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Old 9th April 2009, 14:55   #16
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@jaggu- thanks. That's the plan. Car will be seen by regional head sometime next week. I'm not in a hurry as i have my bro's car as backup.
@f55 we'll get to the bottom of this soon. Dont let mass tell you nothing's wrong.
@f50 would be nice to know how much fuel is being injected at 2500rpm or so in each gear atleast in 1st 2nd and 3rd to get a rough idea if affected cars have a fuelling problem.
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Old 9th April 2009, 18:01   #17
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@RJ555: Could you elaborate on turbo lag please, is it the same as rippergeo's? no pull even after 2000 rpm?

Regarding clutch, ask them to bleed the hydrolic circuit, it should help.

Mileage seems to be lil on the lower side, are you a very fast driver?
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Old 10th April 2009, 16:43   #18
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Myself own a Dzire VDi, the experience has been a little different.Now the car has run 7K+ kms.

Initially(till 1.5K) there was significant drag and this could be due to two reasons

-the rather poor performance below 2k

-or the much enhanced turbo kick which occurred at 2K(along with a change in engine sound) in all gears(including 5th)-which overshadowed the below 2K performance.

But after 1.5K the experience has been different and this could be due to two reasons

-the below 2K performance picking up(as the kms pile)

-or the turbo kick smoothing out at 2K as the 'kick' is all but disappeared in all gears except for 1st and 2nd(still present and happens at 2K).

My personal observation is that the 'kick' has smoothed out but the performance has become more linear-but remaining the same(as the acceleration still appears brisk-this is just subjective analysis as i dont have any objective data).

Have changed oil and filter at 1K and 5K and always ensured that the level is right.I have never seen smoke from the exhaust and probably if rippergeo has seen the same then the cause could be an overfill and a troubled turbo.

@Jaggu-yes the clutch is hydraulic.

@rippergeo-could you be kind enough to provide the Service Manual for the 1.3MFD-thanks
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Old 10th April 2009, 18:55   #19
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Ripper Stupid thought coming to my mind -- You using too good an engine oil for the poor li'l car ?
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Old 13th April 2009, 19:56   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rippergeo View Post
@f50 would be nice to know how much fuel is being injected at 2500rpm or so in each gear atleast in 1st 2nd and 3rd to get a rough idea if affected cars have a fuelling problem.
Sorry for late reply.

I visited Vitesse Service Center, today, for problem similar to your's rippergeo. No pull after 2k and keeps going like naturally aspirated car. Low end was horrible. Spent like 100 mins checking here and there and going for trials. Yet no result. Tech 2 said everything is normal.
Boost pressure was 80 kpa at idle and goes till 142 kpa. Fuel pressure was around 40 something (i dont remember the unit its measured in) Also tried another Vdi and boost was kicking in at 2k and told him this is what is missing in my car. Checked again. Found nothing .

Later asked to do an engine oil change. Car seems smooth and i can feel the pull (somewhat - may be psychological?) I just hope she remains normal now (touchwood)

I asked him what if im not happy with car? He promised to book an appointment with regional engineer.
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Old 14th April 2009, 11:28   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
Ripper Stupid thought coming to my mind -- You using too good an engine oil for the poor li'l car ?
I thought so too, everytime the car gets an oil change, the lag gets worse, but the engine sounds better.
I'm still waiting on the successful resolution of my car's troubles. MASS are trying hard, but we will need to see the regional head of service if things are to happen.
But we're having a very long stretch of holidays here in kerala(weekend+vishu+election day), and that is holding things up.

