Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Technical Stuff


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 3rd July 2008, 17:53   #16
BHPian
 
abhik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 848
Thanked: 8 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by amitverma View Post
i've gained some confidence abt the install. but just for information's sake, how much does an ECM cost - Palio 1.2?
ECM Cost???- if you mean the stock one, why do you want to know, its mighty expensive but if your question is related in anyways to CNG installation then dont even bother as it would'nt be touched upon unless its a sequential kit in which a piggyback ECU of sorts would be installed or a closed loop kit in which the Lamda would be indirectly connected to the ECU.
Dont worry about the ECU.
abhik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th July 2008, 14:53   #17
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Delhi
Posts: 6
Thanked: 0 Times
Default Cng

Hi

I also plan to get CNG installed in my Palio
Any recommendations on the dealer

Can I get a CNG kit installed on a vehicle having UP registration ?
I have recently relocated from Calcutta and my vehicle has a WB Number

I guess to convert to CNG I will have to get number converted first ,then only it can be endorsed on RC/govt approved

I hope for CNG Delhi number is not mandatory !
Freyr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th July 2008, 01:07   #18
BHPian
 
amitverma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 346
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

i talked to a service engineer at a-one motors today and he again advised me against getting a cng install done. now im all ready to get the install done but these warnings are just eating me up.

i desperately need the cng economy but im too chicken to risk my car's health.
pls help.
amitverma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th July 2008, 02:19   #19
BHPian
 
abhik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 848
Thanked: 8 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by amitverma View Post
i talked to a service engineer at a-one motors today and he again advised me against getting a cng install done. now im all ready to get the install done but these warnings are just eating me up.

i desperately need the cng economy but im too chicken to risk my car's health.
pls help.
Amit there will be a ton of people saying all sorts of things without any factual support. And i hate such comments by such people who would not the basics of how CNG is used in a car, the concept and theory of working and still pass coments on CNG not being good for a car.
Ford also told me not to go in for CNG for my Ikon and when i had it running on CNG and running well they took the number of my fitter themselves to get cars fitted.
You never risk your cars health on CNG its just a misinformation.
Fiats, Fords, Opels have sophisticated ECMs/ECUs and many people dont want to mess with them because they dont know what system to use with cng i.e closed loop or open loop, where to fix the TAP i.e on the crank sensor or lamda maps etc. and quite a few fitters dont even have the devices and guages to set the Lamda.
There are lots of technicalities which goes into CNG fitment and a lot of fitters have absolutely no clue of how to fit CNG in the best manner to suit a particular car.
Frankly speaking service engineers at many different companies have no clue when you go into a deep technical conversation, i have experienced it myself with Opel, Ford and Maruti Suzuki people.
Try and ask a Ford guy what PSI boost is the Endeavour running or the Fiesta running and they wont even have a clue of what you are talking about, hell i even got a response that the Fiesta TCDi is NOT turbocharged!!! And this was my reaction. So i asked him what did he think TCDi meant for him and i got some wierd fullform.
If the company people at the service centers calling themselves "Service Engineers" have no clue about their own product how on earth do you expect them to tell you about an alternative fuel.
abhik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th July 2008, 03:13   #20
BHPian
 
abhik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 848
Thanked: 8 Times
Default

Sorry for mistakingly writting TCDi for TDCi.

Mods: The editing time expired before i realised the mistake, please pardon me for the same.
abhik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th July 2008, 03:38   #21
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Mpower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 10,432
Thanked: 1,682 Times
Default

Locate someone with an identical car running on CNG and test drive it and get and idea of problems. Then decide if its your cuppa tea. Other than the fact that you are starting with an underpowered car, I see no reason why.
Mpower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th July 2008, 04:05   #22
BHPian
 
abhik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 848
Thanked: 8 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpower View Post
Locate someone with an identical car running on CNG and test drive it and get and idea of problems. Then decide if its your cuppa tea. Other than the fact that you are starting with an underpowered car, I see no reason why.
I second that. 1.2 being underpowered due to the weight of the Palio is not the best of options for CNG conversion as there will be an approx 5-10% power loss in CNG due to characteristics of gas which can however be compensated with a timing advancer, high-flow filter and a cat-back or complete FFE. Best of all a closed loop kit consisting of a Lamda control should work to the Palio's advantage and minimize power loss to very little.
abhik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th July 2008, 12:40   #23
BHPian
 
amitverma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 346
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpower View Post
Locate someone with an identical car running on CNG and test drive it and get and idea of problems. Then decide if its your cuppa tea. Other than the fact that you are starting with an underpowered car, I see no reason why.
thats the main issue. i havent come across anyone who has a CNG kit fitted in their palio. while i do understand that the car would face a strong lag in performance but i reckon when i wud have CNG fitted i wud not hesitate to drive in higher revs, isnt it?
do not confuse me with a boring driver. i am all for performance and high revving but when u see the fuel gauge needle coming down like a rocket, you tend to switch to a more subtle driving style. monetory issues is a....#$%^&.
amitverma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th July 2008, 12:48   #24
Team-BHP Support
 
Eddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Delhi
Posts: 7,397
Thanked: 4,667 Times
Default

Amit, are you still game for CNG ? the queues outside filling stations are humongous. Unless you have some contacts at one of the pumps, you will have to invest a lot of time getting your car filled every second day.
Eddy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 27th July 2008, 23:31   #25
BHPian
 
abhik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 848
Thanked: 8 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
Amit, are you still game for CNG ? the queues outside filling stations are humongous. Unless you have some contacts at one of the pumps, you will have to invest a lot of time getting your car filled every second day.
Just find a Petrol Pump with a CNG dispensing machine and a compressor = Less vehicles, less waiting time, faster and better quantity filling with good pressure.
I found one and at any given time it takes max 15-17mins to fill up if there are more cars and max 7-9mins with lesser cars, which is less if you compare the others (IGL stations) which have a long long queue and a minimum of 20-25mins waiting.
abhik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd August 2008, 22:01   #26
Team-BHP Support
 
Eddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Delhi
Posts: 7,397
Thanked: 4,667 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by abhik View Post
Just find a Petrol Pump with a CNG dispensing machine and a compressor = Less vehicles, less waiting time, faster and better quantity filling with good pressure.
Why would that be ? I mean, why less rush at a petrol pump instead of the IGL station?
Eddy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd August 2008, 23:49   #27
Distinguished - BHPian
 
phamilyman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Gurgaon
Posts: 5,601
Thanked: 3,451 Times
Default

Completely agree with Abhik/Eddy. You need to budget 15 min on the average to fill up every two days or so (any more and you dont need CNG ). Of course, if you're unlucky, half an hour is no sweat.

If you got a driver, lovely. Also, each station has its quirks. The mehrauli ones have humongous queues courtesy gurgaon cabs. There are stations in gurgaon which see queues too (there's one near park plaza, near the pizza hut). But like the one in VK, going evening means no buses and little queues at night ensures ~10 min fuelling.

that said, please give one chhapped to the service advisor. 1.2 NV was sold with CNG under warranty option by the same dealers around Nov-Dec 06. Its just that the fellows are in general incompetent.

@Eddy: With lesser pressure, its a pain for the taxiwalas, who would refuel once a day if not more. So for them, getting max refueling is key. Hence they prefer the VK one instead of the radisson one though post 10 both are easy.
phamilyman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th August 2008, 09:07   #28
BHPian
 
abhik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 848
Thanked: 8 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
Why would that be ? I mean, why less rush at a petrol pump instead of the IGL station?
Most people presume they would get higher pressure at an IGL station and the petrol pump does not have CNG written, so unless people see a queue outside they dont know if the place has CNG availability.
abhik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th August 2008, 21:31   #29
Senior - BHPian
 
Deeps's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Delhi/Noida
Posts: 1,090
Thanked: 67 Times
Default

There are N number of Palios running on CNG. The best thing i have heard so far on this thread is to go and talk to Palio users at CNG pumps.

The TATA/fiat dealers would probably discourage you from cng because of the problems that Xeta faced on CNG. Anyways, these guys aren't very knowlegeable in any case so dont take their word for it.

BTW, I heard that in Mumbai every petrol bunk is required to have atleast 2 CNG vending machines. Its about time such an idea was implemented in Delhi.
Deeps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th August 2008, 21:32   #30
Senior - BHPian
 
Deeps's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Delhi/Noida
Posts: 1,090
Thanked: 67 Times
Default

Abhik, Are you the guy I met at Janpath on an afternoon a few weeks back checking out the palio??
Deeps is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
CNG Oil Change - Regular or any CNG specials? panky12345 Technical Stuff 5 20th May 2016 11:56
Wagon R LXI CNG Vs Wagon R VXI + CNG Kit ajay387 Hatchbacks 37 7th October 2013 22:54
Company Workhorse : New Eeco 5 seater CNG or Used Dzire + CNG kit? NMM What Car? 2 4th February 2013 19:29
Swift Lxi (CNG Fitted) vs Santro GLS (CNG) coolaxe Hatchbacks 18 28th June 2012 16:58


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 11:31.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks