Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Technical Stuff


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 2nd July 2009, 14:26   #166
Team-BHP Support
 
Vid6639's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 14,465
Thanked: 19,358 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vdiatech View Post
I am not a very technical person when it comes to cars . So, instead of calling this a marketing gimmick, I would rather opt for their product over any other un-tested product. Like say...better this than a blind faith in a brand which is not even proving things in the above manner.
What about actual customers who are actually testifying that there is a marked improvement in their cars?

I think that should be the best proof anyone could have.

I'm running on OWS for more than a year in my Lancer. Read this post for more details on actual test that I had done.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-...ml#post1004482
Vid6639 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd July 2009, 14:29   #167
gpa
Senior - BHPian
 
gpa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,772
Thanked: 273 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cyclops View Post
Anyways, I m getting the 360 probably next week in Pune. My alto has done around 19k, I will be changing oil at the specified 20k mark, mostly Castrol mineral oil or at the most magnatec. Is an engine flush recommended at 20k? Or rather will it be actually helpful? Does the soot built-up starts at 20k?

Also, is 360 recommended before the engine flush/oil change or after that..
Cyclops,

An engine flush wil help clean the insides of your engine. Soot and carbon build up starts right from the day you start using the car and would have accumulated over the past 20k kms. A flush will rid the engine of this and also other gunk that tends to build up in the engine over time.

IMO, the 360 will work best after the flush and service.
gpa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd July 2009, 14:34   #168
Team-BHP Support
 
Eddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Delhi
Posts: 7,399
Thanked: 4,672 Times
Default

Guys, can someone PM me Farhaan's number.
Eddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd July 2009, 14:59   #169
BHPian
 
vdiatech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 413
Thanked: 7 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vid6639 View Post
What about actual customers who are actually testifying that there is a marked improvement in their cars?

I think that should be the best proof anyone could have.

I'm running on OWS for more than a year in my Lancer. Read this post for more details on actual test that I had done.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-...ml#post1004482
yes ofcourse, user feedback, their experiences matter a lot. But again, there are always people who differ for eg on K&N or other filters, on different brand oils etc. Like how few things work for some and few dont !

After the OWS engine flush/engine protector, for how many KMs or months does the engine feel like its in top condition?
vdiatech is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd July 2009, 15:16   #170
Team-BHP Support
 
Vid6639's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 14,465
Thanked: 19,358 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vdiatech View Post
After the OWS engine flush/engine protector, for how many KMs or months does the engine feel like its in top condition?
Well it's like any other engine oil. It needs to replaced after around 10,000kms or can also last more depending on conditions on use.

The flush does not need to be done often. Generally around 40,000kms or if your a fanatic and want your car in best condition always then 20,000kms.

The effect of OWS 360 fuel system cleaner lasts for a few months as the injectors are bound to get clogged after a few months.

In my case car still feels good after a year and 9,000kms. No need to change the oil but need to do a OWS 360 soon.
Vid6639 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd July 2009, 15:32   #171
BHPian
 
mtnrajdeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 647
Thanked: 87 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ibm_jennifer View Post
No, Use only recommended level of fuel. Diluted will not effective. But clean your Fuel injectors thru a professional spray machine atleast once in 50k.
I think I was unclear in my question. I tanked up recently and I am facing issues with the car performance that is very similar to when adulterated diesel is used (lot of smoke, acceleration stops after certain RPM). So, If I use OWS 360 or Flashlube in the recommended quantity, will it be atleast reduce the effects of adulterated fuel?
mtnrajdeep is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd July 2009, 16:08   #172
BHPian
 
vdiatech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 413
Thanked: 7 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vid6639 View Post
Well it's like any other engine oil. It needs to replaced after around 10,000kms or can also last more depending on conditions on use.

The flush does not need to be done often. Generally around 40,000kms or if your a fanatic and want your car in best condition always then 20,000kms.

The effect of OWS 360 fuel system cleaner lasts for a few months as the injectors are bound to get clogged after a few months.

