03:27   #147
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Default Re: Is it time to change the Timing Belt?

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Originally Posted by fighterace View Post
I replaced the timing belt of my 2002 model Zen in 2014 with ~85,000 kms on the odometer. The belt showed no signs of wear and the mechanic said that it was good enough for another 30-50 thousand kms..
Guess what, when I changed the belt of my 5 Speed 800(which is an interference engine BTW), it was almost 14 years old, and had survived for 2.5lac kms. It was still supple and didn't have any cracks/fissures. I didn't wish to take any risk, so this time I changed it. One must also check the tensioner and change it proactively.

I still have that belt lying around somewhere, and the last time I checked it, it was still as good as new.

BHPian Saket77 also had a similar experience when he checked timing belt of his 2002 Zen MPFI.



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Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
What is a non interference design?
Thanks
Jeroen
Quoting google,

Quote:
An interference engine is a type of 4-stroke internal combustion piston engine in which one or more valves in the fully open position extends into any area that the piston may travel into. By contrast, in a non-interference engine the piston does not travel into any area into which the valves open
In layman terms, in interference engines, the valve and piston move in a common volume, and the only reason why they don't collide, is because they are in that space at different times. If the belt breaks, then all timing will become useless, and the piston because of its intertia will hit the valves and bend them/damage itself. So if a timing belt breaks in an interference engine, it will damage the engine requiring some extensive work.

In a non interference engine, when the belt snaps, your car will stop. That's it. No damage will happen.

Most of the 2V/cylinder layout Marutis had non interference design, whereas their MPFI counterparts with 4V/cylinder layout have interference designs.

Hope I'm clear.

Regards,
Shashi

Last edited by Leoshashi : 16th February 2017 at 03:34.
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Old 23rd February 2017, 03:07   #148
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Default Re: Is it time to change the Timing Belt?

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What is a non interference design?
Thanks
Jeroen
Sir, I hope the previous post has answered your question. Sorry for the delay. I believe that you will be using a different terminology for the same.
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Old 23rd February 2017, 12:08   #149
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Default Re: Is it time to change the Timing Belt?

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Originally Posted by fighterace View Post
Sir, I hope the previous post has answered your question. Sorry for the delay. I believe that you will be using a different terminology for the same.
Thanks, no problem. I did not recognise this term.

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Old 26th February 2017, 02:15   #150
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Default Re: Is it time to change the Timing Belt?

I have a Ford Ikon 1.3 Petrol with 106K kms on the ODO, 2008 Model.
When asked the service guy whether it comes with timing chain or belt, he was clueless and told me he would call me back after enquiring. After an hour received a call saying it comes with Timing Chain and whole set needs to be replaced and the cost would be around 8k + labour and taxes. He told me it needs to be changed every 5 years or 120k kms (whichever is earlier).
Shall I get it changed as I am thinking to sell the car in about 6-7 months or will it last?
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