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Old 15th April 2009, 03:26   #31
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Originally Posted by kb100 View Post
Dont worry about the AC - it just signifies more load. Mass Flow Sensor or mass Air Flow Sensor is a sensor that detects the amount of air/oxygen available. You will find this sitting right where the plumbing from the engine connects to the air filter box. both when our filter is unclean, or the sensor is dirty, it reads less oxygen and dumps more fuel to compensate - this leads to smoke.

I will not recommend a STORM kind of filter in a diesel engine - esp Accent/Elantra. Given the space it will be less effective than your stock replacement filter - please bear in mind that diesels run much hotter, and also the fact that this has been experimented with and discarded (in favour of the stock replacemnt filter).
kb100 if this experiment has been carried out on stock boxes being better please, eloborate and enlighten us on the same, i would like to know how it was tested and how are the stock boxes better.

i might just go back to the stock box from this filter if am enlightened thank you!
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Old 15th April 2009, 10:56   #32
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Originally Posted by rider60 View Post
kb100 if this experiment has been carried out on stock boxes being better please, eloborate and enlighten us on the same, i would like to know how it was tested and how are the stock boxes better.

i might just go back to the stock box from this filter if am enlightened thank you!

I dont guarantee any enlightenment - but please speak to Peter himself.

They have experimented with this on various cars - and on some cars the 'storm' type has given better results, and in some cars it has not - Hyundai cars is one of them!

Elantra for example already has a positive CAI as OE. There are enough people who have tried the other and reverted to the stock replacement.

According to Sameel the OE stock filter is more than enough for up to Stage 1 settings on the Petes box.

The most important thing to remember is this - It is a proven fact that the K&N lets in a lot more dust than the OE filter! That is the trade off for better air-flow. Threfore the MAF continues to need a shot of compressed air every 5000Ks or so. This has been my personal experience. (I have both the K&N replacement filter and the Petes box!)

EDIT - in the absence of proper plumbing to ensure DIRECT COLD AIR intake, all these universal filters actually detract more than they add! If you look at OE systems - the route is mostly direct - its has an effect of 'ramming' air into the box (while moving that is!). Plumbing - length, bends, pipe dia, filter surface area etc can all add/detract from this. A universal filter left exposed in the bay can only add induction noise/roar, giving you a feeling of going fast - while actually imparting a performance dip in real life!

Last edited by kb100 : 15th April 2009 at 11:08.
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Old 15th April 2009, 12:00   #33
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Originally Posted by kb100 View Post
I dont guarantee any enlightenment - but please speak to Peter himself.

They have experimented with this on various cars - and on some cars the 'storm' type has given better results, and in some cars it has not - Hyundai cars is one of them!

Elantra for example already has a positive CAI as OE. There are enough people who have tried the other and reverted to the stock replacement.

According to Sameel the OE stock filter is more than enough for up to Stage 1 settings on the Petes box.

The most important thing to remember is this - It is a proven fact that the K&N lets in a lot more dust than the OE filter! That is the trade off for better air-flow. Threfore the MAF continues to need a shot of compressed air every 5000Ks or so. This has been my personal experience. (I have both the K&N replacement filter and the Petes box!)

EDIT - in the absence of proper plumbing to ensure DIRECT COLD AIR intake, all these universal filters actually detract more than they add! If you look at OE systems - the route is mostly direct - its has an effect of 'ramming' air into the box (while moving that is!). Plumbing - length, bends, pipe dia, filter surface area etc can all add/detract from this. A universal filter left exposed in the bay can only add induction noise/roar, giving you a feeling of going fast - while actually imparting a performance dip in real life!

Now you are talking KB, see the thing is that, For people like me and Mobike who enjoy occasional Maverick kind of start offs the Verna offers, which we do on our beloved RED BEASTS, the stock filter IMO wouldnt just have enough air!

The main thing is the Plumbing I totally agree, i took some time off and achieved the first Plumbing setting in the Picture 1, but after that dint have enough time and dint drive the car for a while, Dad drives it these days and i couldt get my hands on it.

More over just like in the Pic 1, more than Half of the pipe's diameter is above the radiator fan where the cooler air partly gets sucked in and the rest of the air is sucked in from behind the radiator fan.

Now i will make sure i find some time, and do the necessary Plumbing to achieve the set up in the second pic, which will be the stock location from where the stock box sucks cooler air.


So for our cramped engine bay this Plumbing should do just fine, and should be better than the stock replacement, i say this again and again, because the Maverick inspired hard riding, heavy foot acceleration and instant rushing out and all that is our style of driving once in a while, so the lesser air offed by the stock box at disposal, isnt it one of the reasons?
all i am saying is that, that car atleast needs a storm filter with proper plumbing.


Man i am running 195/60-R15 MXV8 on my accent for the past 10K kms and the car has now done 48K odd KMs, and i have had no problems with the Strom or the car.

well on second thoughts, if the bigger open filter is such an issue wouldnt building a custom CAI around the bigger filter help, just like saw it in other safari threads???
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Pete'd Viva CRDi: Smoking All !!!-accent-bay-sketch-2.jpg  

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Old 15th April 2009, 12:28   #34
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Rider60

Firstly, I am basing whatever I say on info gleaned from people who have already tried it - I have not experimented with anything on my own. Neither am I remotely an expert on these things.

Secondly - guess theoretically you are correct BUT according to Sameel (he works with bosch and is familiar with both the engine, the ECU , injection systems etc), the stock replacement filter supplies more than enough air to meet the demand of the Accent/Elantra CRDi engine even with the Petes box in stage two. In other words - you can put as big a filter as you want - with NO ADDED ADVANTAGE - the engine and the fuel maps have no need for the additional airflow you may be able to generate/provide. You may be better off removing the cat con and other obstructions in the exhaust instead!

However, if you plan to add an intercooler and play around with boost etc, then the requirement for both air and fuel will change - this is what brraj is trying to do in the the Boosted Elantra thread with the piggy back ECU and the new HKS filter.

There may be other complex (or even simpler) explanations... this is what I have garnered!

LAST but not the least - THIS INFO IS SPECIFIC TO THE ACCENT/ELANTRA CRDi ENGINES - hence relevant to Mobike008. You on the other hand seem to have the Verna - Sameel will be the best person for info on that!

Last edited by kb100 : 15th April 2009 at 12:35.
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Old 15th April 2009, 13:58   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kb100 View Post
Dont worry about the AC - it just signifies more load. Mass Flow Sensor or mass Air Flow Sensor is a sensor that detects the amount of air/oxygen available. You will find this sitting right where the plumbing from the engine connects to the air filter box. both when our filter is unclean, or the sensor is dirty, it reads less oxygen and dumps more fuel to compensate - this leads to smoke.

I will not recommend a STORM kind of filter in a diesel engine - esp Accent/Elantra. Given the space it will be less effective than your stock replacement filter - please bear in mind that diesels run much hotter, and also the fact that this has been experimented with and discarded (in favour of the stock replacemnt filter).
Thanks Sujit. I guess the first step is to clean in 3 steps that you advised-Filter, MAF, Blow compressed air. Then if it does not work then probably go to steps that Invincible and Rider60 have recommended.

EDIT: Another offtopic question, i haven't changed my brake pads since i bought the car. Should i? The brakes still feel damn good. What say? Done 37K kms

Quote:
Originally Posted by dinar View Post
Hey Avi, get the air filter cleaned, and MAF cleaned. this should give you a difference.
By way the if your running the box on the highest setting CAI is a good idea.Have found a big differnce with this on a swift.
PS: How many KM has the engine completed? get the engine flushed.
Thanks Dinar, I am on Stage 1 setting since i am not too keen to go to Stage 2 without a proper CAI. As on today, it has done 37K kms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kb100 View Post
LAST but not the least - THIS INFO IS SPECIFIC TO THE ACCENT/ELANTRA CRDi ENGINES - hence relevant to Mobike008. You on the other hand seem to have the Verna - Sameel will be the best person for info on that!
Rider60 lives next to my house and incidentally he too has the same car as mine and same color too. And, oh boy for a young engineering student he has earned himself a small reputation of a DIY specialist of some sorts.

