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Old 4th June 2013, 15:44   #301
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Default Re: Swift DDIS Turbo issues: Report & Resolution thread

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Originally Posted by rocky080 View Post
Hi Achilless,

Could you please explain the noise a little further. like does it come in after reaching a particular rpm or is it from the start of the car? Is the noise also associated with any kind of grinding noise.

My first guess is this is not related to the turbo as you mention there is no drop in power or FE. If the whistle is associated along with some sort of grinding noise my guess would be a worn rear wheel bearing.

Also is there any change in the NVH? If so have the Exhaust system checked for any leaks and worn out rubber bushes(Worn rubber bushes can cause squeaking when in low rpm due to metal on metal rubbing of certain components).

I do not own a dezire or any MJD engined cars so cant comment on the life of it and its cost.

Precaution that can be taken are:
1) Proper idling of the engine before moving the car.
2) Reach optimum operational temperature before you start revving the car to its limit.
3) Proper idling before shutting of the engine.

Hope it helps
Thanks rocky for the prompt reply. The sound is whistling sound and it starts as the vehicle starts also intensity of sound gets abate when I lift the accelerator. It is not the grinding noise for sure. Thanks for your suggestions of improving life of Turbo. But after reading few threads in T-BHP regarding idling and revving patterns, I take utmost care which is as follows.
1. When I start the vehicle in morning i press clutch and then gives ignition.
2. I kept my car running at least 1 min after cold start.
3. I do not start AC immediately after starting car.
4. Do not revv for at least 10 mins.
5. While coming to halt before shutting engine i keep my engine in idle for 30-40 secs, sometimes around 1 min.

Please let me know any other things to be needed apart from this?


Quote:
Originally Posted by anandpadhye View Post
Can you record the sound and upload the mp3? I recently rebulit the turbo on my Tucson and since then it also whistles. I have shared the recorded whistle on my ownership thread. In any case, I think it should not come from rear but are you sure you have sensed the direction right? Is your car consuming oil? Do you frequently clean your air filter? Do you idle for at least half a minute on startup and before shutdown?

You can refert to my case here:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-t...ml#post3047188
Thanks Anand I will try to post the sound clip ASAP. I am 100% sure that the noise is not from front cause when i drive the car I can sense that the noise is coming from behind. When I was sitting in rear seats (my friend was driving the car) i can sense that the noise is coming from beneath of the seats.
My car is not consuming oil. Also I use K&N air filter which i cleaned on Sunday. I religiously follow the rules of idling on startup and before shut down after reading few useful threads on this topic. Please let me know any other precautions need to be taken.
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Old 4th June 2013, 17:14   #302
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Default Re: Swift DDIS Turbo issues: Report & Resolution thread

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Originally Posted by Achilless View Post
Thanks rocky for the prompt reply. The sound is whistling sound and it starts as the vehicle starts also intensity of sound gets abate when I lift the accelerator. It is not the grinding noise for sure. Thanks for your suggestions of improving life of Turbo. But after reading few threads in T-BHP regarding idling and revving patterns, I take utmost care which is as follows.
1. When I start the vehicle in morning i press clutch and then gives ignition.
2. I kept my car running at least 1 min after cold start.
3. I do not start AC immediately after starting car.
4. Do not revv for at least 10 mins.
5. While coming to halt before shutting engine i keep my engine in idle for 30-40 secs, sometimes around 1 min.

Please let me know any other things to be needed apart from this?
Hi Achilless,

From your response on the issue about no grinding noise and that the noise goes away as soon as you let go of the throttle i am guessing its not an issue with the Wheel bearing.

Does this whistling noise come if you rev the engine when the car is stationary? If so get the exhaust system checked. Also, get the turbo plumbing checked as i had faced a similar issue on my Xylo when the mech forgot to completely tighten the intercooler hose clip(I agree you feel its from the back of the car and got nothing to do with turbo hosing, but no harm in checking right).
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Old 27th October 2013, 12:11   #303
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Default Re: Swift DDIS Turbo issues: Report & Resolution thread

From last two days turbo in my Ertiga DDiS which has run 18K km is not working. The day before I noticed this problem, I had gone on a long trip and it was working just fine, the pull being felt with faint audible whistle as usual. Now there is absolutely no turbo whistle and no pull. The only other noticeable thing is the engine noise seems to be higher than normal - there is some rat-rat-rat-rat kind of noise that is more audible than earlier.

