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Old 29th June 2009, 13:53   #181
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Originally Posted by white_vdi View Post
my ddis had not been feeling the same way since a long time now. the turbo used to spool at around 2500rpm. also my engine used to die randomly on pressing the clutch. showed my car at my workshop and i dont know what did they do but she feels eager to run now. acceleration both pre and post 2000rpm has improved. turbo kicks in at exactly 2k mark.
will ask them what did they do and update you guys at the earliest.
Have fun, the kick is main USP of the car

My car after clutch fiasco is back to her purring days, turbo kicks in at 2200 rpm in 2nd and the kick sure is vicious, vicious enough to send the front tyres in a torque steer when the road is wet, loving it.

Cleaning the Airfilter every 2000 km is the key here, i religiously do it and it keeps the kick just as fun as it was from day one.

Also i drove a Brand new DDIS Dezire which had done 700 km and the kick in 2nd gear was at 2200 rpm!
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Old 29th June 2009, 13:59   #182
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I didnt get your question? you mean to say difference in car response when it was new & now old. If thats what you meant then probably it could be due to clogged air flow. You should see the turbo & air filter when its new & after 1 year of running you should see the turbo by removing compressor cover & Turbine outlet, you will notice amount of dust/smug accumulated typically black color, try cleaning that with a new air filter & see the response. also check your exhaust system for restriction.

I do this once in a year on my own turbo given that we drive in indian weather condition with plenty of dust around,it helps maintain same performance level & not to forget Oil lines going to turbo it should not be clogged. You can check that by removing oil line going to turbo & just direct the outlet to inside of tappet cover (oil cap) so if oil comes, it goes directly back to engine, if oil level is less due to clogged oil line going to turbo then the turbo does not get required enough lubrication & due to excessive heat the bearings inside the turbo starts to deteriorate there by reducing the air flow & loss in power and ultimately turbo failure.

Hi,
Is the same procedure applicable for a non optimal turbo performance in a scorpio crde 2.6?

tnx
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Old 29th June 2009, 14:53   #183
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just asked my SA and he said they did recalibration of some sensor. dint tell me the details but what ever he told me was similar to resetting the ECU. was not present with the car so dont exactly what was done.
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Old 29th June 2009, 15:46   #184
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Any updates ripper??
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Old 2nd July 2009, 13:10   #185
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Default 1.5 Months Later - Turbo is back!!

Been more than a month since my last post and after deciding to just wait till my VDi sorts itself out, the patience has borne fruit . The turbo kick came back home yesterday.. The factors which I can attribute this to are listed below (I'm just listing them as per my feeling - no real logic to back up any of my so called "factors" ) :
  1. The Odometer reads 12345 Kms . The relevance of this is that my service advisor had told me that the Swift's ECU kind of 'resets' every 3000 Kms and starts adapting to driving style all over again. So at 12k it would have started "re-learning".
  2. Changed my petrol pump (the COCO pump opposite RTO, Pune gave me a pathetic 15 kmpl on my last tankful, so decided to tank up on another COCO pump on the Mum-Pune Expressway). This time the mileage seems to have reached new heights - 630 Kms from tankful and the gauge is still slightly above the E mark.
  3. Went on a 300 km road trip in relatively cool weather with a few bursts at 160 kmph (as shown on the speedo).
One of the things I noted was that the turbo kick was missing on my way to office in the morning and just kind of reappeared with a vengance on my way back home (took me by surprise when I was starting from a red light and I almost rear-ended a couple of bikes). This was the first day after my road trip and the fuel indicator was just above E. I don't know if the fuel level has anything to do with it. I haven't observed any blue/black/white smoke from my car at all - the only time I have seen traces of black smoke was when the service station guys had revved my car like crazy during the turbo test with Tech2 plugged in.

The only other change I have noticed with the 'kick' coming back is that the engine seems to be a little rougher now, I can feel the vibrations through the steering wheel at engine speeds below 1500 rpm. The clatter from the engine is also more pronounced now - in fact similar to when the car was new.

In any case, I'm thrilled to have the surge back - long rides have now been added in my service manual as a part of my regular maintenance routine :-) , WooHoo!!
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Old 2nd July 2009, 14:52   #186
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Its good to know that BBT. I need to take a test drive of your car soon
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Old 6th July 2009, 12:50   #187
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Default Boost totally gone.

This is the SECOND time I'm facing this problem.

About 2 months ago, my DDiS seemed to lose most of it's boost... boost started coming later and later... the problem started getting worse day by day. Took it to Vitesse, they cleaned out the intercooler, and voila... problem solved.

BUT.....the boost never came back 100%. Drove a friend's VDI... and his boost comes in earlier, delivers more punch, and ends later. Mine comes late, delivers less punch, and finishes early. Now, it's totally gone, AGAIN!! Second time in two months!!

SYMPTOMS:

1. Boost comes late.
2. Less kick from the turbo compared to my friend's VDI (both cars around 9 months old, 14k kms).
3. Boost ends early.
4. Engine now behaves like it's normally aspirated.
5. Smokes quite a bit... much more than normal.
6. Engine's still extremely smooth though... smoother than my friend's VDi.

I'm pretty sure oil/soot/some impurity has gotten into the turbo.. but the point is that even the last time when they cleaned it out, the performance wasn't as good as other Swift-Ds.

Also... why would the problem come back within 2 months? Trust me, my driving style isn't at fault here. I care for my car a LOT. I always let the engine idle for about 30 seconds when starting and shutting off. I never lug the engine at low rpms. I don't thrash it either. And she's always well maintained.

Do I need to ask MASS to replace the turbo/intercooler under warranty? Will they do it? What I'm worried about is if they just clean it again, this is going to be a chronic problem I have to live with, and that's not acceptable to me.

Last edited by ghostrider : 6th July 2009 at 12:53.
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Old 6th July 2009, 15:39   #188
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Originally Posted by ghostrider View Post
This is the SECOND time I'm facing this problem.

About 2 months ago, my DDiS seemed to lose most of it's boost... boost started coming later and later... the problem started getting worse day by day. Took it to Vitesse, they cleaned out the intercooler, and voila... problem solved.

BUT.....the boost never came back 100%. Drove a friend's VDI... and his boost comes in earlier, delivers more punch, and ends later. Mine comes late, delivers less punch, and finishes early. Now, it's totally gone, AGAIN!! Second time in two months!!

SYMPTOMS:

1. Boost comes late.
2. Less kick from the turbo compared to my friend's VDI (both cars around 9 months old, 14k kms).
3. Boost ends early.
4. Engine now behaves like it's normally aspirated.
5. Smokes quite a bit... much more than normal.
6. Engine's still extremely smooth though... smoother than my friend's VDi.

I'm pretty sure oil/soot/some impurity has gotten into the turbo.. but the point is that even the last time when they cleaned it out, the performance wasn't as good as other Swift-Ds.

Also... why would the problem come back within 2 months? Trust me, my driving style isn't at fault here. I care for my car a LOT. I always let the engine idle for about 30 seconds when starting and shutting off. I never lug the engine at low rpms. I don't thrash it either. And she's always well maintained.

Do I need to ask MASS to replace the turbo/intercooler under warranty? Will they do it? What I'm worried about is if they just clean it again, this is going to be a chronic problem I have to live with, and that's not acceptable to me.

Folks,
I know it is the wrong thread because the car in question is a scorpio crde.
After 42 k kms i see the same problems as yours. The A S S refused to touch the turbo and they have sent it to TEL to have atest report.They say they do not believe in diagnostic tools??
Report awaited.

tnx
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Old 6th July 2009, 16:05   #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostrider View Post
This is the SECOND time I'm facing this problem.

About 2 months ago, my DDiS seemed to lose most of it's boost... boost started coming later and later... the problem started getting worse day by day. Took it to Vitesse, they cleaned out the intercooler, and voila... problem solved.

BUT.....the boost never came back 100%. Drove a friend's VDI... and his boost comes in earlier, delivers more punch, and ends later. Mine comes late, delivers less punch, and finishes early. Now, it's totally gone, AGAIN!! Second time in two months!!

SYMPTOMS:

1. Boost comes late.
2. Less kick from the turbo compared to my friend's VDI (both cars around 9 months old, 14k kms).
3. Boost ends early.
4. Engine now behaves like it's normally aspirated.
5. Smokes quite a bit... much more than normal.
6. Engine's still extremely smooth though... smoother than my friend's VDi.

I'm pretty sure oil/soot/some impurity has gotten into the turbo.. but the point is that even the last time when they cleaned it out, the performance wasn't as good as other Swift-Ds.

Also... why would the problem come back within 2 months? Trust me, my driving style isn't at fault here. I care for my car a LOT. I always let the engine idle for about 30 seconds when starting and shutting off. I never lug the engine at low rpms. I don't thrash it either. And she's always well maintained.

Do I need to ask MASS to replace the turbo/intercooler under warranty? Will they do it? What I'm worried about is if they just clean it again, this is going to be a chronic problem I have to live with, and that's not acceptable to me.
Rippergeo, Bala80

I just wanted to clarify that this seems to be the same problem that you guys faced. Turbo performance kept degrading till the point where it seems to be completely gone, and now the car behaves like it's normally aspirated. Also, it smokes under moderate acceleration, especially immediately after a gear change.

Spoke to MASS today, and they've asked me to bring the car in tomorrow morning. My approach is going to be to get to the root of the issue... which I suspect is a faulty turbo/intercooler/seals.

