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Old 16th August 2009, 09:02   #196
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i never found about this thread.

i have not yet worked on suzuki engine designs. but since the engine is the 1.3 from Fiat i can very well say a few things about the same.

i did have my doubts about swift turbos since the same turbo family read KP35 from 3k turbo manufacturer is used in the ford fiesta and the likes of palio and punto and linea. still. the first OEM in india to use this was the ford fiesta. and till date i have never seen a Fiesta turbo going bust( i havent personally checked the turbo setup in Fiesta but it might be even lacking an intercooler! still i havent heard of any turbo degradation.( fiesta gurus pls check in the fiesta and post whether it has an intercooler or not??)
the trick is the linear tuning. the turbo opens up very gradually.
the aggresive tuning of swift did raise some doubts since all the other OEMs using the KP35 turbo dont tune it such that the driver gets that kick kind of pull!.

only sedate driving or retuning or turbo can solve the turbo issue. nothing else.

there is a chance that the tubo being used in swift is from a third party manufacturer using the design from 3k KP35( to keep costs low! importing from germany is not a good idea cost wise!). then its a high probability that these are not as good as the original ones and dont last that long!
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Old 16th August 2009, 10:10   #197
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The Fiesta does not have an intercooler. True.
It uses the the same KKK brand turbo. not sure if its the same unit. The brand is definitely the same.

Cars that are driven harder, fail earlier. of course.

Turbos degrading in other cars are difficult to catch.
Its easy to find out when the swift's turbo fails purely because the new cars kick like a donkey at 2k rpm. if that kick is missing, you know something is wrong.
OTOH, if a car that has been tuned for linear performance loses its edge a little, no one will really notice, they'll just floor the accelerator harder.
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Old 16th August 2009, 10:20   #198
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ok then your view point so is true to an extent.

and by the way the ECU in swift?? Bosch or magnatti marelli( pardon the spelling mistake)? or some other brands.
remap is not that much broad in india right? in most cases the ECU has to be shipped to remapper probably abroad and then its send back.? hows the swift remapping scenario?
its a torque calculation based ECU for sure.
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Old 16th August 2009, 10:51   #199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas8700 View Post
ok then your view point so is true to an extent.

and by the way the ECU in swift?? Bosch or magnatti marelli( pardon the spelling mistake)? or some other brands.
remap is not that much broad in india right? in most cases the ECU has to be shipped to remapper probably abroad and then its send back.? hows the swift remapping scenario?
its a torque calculation based ECU for sure.
Its a marelli ECU. Same as in the qaudrajet and the linea/punto
Remaps are all done in cochin. no hassle there. takes a few minutes.
The remaps can be used to adjust the fuelling and thereby adjust the way the turbo kicks in. but I dont think there is going to be much demand for a remap that takes the "kick" away and brings in a linear power delivery.

Most damage thats done to the turbo by the driver is when

1.you stomp on the accelerator in lag territory making the turbo spool up like crazy when the rpm hits 2k. its better to gradually increase accelerator input than just stomp on it.

2.redlining the engine and taking the turbo out of its peak efficiency range.


it is actually quite easy to modulate the throttle and prevent the turbokick from happening too prominently at 2k. I have a feeling it will prolong the life of the turbo.

turbo idling after hard running helps, also before taking out the car, first thing in the morning

oil overfilling should be avoided at all costs.the car runs fine on 2.9 liters.

Do not permit anyone to remove your turbo and "clean/inspect" it for you
even if it is the best MASS in the area. They will never be able to put it back together like it came from the factory.

what i'm saying is- if it aint broke, dont fix it.

I went to MASS for a clean and inspection only after the performance of the turbo had dropped below 50%(butt dynamo) after the inspection/clean- I lost everything.
I dont blame MASS for it. It would have happened anyway. They just hastened the process. for that I'm glad, because otherwise the turbo would have failed after the warranty period, which would have left me high and dry.
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Old 27th August 2009, 13:06   #200
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Default ECU Reset at every 3000 Kms - Confirmed?

Long time since this thread was touched, I had a small update/observation. I had posted a little while ago about how I was told that the Swift DDiS ECU "resets" itself every 3K Kms and had reported that I got the turbo kick back at a little over 12000 Kms on the Odo. Well, the same seems to be confirmed after 15000 Kms on the Odo.