Having gone through this thread and few others related to turbo issues, I have already cleaned the air filter, re-filled diesel from good known place and driven the car around for a while but there is no sign of any improvement for the last two days. Checked the pipe going from air filter box to the turbo and appears ok. Not sure what else I can do before I take to MASS? Should I reset the ECU once?

I hope the turbo has not died so early (18k Km) and I always follow the practice of idling before switching off the engine. Could this be an issue with some sensor (I hope it is something smaller like that)

Last edited by mohan41 : 27th October 2013 at 12:30.
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Old 27th October 2013, 13:00   #304
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Default Re: Swift DDIS Turbo issues: Report & Resolution thread

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Originally Posted by Peter View Post
Dear Bhpians,

A friend of mine has this curious issue with his DDIS ( SX4 ) ,

There is a noticeable loss of turbo , or at least the turbo seems to be lethargic everytime he tanks up his car ( Full tank )

After the fuel indicator drops down say to 3/4 as per the fuel indicator there is a difference in performance , the Car itself feels lighter and the turbo just responds like ready for a sprint.

The above behaviour seems to continue for every tank full he has done so far ... hence he now refills only to half , maybe sometimes 3/4 the tank capacity only to avoid the lethargic approach that he experiences on a Full tank.

Please note : The Fuel station has always remained the same .

What do you make of this ? :(
Yes, I have been facing the same problem in my swift, recently

What was the final solution ?

Last edited by F150 : 27th October 2013 at 13:20.
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Old 27th October 2013, 21:02   #305
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Default Re: Swift DDIS Turbo issues: Report & Resolution thread

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Originally Posted by Peter View Post
There is a noticeable loss of turbo , or at least the turbo seems to be lethargic every time he tanks up his car ( Full tank )

After the fuel indicator drops down say to 3/4 as per the fuel indicator there is a difference in performance , the Car itself feels lighter and the turbo just responds like ready for a sprint.
This could be due to filling the fuel to the brim and which could cause an air lock or such? Try filling fuel only till the auto-lock on the fuel dispenser and see if the issue repeats.

May have some connection to fuel pump, sensors that control the flow (signals from the ECU)


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Originally Posted by F150 View Post
Yes, I have been facing the same problem in my swift, recently

What was the final solution ?
Anurag.
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Old 28th October 2013, 20:26   #306
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Default Re: Swift DDIS Turbo issues: Report & Resolution thread

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Originally Posted by F150 View Post
Yes, I have been facing the same problem in my swift, recently

What was the final solution ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
This could be due to filling the fuel to the brim and which could cause an air lock or such? Try filling fuel only till the auto-lock on the fuel dispenser and see if the issue repeats.

May have some connection to fuel pump, sensors that control the flow (signals from the ECU)

Anurag.
The situation still remains the same till date , various performance levels at various fuel levels in the tank , also the car has never been filled to the brim ever , always auto cutoff or half tank !!

This was brought to the notice of MASS sometime back , but all they do is scratch their heads

So the approach until now is fill until half tank and ride like the devil himself is after you whenever the engine and turbo come alive
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Old 28th October 2013, 22:24   #307
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Originally Posted by Peter View Post
The situation still remains the same till date, various performance levels at various fuel levels in the tank , also the car has never been filled to the brim ever , always auto cutoff or half tank
I would say check the fuel pump. The intank fuel pumps may not be working properly when fully submerged. It might be causing restrictive flow during suction.

If you have a scan tool like OBD II reader, check injector pressure with full tank, 3/4 th tank and half tank.

Hope this helps.