What are the specific things I need to ask them? Vitesse in Mumbai doesn't have a tech2, they have the Suzuki Diagnostic Devices (SDD). Are the readings the same? If not, why readings do I need to look for with the SDD?
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Old 6th July 2009, 19:22   #190
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Ghostrider - From my understanding, SDD is the advanced version of tech2 and specifically for swift diesel. The boost pressure values will be same as tech2 and you can note the ideal values for varying RPM's in one of the post's by Ripper earlier. We still dont have any idea about the benchmark values for swift D and this is one question that has not been answered till date. You can have the boost pressure readings checked and post it here, based on the results can draw conclusions.

Ripper - Is your turbo replacement still due? Its been quite a while now.

As far as my car goes, the boost pressure is almost nil, but i have given up trying to explain the issue to MASS and make them understand. Also, i have wasted ridiculous amount of time, trying to get to the root cause of the problem and i was not getting anywhere. Unless someone comes up with a decisive and concrete answer, i guess i dont have a choice but then to live with this!

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Originally Posted by ghostrider View Post
Rippergeo, Bala80

I just wanted to clarify that this seems to be the same problem that you guys faced. Turbo performance kept degrading till the point where it seems to be completely gone, and now the car behaves like it's normally aspirated. Also, it smokes under moderate acceleration, especially immediately after a gear change.

Spoke to MASS today, and they've asked me to bring the car in tomorrow morning. My approach is going to be to get to the root of the issue... which I suspect is a faulty turbo/intercooler/seals.

What are the specific things I need to ask them? Vitesse in Mumbai doesn't have a tech2, they have the Suzuki Diagnostic Devices (SDD). Are the readings the same? If not, why readings do I need to look for with the SDD?
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Old 6th July 2009, 23:35   #191
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Originally Posted by bala80 View Post
Ghostrider - From my understanding, SDD is the advanced version of tech2 and specifically for swift diesel. The boost pressure values will be same as tech2 and you can note the ideal values for varying RPM's in one of the post's by Ripper earlier. We still dont have any idea about the benchmark values for swift D and this is one question that has not been answered till date. You can have the boost pressure readings checked and post it here, based on the results can draw conclusions.

Ripper - Is your turbo replacement still due? Its been quite a while now.

As far as my car goes, the boost pressure is almost nil, but i have given up trying to explain the issue to MASS and make them understand. Also, i have wasted ridiculous amount of time, trying to get to the root cause of the problem and i was not getting anywhere. Unless someone comes up with a decisive and concrete answer, i guess i dont have a choice but then to live with this!
Thanks Bala. I'm taking the car to Vitesse early tomorrow morning, so I'll keep y'all posted.
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Old 7th July 2009, 12:41   #192
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My turbo replacement is always "next week"

As far as i can see, theses are the readings you need at different rpms.

210kpa at 2000rpm in 3rd gear with pedal to the metal
or,
130kpa at 3000rpm in neutral(verified this on 3 separate swifts a few days ago)
I believe the 1st method is the most reliable indicator of normal turbo performance in this car.
the 2nd method is easier and safer, but I am yet to try it on a Swift with a completely busted turbo to see if that much boost can be made even by a malfunctioning turbo at 3k rpm.

Ghostrider- yes, the symptoms were like you described, gradual drop in performance over many months, ending finally with a NA engine.
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Old 22nd July 2009, 15:48   #193
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Thanks Bala. I'm taking the car to Vitesse early tomorrow morning, so I'll keep y'all posted.
Hi Ghostrider, any updates?
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Old 22nd July 2009, 17:27   #194
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Firstly anyone facing degradation in turbo pull should try cleaning the air filter. I know I know the mass says just bang it to something and not air clean it, but try air cleaning it once and then check out if there is any improvment. If not then look for possible other alternatives. My Air filter gets pretty dirty and clogged in 1800 to 2000 km which is when i always air clean it at the hawa wala. The boost always always always comes back like the original boost after this is done.
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Old 25th July 2009, 04:37   #195
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Hi,
I just wanted to know the tips and tricks to prolong the life of the turbo or the kick. I own a swift vdi which is only 1300 km old and has done its first service,
I rarely use the turbo in 2nd gear( though initially i did), very less in 3rd and fourth and sometimes full throttle in 5th( very rarely too)
I always keep the car between 2000 and 26-2700 rpm and have taken it past 3k rpm only once( in 2nd). This is my driving style and shall remain. I personally like using the kick in 3rd and 4th
I just would like to know if this is the ideal way of using the turbo.
I hope the kick shall remain even after 10k or 20k kms unlike others who apparently seem to have lost it after a specific period of time.
What is the reason for the same ?????
Driving style???
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