First, the background story - I had taken the car on a spin to Goa. The drive was extremely long and the route taken was Pune-Mumbai-Goa-Sawantwadi-Nipani-Pune-Mumbai-Pune (Don't ask why there are so many repetitions, my friends are lazy bums who force me to drop them home, the car's excellent mileage only helps to egg me on in joining their idiotic ideas ).

In any case, coming back to the point. The Odo was somewhere at 14K when I left Pune and there was an error code registered in the ECU due to the fact that I stupidly switched on the car to roll down a window while I had the Air Filter opened up for cleaning.

Once I got back from the drive, the Odo was at around 15500 and the ECU error code light somehow reset itself and started switching off before I started the engine. In addition, overnight, the engine's character changed and went to being somewhat sluggish at low revs while retaining the car's character beyond 2K rpm.

All this leads me to belive that the info that the ECU resets itself at every 3K Kms is correct and this is probably why so many people have reported the sluggishness issue on and off with their Swift DDiS cars.

Can any of the Swift DDiS Pundits confirm whether this observation is indeed correct. Also, I guess the only thing missing in our analysis of this entire issue is actual technical data which we would be able to get only if someone can get their hands on the Service Manual (not the User Manual) of the Swift DDiS.

Rippergeo - my faith rests in you as the most "experimental" DDiS owner to shed somelight on all this.
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Old 27th August 2009, 15:07   #201
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Rippergeo - my faith rests in you as the most "experimental" DDiS owner to shed somelight on all this.
haha, will try. But so far, not heard of anything like that.
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Old 28th August 2009, 23:05   #202
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Hi, I too have Swift VDI which has done more than 17500 Kms & till date havent found increase in the RPM's at which Turbo kicks and more over the turbo kick is pretty much the same as it was when i became the owner of this baby.

However,this is just my observation. Is there Turbo specific data sheet which we can use to compare if really there is increase in lag or not (Would like to get my turbo inspected related to PSI generation this time when i go for 20K servicing). Atleast this data which i will get on Turbo Inspection i can keep as Standard to compare if there is any difference in future.
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Old 17th October 2009, 13:39   #203
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Default What to do next ?

My dad's DDiS

July 2008
227xx Kms

Turbo now kicks in some where around 2300-2400rpm.
The "kick" is still there, but instead of 2000rpm it is now a bit higher.

Did a "soft" reset of the ECU by disconnecting the battery also cleaned air filter. Still the problem remains.

Oil Delvac MX and air filter changed at 20000kms.

Suggestions ?
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Old 18th October 2009, 14:39   #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yzfrj View Post
Oil Delvac MX and air filter changed at 20000kms.

Suggestions ?
Oil delvac Mx or Delvac 1300 ?
Isnt 1300 thinner than the delvac Mx?

Try changing the oil to a slightly thinner one after a flush using old filter but cheap new light oil .
And start warming up the engine for 2/3 min. on idle without switching on ac before starting off immediately on gunning. let the turbo get proper lubrication on idle before being revved. Its a good parctise for turbo diesels anyway.
May help the cause of the turbo and also engine life.
Having a free revving engine for such a small diesel can a be such a curse for both the turbo and the engine parts. As one tends to treat it in a manner of a petrol car without a turbo. Maye lead to premature failure of the turbo and also reduced engine life span.

Last edited by HIGHNOON : 18th October 2009 at 14:40.
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Old 20th October 2009, 12:21   #205
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Exclamation SWIFT Vdi Performance issues

Hello Friends,

I brought a Swift Vdi 7 month back and have already clocked 12,500 kms. My daily driving is around 70 kms with 40% on highways and 60% in city traffic. I usually drive around 80 km/hr on the highways. Consciously never push my pedal beyond 80 km /hr, usually tends to get to the 5th gear as quickly as possible without pushing the RPM beyond 2000.

Last month had the 3rd servicing done. After a couple of weeks I have noticed a huge fall in the performance of my vehicle. Thought to write about this incase anyone of you have experienced the same.

There a massive amount of black smoke emitted whenever I push the accelerator.

The average has fallen from 18 km/ltr to 14.5 - 15 km/ltr. (This car has given me a average of 26/ltr with A/C on for the complete drive in May/June for a long trip 1200 kms to and fro).

The take off effect has decreased.