Anurag.
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Old 29th October 2013, 08:00   #308
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Default Re: Swift DDIS Turbo issues: Report & Resolution thread

I am very late to this thread..but have a few questions:
1.while on express highways and while am doing 130-140kmph in my Vxi always a Vdi zooms past me and i find it difficult to catch at that speeds

2.At the beginning of this thread service costs of 10k-15k are mentioned for the Vdi. Is it that costly to service or is the cost justified?will the Vxi cost the same too?(Mine is still in free service 9.5k kms)
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Old 29th October 2013, 08:23   #309
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Default Re: Swift DDIS Turbo issues: Report & Resolution thread

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Originally Posted by meisnutz View Post
I am very late to this thread..but have a few questions:
1.while on express highways and while am doing 130-140kmph in my Vxi always a Vdi zooms past me and i find it difficult to catch at that speeds

2.At the beginning of this thread service costs of 10k-15k are mentioned for the Vdi. Is it that costly to service or is the cost justified?will the Vxi cost the same too?(Mine is still in free service 9.5k kms)

1. Why would you want to drive at speeds greater than 140 in the first place?! The reason why your VXI finds it difficult to catch up could be multiple reasons
-> If the VDI is less loaded
-> VDI is already at higher speed. But you have to gain speed to catch up with him. Probably the K14 engine is out of its power band or the the border @ 140 kmph. Also since the VDI is turbo charged it will always have better pulling ability .Besides the diesel has a better power to weight ratio than the petrol.

2. No, regular servicing should not cost you more than 5000 if you don't fall prey to the tactics of the service center guys
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Old 29th October 2013, 08:31   #310
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Originally Posted by meisnutz View Post
1.while on express highways and while am doing 130-140kmph in my Vxi always a Vdi zooms past me and i find it difficult to catch at that speeds
The top speed ranges between 145 - 155 kmph so in theory a petrol would reach that point faster than a diesel. This is due the engine characteristics, petrol engine has a better top end while diesel has a low top end as the power tapers down too fast at high rpm but in a petrol the peak power developed is at 6-7K rpm which is way more than diesel that die between 4-5K.

I find it the other way round. I drive a Ritz VDi and I see petrol vehicles go past me comfortably at speeds between 120 - 130 kmph. My car feels somewhat stressed so I don't cross 110 kmph. I am surprised you feel the diesel goes faster than a petrol one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by meisnutz View Post
2.At the beginning of this thread service costs of 10k-15k are mentioned for the Vdi. Is it that costly to service or is the cost justified?will the Vxi cost the same too?(Mine is still in free service 9.5k kms)
Absolutely wrong. I have done 14 services till date (1L kms) and not got a bill above 8K. If the car is fine and regular servicing is to be done the bill would be between 3-5K depending on the engine oil added. It depends on the condition of the car and accordingly the bill would come.

Hope I have answered your doubts.

Anurag.
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Old 29th October 2013, 08:43   #311
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Default Re: Swift DDIS Turbo issues: Report & Resolution thread

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Originally Posted by sagarpadaki View Post
1. Why would you want to drive at speeds greater than 140 in the first place?! The reason why your VXI finds it difficult to catch up could be multiple reasons
-> If the VDI is less loaded
-> VDI is already at higher speed. But you have to gain speed to catch up with him. Probably the K14 engine is out of its power band or the the border @ 140 kmph. Also since the VDI is turbo charged it will always have better pulling ability .Besides the diesel has a better power to weight ratio than the petrol.

2. No, regular servicing should not cost you more than 5000 if you don't fall prey to the tactics of the service center guys
It is not that I wanted to drive at that speeds but it was a express highway and you know when it is free there is always an urge to max your car and i was doing just the same when a vdi zoomed past.

Also what is power to weight ratio?The swift Vxi is about 960kg and has 85 bhp while swift Vdi is about 1060kg and has 75 bhp. This made me more intiguied about this fact. From my math Swift Vxi has more power to weight ratio may be it is wrong.

And about load it had 5 people on board and mine had only four.The only figure that makes me look bad is the torque. Vdi has 190 torques which is 80 more than mine.Does that make the difference?
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Old 29th October 2013, 08:54   #312
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Originally Posted by meisnutz View Post

It is not that I wanted to drive at that speeds but it was a express highway and you know when it is free there is always an urge to max your car and i was doing just the same when a vdi zoomed past.

Also what is power to weight ratio?The swift Vxi is about 960kg and has 85 bhp while swift Vdi is about 1060kg and has 75 bhp. This made me more intiguied about this fact. From my math Swift Vxi has more power to weight ratio may be it is wrong.