Last edited by mobike008 : 15th April 2009 at 14:01.
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Old 15th April 2009, 17:59   #36
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Originally Posted by mobike008 View Post
Rider60 lives next to my house and incidentally he too has the same car as mine and same color too. And, oh boy for a young engineering student he has earned himself a small reputation of a DIY specialist of some sorts.

Oh!! My mistake.. and my apologies as well!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rider60
For people like me and Mobike who enjoy occasional Maverick kind of start offs the Verna offers, which we do on our beloved RED BEASTS, the stock filter IMO wouldnt just have enough air!
That was the part that gave me the impression he had a Verna.

Now, on re-reading my post I also feel it is a little curt - perils of multitasking (was typing that as I was on the phone!). It was not meant to be - Rider 60 - my apologies for that as well !
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Old 15th April 2009, 18:10   #37
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@Thanks Sujit

Btw, can you offer your inputs for the brake query in my previous post?
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Old 15th April 2009, 18:23   #38
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Originally Posted by kb100 View Post
Rider60

Firstly, I am basing whatever I say on info gleaned from people who have already tried it - I have not experimented with anything on my own. Neither am I remotely an expert on these things.

Secondly - guess theoretically you are correct BUT according to Sameel (he works with bosch and is familiar with both the engine, the ECU , injection systems etc), the stock replacement filter supplies more than enough air to meet the demand of the Accent/Elantra CRDi engine even with the Petes box in stage two. In other words - you can put as big a filter as you want - with NO ADDED ADVANTAGE - the engine and the fuel maps have no need for the additional airflow you may be able to generate/provide. You may be better off removing the cat con and other obstructions in the exhaust instead!

However, if you plan to add an intercooler and play around with boost etc, then the requirement for both air and fuel will change - this is what brraj is trying to do in the the Boosted Elantra thread with the piggy back ECU and the new HKS filter.

There may be other complex (or even simpler) explanations... this is what I have garnered!

LAST but not the least - THIS INFO IS SPECIFIC TO THE ACCENT/ELANTRA CRDi ENGINES - hence relevant to Mobike008. You on the other hand seem to have the Verna - Sameel will be the best person for info on that!
That's true, but a CAI would make a difference as the amount of oxygen in the same volume of air would increase. Simple test, drive your turbodiesel early in the morning when the air is cool and late afternoon when the air is hot... for the same throttle position, the engine will be noticeably more responsive when it's cooler. For those with intercoolers, rigging up a system to spray water over the IC makes a noticeable difference as well. Its not a very complicated mod and doesn't involve any tinkering with the engine itself
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Old 15th April 2009, 18:28   #39
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Originally Posted by mobike008 View Post
@Thanks Sujit

Btw, can you offer your inputs for the brake query in my previous post?
Front brake pad change is a part of the 40k service. As is change of all fluids - engine, gearbox, coolant, etc. (except brake & PS).

I always get my brake checked at each service - I get them changed by the time they reach about 85% of their life.
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Old 20th April 2009, 03:08   #40
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... and any updates Mobike008??
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Old 20th April 2009, 07:19   #41
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Originally Posted by mobike008 View Post
@Thanks Sujit

Btw, can you offer your inputs for the brake query in my previous post?
Check how much pad thickness is left on the front disc pads. You can do that yourself at home by taking the tyres off and you should be able to see the pad thickness through the calipers. Disc Pad life depends on how you use brakes, but they tend to wear out faster than the rear always. Rear drum brake shoes generally last a long time. My car has done about 1.07L and the rear shoe has not been changed yet. But have changed the front about 4 times i think.

Last edited by MileCruncher : 20th April 2009 at 07:21.
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Old 20th April 2009, 10:41   #42
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Question Getz CRDi with Pete's n K&N stock replacement

I did not want to start a new thread so adding my post in here. Well I have the same problem with excess smoke if I accelerate hard, not matter what time of the day especially in the second and third gears. I though well its diesel fart , now its a bit irritating when I watch my rear view mirrors.

Status of the installs.

Pete's (stage 0 or normal setting) - 2000 km run as of today
K&N Stock replacement filter - less than a month old run less than 1000 kms

What can I do to check on the excessive smoking?

I know checking with Peter is an option, but any other thing that I should know???
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Old 20th April 2009, 12:12   #43
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... and any updates Mobike008??
On Saturday, I simply followed your advice and did the following :-

1. Cleaned the Green Cotton replacement filter with the cleaning kit. Unfortunately, the oil bottle was misplaced therefore, just used the cleaning fluid and cleaned it thoroughly and used the hair blower to get the dust out of the filter. My god, the water was jet black when i washed the filter.

2. Since i coudn't go to a service station and make use of their compressed air, i just cleaned the entire engine bay using a wet cloth.

Result :
I see a significant reduction in smoke when the car is running with A/C. As we all know the smoke is quite visible under the headlight of cars behind you, so i tried accelarating in 2nd and 3rd gear in the night with a car behind me and checked the ORVM and saw the smoke was still there but reduced considerably.

I tried the same test in broad daylight and even with AC on, i couldnt spot any smoke at all.

I did the same test with A/C off during day and night, I just couldnt see any smoke at all. Finally deduced, smoke is evident when the A/C is on and almost none when it is switched off.

So folks, should i rest my case or should i still do a check during my next service which is due in another 1.5K-2K kms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MileCruncher View Post
Check how much pad thickness is left on the front disc pads. You can do that yourself at home by taking the tyres off and you should be able to see the pad thickness through the calipers. Disc Pad life depends on how you use brakes, but they tend to wear out faster than the rear always. Rear drum brake shoes generally last a long time. My car has done about 1.07L and the rear shoe has not been changed yet. But have changed the front about 4 times i think.
My dear Ani, i dont even know how to change a tyre and your asking me to check the brake pads on my own

My car has done 37K kms and brake pads havent been changed even ONCE. So, i am a bit suprised because the brakes still function pretty good.


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Originally Posted by anarchist View Post
I did not want to start a new thread so adding my post in here. Well I have the same problem with excess smoke if I accelerate hard, not matter what time of the day especially in the second and third gears. I though well its diesel fart , now its a bit irritating when I watch my rear view mirrors.

Status of the installs.

Pete's (stage 0 or normal setting) - 2000 km run as of today
K&N Stock replacement filter - less than a month old run less than 1000 kms

What can I do to check on the excessive smoking?

I know checking with Peter is an option, but any other thing that I should know???
Try the steps i described above and see if there is some reduction in smoke. If no, then go for a CAI as most people here are suggesting.
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Old 20th April 2009, 16:11   #44
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I raised this question on pete's website and phat came the reply, the excess smoking could only be due to excess oil on the new K&N Filter, I am going to try putting back the stock filter and check if the smoking continues if it doesnt, then get the K&N cleaned and reduce the oil used on the filter once its clean and dry. This Thursday will be focused for on doing the above, will come up with the results and I sure do hope it works and reduces the excess smoke.
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Old 20th April 2009, 16:22   #45
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You dont pour liters of oil on filter for cleaning dont you ? . May be for couple of kms after installing the filter the oil might be sucked down . You are saying that even after first 2-3 kms later , the oil still remains there and the engine keeps sucking it for thousands of kms . Thats not a convincing LOGIC .
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