I really, really, really, really, really miss the car.
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Old 17th April 2009, 13:09   #22
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@ripper: Any update on the regional engineer checking your car? I too am interested in knowing why this delayed boost happens and what it's effects might be
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Old 17th April 2009, 14:13   #23
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The car is still with local MASS, there is now a turbo available from a crashed/total loss swift, that is going to be swapped in to confirm that it is a turbo problem. if it is, and the problem is solved, then we'll talk to regional head.
Fingers crossed, the issue should be settled by next week atleast.
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Old 17th April 2009, 16:57   #24
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Default A few Observations From My Side

Hi All, I haven't been too active on the forum ever since my initial ownership thread (primarily coz I was busy clocking the miles on my VDi). I am now at the 9200 Km mark and have had 2 services till date. The observations on the Turbo and other things is given below:

Before 1st Service:
Turbo was insane (probably because the engine was "tight" in the beginning). It used to spool up at around 1900 rpm ( I could hear the turbo whine starting) and go crazy at 2000 rpm. It was great but there was a definite roughness in the engine. Everything else was fine. The car was rattle free and a pleasure to drive.
Mileage: average 16kmpl (40% city 60% highway, all with A/C on)

After 1st Service (at 900 kms):
Turbo was still hissing away nicely and all was well with my world. The car was rattle free and driving really well. One thing that I noted was that at around the 4000 Km mark, the Oil indicator on the dashboard stayed on for about a second after a cold start. I guessed that this is because of the viscosity of the oil having changed over the 3000 Kms. In any case, there were no issues with the turbocharger throughout the 4000Kms after this service.
Milage: Best: 18.8 kmpl
Average 17 kmpl
Worst: 15.6 kmpl (Highway, Very hard driving 120kph avg. speed)
(50% city 50% highway, all with A/C on)

After 2nd Service (at 5000 Kms):
The first few days after the service, the turbo seemed to have lost it's "kick in the rear" feeling and I was quite disappointed. After a few more days of driving the turbo seemed to have miraculously 'recovered' and I was feeling the kick in my backside at around 2100 rpm. Recently (post the 8000 km mark) the Oil light starting coming on again just after cold starts and the turbo effect also seems to have reduced (though it isn't gone). Also the dreaded rattles started in the front right door (I suspect the power window assembly) and the rear left of the car (I suspect the seat belt). Will have the rattles checked in the 3rd service at 10K.

Mileage: Extremely consistent 17.7 Kmpl (50-50 City and Highway with A/C)



My take on the whole turbo thing is that it seems to be somewhat phychological (try driving another "normal" - i.e. non turbocharged car and then get back to your VDi - you'll feel much happier ).
I also feel that lots of people (including myself) will be dissatisfied with the "psychological" explanation and there could be a genuine physical issue which is causing this (i.e. plumbing issues). My last guess it that as the engine loosens up and the kilometres pile up, it seems that the power delivery in the VDi becomes more liner.

Question - as the viscosity of the engine oil changes, does that also affect boost? Has anyone tried to check if the turbo "whoosh" is better when the engine is cool than when it has reached ambient temperature?
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Old 17th April 2009, 17:01   #25
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Oops, so you are suspecting that the issue could be with Turbo? Im keeping my fingers crossed too. By the way, i had escalated the issue to the regional head and i was supposed to receive a call from them this week. I havent received anything yet so far and i will also try to follow-up from my end to see if we can arrive at a solution. Thanks Ripper.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rippergeo View Post
The car is still with local MASS, there is now a turbo available from a crashed/total loss swift, that is going to be swapped in to confirm that it is a turbo problem. if it is, and the problem is solved, then we'll talk to regional head.
Fingers crossed, the issue should be settled by next week atleast.
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Old 17th April 2009, 17:29   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBT View Post
One thing that I noted was that at around the 4000 Km mark, the Oil indicator on the dashboard stayed on for about a second after a cold start. I guessed that this is because of the viscosity of the oil having changed over the 3000 Kms.

The first few days after the service, the turbo seemed to have lost it's "kick in the rear" feeling and I was quite disappointed. After a few more days of driving the turbo seemed to have miraculously 'recovered' and I was feeling the kick in my backside at around 2100 rpm.

Recently (post the 8000 km mark) the Oil light starting coming on again just after cold starts and the turbo effect also seems to have reduced (though it isn't gone).

My take on the whole turbo thing is that it seems to be somewhat phychological (try driving another "normal" - i.e. non turbocharged car and then get back to your VDi - you'll feel much happier ).

Question - as the viscosity of the engine oil changes, does that also affect boost? Has anyone tried to check if the turbo "whoosh" is better when the engine is cool than when it has reached ambient temperature?
Engine oil light going out after a sec of cranking is normal, this is due to change in viscosity and the oil contamination. Run an engine flush at 10 or 20k interval and this will disappear for a while. But really nothing to worry.

Regarding the turbo woosh, i think you are right to an extent since most of us get used to the power and then slowly the urge for more starts. Things that can be checked is to keep a tab on air filter health, air pressure, fuel (IOC regular works for me well) and then the air pressure. I havent touched the plumbing till date. I check the health by listening to the whistle of the turbo while reving (sounds sweet at nights).

With my 195 65 14 tires i have noticed that couple of pounds less and car feels less enthusiastic as well as the mileage drops by 1 kmpl.

Once in a while stretching the engine and long runs on highway do help and seems to make a hell lot of difference to the power delivery of the car. Just another reason for a trip to me

More than viscosity i feel the grade and the quantity matters, keep the oil level at F or lil below F at cold and only in cold should you check and the car performs the best.

WRT temperature, cooler the climate better these engines perform. I feel there is a perceptible difference during winter and late night runs in Bangalore climate. But funny part is if am doing long trips after the car has run some 100 kms (even in peak summer), i get a feeling engine really performing well (esp the turbo pull).
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Old 17th April 2009, 21:00   #27
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@BBT- i get what you're saying. but in my case, the boost was proven to be only 2psi at 2000rpm and peak boost came at 4000rpm, that too a paltry 11psi.
also- you yourself have said that your boost is now coming at 2100rpm. thats how my car was too, in the beginning. initially, I thought the same way as you did, and drove on. Most swifts i've driven seem to be getting a late boost. and they get later the more they have done on the odo. In my case, the daily "race" style driving seems to have caused things to happen earlier.

@bala- no problem! we're all helping each other.

The reason for the delay is , the impracticality(from the MASS' point of view) in ordering an expensive turbo just to check if it is faulty in a particular car. in case it isnt, they are stuck. so we had to actually wait for a total loss swift diesel to turn up.
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Old 17th April 2009, 22:40   #28
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Jaggu: Totally right about stretching its legs on the highway once in a while and getting the kick back. I questioned ripper to no extent all the time we spoke on the phone that the kick seems less, its coming at 2100 rpm bla bla. But on a recent trip to goa and back with a run of around 1500 km the vicious kick was back although at 2100 rpm but the tension starts building around at 1900 and everything is back to normal. Mileage though is hovering between 17 to 18 on the highway with 120 to 140+ speeds.

One more thing i have noticed is after i bled my clutch like you asked me to, before the goa trip the clutch was perfect, now the pedal seems a little hard. Gear shifting is butter smooth though ? is this because of the hot weather in mumbai or something else ? the car has run 8000 km.

BBT: I ve noticed this one thing about getting the vicious turbo kick back. Clean the air filter every 1500 to 2000 km.Atleast i do it and there is a lot of dust accumulated even in 2000 km.The kick increases after this cleanup.Try it out once.Also one more thing i ve noticed is.If u keep spooling the turbo all the time in the city, the kick reduces a bit.After that u drive slowly for sometime and then jam the accelerator and again the vicious kick is back.
During night driving on the highway, whatever u do , how much ever u spool the turbo the kick is always vicious but during the day driving on the highways the car seems to get tired kinda feeling.
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Old 18th April 2009, 10:37   #29
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Guys! Just confirmed. Its the turbo. MASS just called. Gushing about how the car is flying after the swapped turbo. Phew! Atleast now, i have an answer. Now to find out why this happened.
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Old 18th April 2009, 12:48   #30
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@rippergeo - Congrats!! So your boost numbers were right after all I hope they replace the turbo with a brand new one under warranty.
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