And about load it had 5 people on board and mine had only four.The only figure that makes me look bad is the torque. Vdi has 190 torques which is 80 more than mine.Does that make the difference?
The main reason would be the torque/grunt - as a result of the higher torque in the diesel swift, the gear ratios of the diesel are higher. The swift diesel has overdrive for both 4th and 5th gear as the engine has much greater torque than the petrol. As a result of this, the roll on acceleration of the diesel is fantastic from the 3rd gear onwards (helped in great measure by the turbo).

When getting off from a standing start, the petrol would perform much better than diesel but once it starts rolling, the diesel gains a significant edge in gearing due to the fact that the speed increases exponentially for each increase in the engine RPM and the fact that the turbo kicks in in beyond 2000 RPM.

That being said, beyond 140 kmph, both petrol and diesel would start tapering off their power band and catching up with someone going faster will be difficult and dangerous irrespective of the fuel type.
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Old 29th October 2013, 08:55   #313
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Default Re: Swift DDIS Turbo issues: Report & Resolution thread

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Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
The top speed ranges between 145 - 155 kmph so in theory a petrol would reach that point faster than a diesel. This is due the engine characteristics, petrol engine has a better top end while diesel has a low top end as the power tapers down too fast at high rpm but in a petrol the peak power developed is at 6-7K rpm which is way more than diesel that die between 4-5K.

I find it the other way round. I drive a Ritz VDi and I see petrol vehicles go past me comfortably at speeds between 120 - 130 kmph. My car feels somewhat stressed so I don't cross 110 kmph. I am surprised you feel the diesel goes faster than a petrol one.
Absolutely wrong. I have done 14 services till date (1L kms) and not got a bill above 8K. If the car is fine and regular servicing is to be done the bill would be between 3-5K depending on the engine oil added. It depends on the condition of the car and accordingly the bill would come.


Anurag.
Hi anurag,

I think that is it then the RPM iam maintaining is about 4k when it zooms past I hvnt taken my car past 5k rpm but once reached 160kmph but did not check the rpm. I knew in paper Vxi is the bigger kid at top end and lacks in low end than Vdi.The petrol is not strained even at 140 kmph just a small hum more than at 80-90. May be noise reduction is better iam not sure. Vxi does 90 kmph in 5th gear a notch below 3000RPM what about Vdi?
About servicing i still have to find out. Also one problem when iam at an incline and when i release my brake gently there is a noise like some thin is stretchin.

Last edited by meisnutz : 29th October 2013 at 08:59.
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Old 29th October 2013, 09:12   #314
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Originally Posted by meisnutz View Post
I think that is it then the RPM iam maintaining is about 4k when it zooms past I hvnt taken my car past 5k rpm but once reached 160kmph but did not check the rpm. Vxi does 90 kmph in 5th gear a notch below 3000RPM what about Vdi?
80 kmph = 1900 rpm
100 kmph = 2300 rpm
120 kmph = 2600 rpm
140 kmph = 3200 rpm
175 kmph = 4700 rpm.

Data obtained from the ECU via an IBD II reader.

The advantage is the Torque the engine produces and at a lower rpm. The peak torque i.e. 190 Nm comes live at 1800 and goes upto 3000 RPM. The diesel is turbocharged (TC) but the petrol is NA. The TC helps matter during acceleration and roll-on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by meisnutz View Post
About servicing i still have to find out. Also one problem when iam at an incline and when i release my brake gently there is a noise like some thin is stretchin.
I guess the brake discs are rubbing to the pads or are worn out.

Anurag.
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Old 29th October 2013, 12:17   #315
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Default Re: Swift DDIS Turbo issues: Report & Resolution thread

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Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
I would say check the fuel pump. The intank fuel pumps may not be working properly when fully submerged. It might be causing restrictive flow during suction.

If you have a scan tool like OBD II reader, check injector pressure with full tank, 3/4 th tank and half tank.

Hope this helps.

Anurag.
Thanks Anurag , do you mean the OBD scan diagnostioc units which can be found on ebay nowadays ? would be glad to get this sorted considering no one has answers to this for the past 2 and a 1/2 years .

Also , just curious ... in case we do see different readings in regards to injector pressure at the 3 different levels of fuel in the tank , what would it tell us ?

Cheers
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