In my case car still feels good after a year and 9,000kms. No need to change the oil but need to do a OWS 360 soon.
I will probably try the 220 with my magnetec and the OWS 360 in a tankful instead of system G . I cant afford the OWS oil at the moment. I am due a change after 2 K kms. Will update then. Cheers and thenka for the info
vdiatech is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd July 2009, 16:51   #173
Senior - BHPian
 
PatienceWins's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 2,157
Thanked: 261 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ibm_jennifer View Post
No, Use only recommended level of fuel. Diluted will not effective. But clean your Fuel injectors thru a professional spray machine atleast once in 50k.
I find that Hyundai is charging labour of 260 for Injector Cleaning and 90 for Throttlebody Cleaning as part of regular service.

Is it recommended to do Injector Cleaning during every service? Please note that only labour charge is involved here, no consumables.
PatienceWins is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd July 2009, 17:33   #174
Senior - BHPian
 
normally_crazy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 4,367
Thanked: 387 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
Guys, can someone PM me Farhaan's number.
LOL Eddy, you lazy fellow - PM Farhan instead of someone pming you his number ..haha
normally_crazy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd July 2009, 18:10   #175
BHPian
 
ibm_jennifer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Chennai
Posts: 529
Thanked: 7 Times
Default

Quote:
Hyundai is charging labour of 260 for Injector Cleaning
I hope its on-car cleaning. Almost same as using OWS 360. What I recommend at 50k is Off-car cleaning, you have to remove the injectors from the car and give it to Bosch or Lucas to check the spray patterns to make sure there aren't any streamers or problems. Sometimes you may need to reverse flush the injectors based on the deposits inside them to avoid clogging. I used to off-clean my injectors once in 3 months in my old 412 boat engine, but not necessary for a car.
ibm_jennifer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd July 2009, 19:39   #176
Team-BHP Support
 
Eddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Delhi
Posts: 7,399
Thanked: 4,672 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by normally_crazy View Post
LOL Eddy, you lazy fellow - PM Farhan instead of someone pming you his number ..haha
Did that too

Got the number from Suman and HappyWheels first so the strategy worked.
Eddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd July 2009, 20:50   #177
Team-BHP Support
 
Jaggu's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 17,742
Thanked: 7,449 Times
Default

EDIT DISCLAIMER: Am talking about modern high tolerance engines which have a default life of 2 lakh kms, sometimes goes to 3 lakh plus. Proof i can provide with snaps of cylinder block and pistons from a 60k kms run Crv engine. No flushing whatsoever but regular mineral oil change at 5k kms. Ref: https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/1324162-post68.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by ibm_jennifer View Post
No, its just a statement from one of the biggest marine diesel engine manufacture in China. I trust them and follow it for my boat - but not in my car. Just use your brain and continue the process as usual.

I am sure my statement is not 100% True, but not 100% False until one can prove it wrong by opening up his engine.

Better avoid unnecessary brand change with your blind trust over a engine flush!. Engine Flushes do nothing, Here is my proof: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/access...ization-2.html

Believe me or not, its even not with the old oil. I HAVE CHANGED MY ENGINE OIL ONLY TO TEST OWS 210. But OWS works. It may be good for cleaning - but not for cleaning out the entire carbon or old oil.

I don't trust OWS until someone can take this challenge and open up his engine to prove me that OWS did MAGIC to his engine. That doesn't mean, you should not trust OWS. Its not bad at all and I love OWS 220 very much. I am just here to say avoid using your Car for unnecessary brand tests/comparison...

Also still now I dont find the logic of using old oil for an Engine Flush? How can you clean your toilet with the toilet water?
Let me start on a lighter note, why would one believe any thing that has chinese written over it, unless its food!

Unless you frequently change the grade of oils, or use very extreme blends of oil, there is absolutely negligible impact from change of brands as far as i know with modern automotive engines.