When I complained this to the MASS they sent their service engineer at my place to check the car. They cleaned the air filter which was quite dirty in just 2000 kms of driving (servicing done at 10240 kms). (I doubt if they had cleaned during servicing). Started the car but the smoke existed as earlier whenever the pedal was pushed hard.

Checked the engine oil level which was correct but the oil was completely black. Can anyone tell if the engine oil in diesel engines turn black in a monthís time?

Then they also opened the turbo pipe. It had some oil inside which they said itís unnatural and according to them thatís was the cause of the problem. They advised me to take it to the get the vehicle at the service station for rectifying the problem.

About the average they said that it may be due to the fault in the turbo pipe and also suggested average test to be done once the problem is rectified with the help of a machine (cost INR 750+tax). Can someone confirm if that's required with the cost associated with the same?

Also they suggested that instead of checking the average full tank to full tank one should fill the tank then drive for 100 kms and then again have a full tank. Unsure how this will work out since in 100 kms as according to me itís quite a short distance to check and may not be the proper method to check.

The car does not give any other problem and is quite smooth. But especially in the night driving on the highways without street lights one can see a lot of smoke emitted whenever the car is pushed to higher speed. Please note I just don't "take off" from the signals but attain the speed by shifting gears at the right time.
The smoke is noticed only when the car is pushed around 4/5th gear but at constant speed it is not visible (have checked with a friends car following me).

Appreciate if anyone can throw some light on these problems. Thanks.
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Old 20th October 2009, 12:25   #206
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Could be a case of overfill of engine oil. Can you confirm how much quantity did they fill during last service ? Check the bill.
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Old 20th October 2009, 12:53   #207
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The service guys who visited you did the right thing, first suspect air filter - Cleaning or replacement helps here. Second is oil level, never fill more that 3.1 liter while replacing oil and filter and 2.9 if its oil alone.

Since they have found oil in turbo plumbing, there seems to be an overfill that has happened OR a bust turbo oil seal. I suggest you escalate to Maruti regional engineer and make him take a look. If its a turbo issue then MUL has to cover it under warranty since your car has run only 12k kms.
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Old 20th October 2009, 16:28   #208
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Thanks have got an appointment for this Saturday 24th Oct 09. Will update about what happens...
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Old 20th October 2009, 17:07   #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HIGHNOON View Post
Oil delvac Mx or Delvac 1300 ?
Isnt 1300 thinner than the delvac Mx?

Try changing the oil to a slightly thinner one after a flush using old filter but cheap new light oil .
And start warming up the engine for 2/3 min. on idle without switching on ac before starting off immediately on gunning. let the turbo get proper lubrication on idle before being revved. Its a good parctise for turbo diesels anyway.
May help the cause of the turbo and also engine life.
Having a free revving engine for such a small diesel can a be such a curse for both the turbo and the engine parts. As one tends to treat it in a manner of a petrol car without a turbo. Maye lead to premature failure of the turbo and also reduced engine life span.
Its Delvac MX, I'm not sure if 1300 is thinner than MX.
Don't think its a good of changing to thinner oil in tropical temperatures at Cochin. Not really going the synthetic way as car is stock and no plans for any mods.

I agree to some extend about 2/3 mins idling and all that.
I've not come across that in the owners manual, so there in that view its not my problem or ignorance, is it ?

Even so a regularly serviced car having such a problem within 22k kms and 15months, is that normal ?

Apologies for sounding a bit argumentative, but the way you have put down the words here is kind of finger pointing saying "I'm not driving the car adhering to 100% best practices for Turbo"

Even if I'm not I don't think that will cause a turbo failure, if that is the case lot of DDiS will definitely go up in smoke, dont' you think ?

The car has been driven with care and something like this happens.
When someone then says about the "best practices" its hard not to get a bit upset.

Pardon me, you have no idea how good I treat the car.
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Old 26th October 2009, 11:46   #210
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Eddy / Jaggu,

Thanks for your inputs. Got the problem rectified under warranty. It was the case of over filling of oil.

Unfortunately today the gear bush has given up today morning and just dropped the car to another MASS.

The gear stick suddenly became loose and was unable to understand which gear is engaged. Also the reverse gear is not working. Fortunately this happened near a MASS and immediately pulled into it. The service engineer says its due to the corrosion of the bush as the battery water has spilled on to it. Has anyone experienced a similar problem?
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