Engine flush if used regularly will give you pretty decent long lasting trouble free engine, please understand that engines are designed to take some amount of gunk in it. We are just reducing the amount of harmful oxidation and hard to remove gunk by doing flush. Yes one can go to extremes and use flush + flushing oil every 5k kms to keep the engine innards shining BUT cost benefits will be pathetic.

Manual decarbs are good BUT do we need to do it every 50k kms? Absolutely NOT! even if you do it, your engine will require an overhaul (minor one atleast) at 1.5 to 2 lakh kms and at that time you can do / will need to do the full clean up.

I would rather keep the engine healthy by using cleaning agents regularly and they will last the same. Aatleast in my experience, without any flush agents but flushing oil and regular oil change i had a zen engine run perfect for 1,50,000 kms. Performance drop will happen but it will be negligible and no amount of manual decarb will help avoid this metal wear out, maybe it will delay it by another couple of 1000 kms at the max. So is it really worth it, in my books NO! Unless its a 2 stroke engine where nothing but manual decarb works.

As far as toilet theory goes, one can always use flushing oil to rinse out the old oil and gunk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnrajdeep View Post
Would the OWS 360 or Flashlube help if I have a tankful of adulterated diesel (just a guess though) in my car?
It says it will help in minor water condenstation etc But no if its hard adulteration, take it to a garage and clean out and refill fuel and lines.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vid6639 View Post
The flush does not need to be done often. Generally around 40,000kms or if your a fanatic and want your car in best condition always then 20,000kms.
If you are a fanatic do it at 5k kms, 20k is optimum if you are particular. 40k is border line, from my experience of observing just the valve guides.

Quote:
What I recommend at 50k is Off-car cleaning, you have to remove the injectors from the car and give it to Bosch or Lucas to check the spray patterns to make sure there aren't any streamers or problems. Sometimes you may need to reverse flush the injectors based on the deposits inside them to avoid clogging. I used to off-clean my injectors once in 3 months in my old 412 boat engine, but not necessary for a car.
Another possibility is that they use injector cleaning machines for modern electro-mechanical injectors (dont know if its the right term) they do a good job (spray pattern). Once clogged beyond a point, i would rather replace them though it will cost 5-10k depending on make and model.

Earlier days with pure mechanical plungers it was harder, since recalibration/overhaul was required. So best option was to use Bosch or Lucas service. Mostly thats the case with marine engines i guess.

Last edited by Jaggu : 2nd July 2009 at 21:06.
Jaggu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd July 2009, 21:33   #178
BHPian
 
ibm_jennifer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Chennai
Posts: 529
Thanked: 7 Times
Default

Quote:
Let me start on a lighter note, why would one believe any thing that has chinese written over it, unless its food!
Its not written anywhere in the engine, but one of the visiting engineer from China/Weifang came to kochin and provided this comment at me for my boat. May be its only applicable to Marine Diesel Engine, but I am sure he is not a fool like a TATA engineer: WEICHAI POWER CO.,LTD

I just provided the statement here as I though it may be helpful to someone, but as usual I am kicked off.

Quote:
Unless you frequently change the grade of oils, or use very extreme blends of oil, there is absolutely negligible impact from change of brands as far as i know with modern automotive engines.
It's True as I cant prove it wrong.


Quote:
Manual decarbs are good BUT do we need to do it every 50k kms? Absolutely NOT! even if you do it, your engine will require an overhaul (minor one atleast) at 1.5 to 2 lakh kms and at that time you can do / will need to do the full clean up.
Agreed, But which additive do you recommend if the car looks like this after OWS & Mobil-1: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/1008596-post79.html

Quote:
Earlier days with pure mechanical plungers it was harder, since recalibration/overhaul was required. So best option was to use Bosch or Lucas service. Mostly thats the case with marine engines i guess.
Its true and the olden days Bosch pintle valve type injectors needs regular cleaning. Now a days GM offers a self-cleaning type Multec injectors which doesnt need cleaning.

Last edited by ibm_jennifer : 2nd July 2009 at 21:53.
ibm_jennifer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd July 2009, 22:37   #179
Team-BHP Support
 
Jaggu's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 17,742
Thanked: 7,449 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ibm_jennifer View Post
Agreed, But which additive do you recommend if the car looks like this after OWS & Mobil-1: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/1008596-post79.html
Diesel engines will have more soot, but definitely controllable if one sticks to service schedules, 5000 km oil change and flush at 20k kms interval, flushing oil will help in rinsing also. Best part they can take lot more of gunk compared to petrol engines without causing harm.

No offence to any fans, but i dont consider this engine to be the best built or designed engine. That doesnt mean its absolutely bad also BUT it shows big time signs of bad combustion and carbon deposits even for a diesel engine. If you check the engine innards after 10k kms of manual decarb, you would have more or less same mess back (maybe lil less on head and valves thats all). Hence i wouldn't go through all that pain unless its prescribed by manufacturer (yes they know the best).

Not that am a fan of honda but look at the pics i posted @62,000 kms, this one has no decarbing or flush done ever. Difference is good design and regular oil change Car has mostly run in city conditions.

As far as recommending flushing products, i would go with "search" feature here.

Another major point, for me dis-assembling a perfectly working factory assembled engine is absolute NO-NO, well thats just me.

Last edited by Jaggu : 2nd July 2009 at 22:40.
Jaggu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd July 2009, 22:53   #180
BHPian
 
ibm_jennifer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Chennai
Posts: 529
Thanked: 7 Times
Default

Quote:
Diesel engines will have more soot,
A Diesel Engine Head after 60k : http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/985358-post50.html

A Petrol engine Head after 62k : http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/1008596-post79.html

Quote:
Difference is good design and regular oil change
I agree with Piston Design. But I change my oil at 3-4k interval, never at 5k. Last time I changed at 2k and now waiting for 3k.

Quote:
Hence i wouldn't go through all that pain unless its prescribed by manufacturer (yes they know the best).
I dont agree this with TATA/Maruthi. May be true with Honda / Hundai.

Quote:
Not that am a fan of honda but look at the pics i posted @62,000 kms, this one has no decarbing or flush done ever.
You are right, No flush products used and look it at 60k: https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/1324162-post68.html

Quote:
As far as recommending flushing products, i would go with "search" feature here.
What's my point HERE is "CAN ANYBODY HERE PROVE that this FLUSH Products actually WORKS?"

I just proved that None of the Flush products works even in Petrol/Diesel car. I just opened up my engine for that. Why you all ARE Recommending or Advertising people to use the Flush/Additives without knowing the truth? Is it because the people who sells them are members of this site?

Why CAN'T the so called OWS suppliers at TBHP open up a Engine head "BEFORE" and "AFTER" a flush?

I am not saying OWS is bad, Why this much of advertising for a 'snake oil' here? IS THERE ANY PROOF that IT dId any magic before? I never asked anybody to do Manual Decarb - I know its a waste of time - And 99% time its useless. I just here to say stay away from the so called Additives. See this head without any Additives: https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/1324162-post68.html

See the condition of my Engine Head after trying almost ALL the additives available in INDIA: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/985358-post50.html

Carbon deposit is not a joke which wont come out even with sulphuric acid. We have used 2 Bosch drilling machine to take them out the the engine. How OWS will remove them? Even 10%?

Your Vitamins dont know which are the Moving parts and which are the small holes inside the engine. What will happen if it blocks the bores?

If anybody think me I am stupid, just prove it or stop recommending snake oils to other people and avoid them crying like: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/1008596-post79.html

Last edited by ibm_jennifer : 2nd July 2009 at 23:12.
ibm_jennifer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Now Honda launches Civic 1.8V with some goodies samirsarkar The Indian Car Scene 103 26th March 2008 17:09
Mini Swift goodies up on sale a4_attitude Shifting gears 0 3rd April 2007 19:08
Wanted Castor based 2t oil or OWS 2t cbr1000f Shifting gears 0 20th January 2006 11:28


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 17:36.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks