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Old 18th April 2009, 13:17   #31
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Great. Please post your inferences and also the statistics if possible (boost pressure, fuel injection). Im kind of confused as though the issue reported by both of us is extremely similar in nature, the boost pressure readings from tech2 were different. In your case, it was evident that there was no turbo boost happening, whereas in my case numbers seem quite normal. Appreciate your assistance Ripper. Thanks


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Originally Posted by rippergeo View Post
Guys! Just confirmed. Its the turbo. MASS just called. Gushing about how the car is flying after the swapped turbo. Phew! Atleast now, i have an answer. Now to find out why this happened.
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Old 18th April 2009, 22:23   #32
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Originally Posted by bala80 View Post
Great. Please post your inferences and also the statistics if possible (boost pressure, fuel injection).
yes, @Ripper: please post this. It would be useful for many of us who may be facing a similar issue but attribute it to the engine freeing up or the boost becoming linear!
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Old 18th April 2009, 22:43   #33
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Originally Posted by bala80 View Post
Great. Please post your inferences and also the statistics if possible (boost pressure, fuel injection). Im kind of confused as though the issue reported by both of us is extremely similar in nature, the boost pressure readings from tech2 were different. In your case, it was evident that there was no turbo boost happening, whereas in my case numbers seem quite normal. Appreciate your assistance Ripper. Thanks
I doubt if tech 2 can provide accurate readings of boost pressure. I have no idea where tech2 gets the readings for the boost from. I shall try and find out.
In my case, the tech2 showed normal boost. I didnt believe it, so found an aftermarket boost gauge, hooked it up and got the truth. before you rush off to MASS saying their tech 2 is useless, we need more info on this question.
"where is the tech 2 getting info on boost pressure"

The MASS I had initially gone to told me my turbo was fine after the tech 2 reading, visual inspection and also let me feel the the pressure of the air coming out of the turbo against my hand(of course, that is no way of measuring boost pressure)

hopefully will have more info by middle of next week.
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Old 20th April 2009, 17:26   #34
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I met with the head of customer care and technical division in MSM chennai today and following is the summary of happenings.

I met with a senior technical person who sounded quite knoweledgable in understanding my problem, We took the vehicle through an elaborate test drive, ripping it in every gear. The technician connected an system very similar to tech 2, but said this is SDD (Suzuki Diagnostic Device) and he said this is a little advanced to tech 2. When the vehicle is stationary, the boost pressure reads 99 kpa (explanation - barometric pressure of air, 100 kpa), and as the throttle input increases the boost pressure readings also changes. The boost pressure was at 101-103 Kpa at around 2000 RPM and went upto 120 kpa at 3000 RPM. Now we took the vehicle for a drive and the boost pressure reading changed with speed/load etc. The boost pressure was in the range of 120 -125 kpa @2000 RPM. We accelerated the vehicle till the red line and the readings went as high as around 210 kpa @4000 RPM. As per this gentlemen, the vehicle is perfectly fine and there are absolutely no problems. They go by their diagnostic tool data and according to them there is no problems. Also, there was no problem noticed with the other parameters.

Ripper - My biggest problem now is to make them acknowedge that there is a problem, forget about a resolution. I have wasted enough time already making them understand and im not too optimistic that they would in any case (for them tech2 is the bible). The next level of escalation is a team of engineers from maruti who would be visiting the chennai workshop next week for any issues. Im not too sure if i can make any headway in this, but atleast if you manage to find out the source of reading for tech 2 and if im able to validate this with another tool, i can try taking it up once again with may be a different MASS in chennai. I hope im not asking too much from you here. Thanks for all your assistance.


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Originally Posted by rippergeo View Post
I doubt if tech 2 can provide accurate readings of boost pressure. I have no idea where tech2 gets the readings for the boost from. I shall try and find out.
In my case, the tech2 showed normal boost. I didnt believe it, so found an aftermarket boost gauge, hooked it up and got the truth. before you rush off to MASS saying their tech 2 is useless, we need more info on this question.
"where is the tech 2 getting info on boost pressure"

The MASS I had initially gone to told me my turbo was fine after the tech 2 reading, visual inspection and also let me feel the the pressure of the air coming out of the turbo against my hand(of course, that is no way of measuring boost pressure)

hopefully will have more info by middle of next week.
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Old 20th April 2009, 18:06   #35
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Rippergeo could you please post the findings as to what was wrong with your turbo .

I really like to get that boost/woosh when it crosses the 2k RPM even if it means replacing the turbo .

Any idea on the cost of a new turbo ?
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Old 20th April 2009, 18:20   #36
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The figures should been compared to another car, that would make it easier for all of you all to decide whether something is wrong or not. What is wrong, should be the next step.
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Old 20th April 2009, 20:56   #37
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Ripper - My biggest problem now is to make them acknowedge that there is a problem, forget about a resolution.
I know, I faced the same answer for a year. the tech 2 says its fine, so there's nothing wrong.
210kpa should be made at 2000rpm, not 4000rpm, peak torque comes with peak boost. if you look at the torque curve of the DDIS, all the torque comes in at 2000 and drops away rapidly and is almost gone by 4k rpm. boost being produced at 4k rpm is useless.
and at 2k rpm you are making slightly more than normal atmospheric pressure. to me..that sounds like a defective turbo, it could be other things too, but I'm betting on the turbo.

Those people seem to have the diagnosis staring at them in the face, but still refuse to "see" it. I dont think they are doing it on purpose, its just sheer ignorance.

Also, what you reported makes things clearer to me now. Tech 2 shows absolute pressure. i.e atmospheric pressure+ whatever boost is being produced.
I assumed it as pure boost pressure(without adding atmospheric pressure), hence tech 2 numbers looked normal to me. In actual fact, the tech 2 was telling us that the boost was non existent at 2k rpm, and me, like an idiot, did not apply my brains.
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Rippergeo could you please post the findings as to what was wrong with your turbo .

I really like to get that boost/woosh when it crosses the 2k RPM even if it means replacing the turbo .

Any idea on the cost of a new turbo ?
I will post as soon as I find out. The MASS I have given the car to is not very high tech, but they try very hard to get things done. Now that they have confirmed it is the turbo, the car has to be brought back to cochin(supposed to happen today, but didnt) for a more detailed diagnosis than defective turbo.

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The figures should been compared to another car, that would make it easier for all of you all to decide whether something is wrong or not. What is wrong, should be the next step.
@bala80
This is the easiest way to convince them that something is wrong, though even that didnt work for me for the whole of last year as, my car was still giving a very prominent whoosh(still less than brand new) later down the rev range, and... it was still faster than most cars of comparable age and odo readings. Finally, after the turbo gave up completely, there was no dispute.
i'm glad it happened before the warranty ran out.
ask them to drive your car back to back with a brand new one.

I'm having an awfully hectic week, but will try my best to get some answers.
I really cant afford to kick up a fuss with the MASS because
1. they are very obliging
2. the GM of that MASS is a close friend
3. I want them to support my warranty claim.
so please give me some time, I will put up all the info I get, on this thread.
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Old 20th April 2009, 22:08   #38
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ripper, hope you get a new turbo under warranty. Get your whoosh back, soon
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Old 25th April 2009, 17:14   #39
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Still waiting for the warranty approval.
Got the car back home to keep it running instead of letting it lie in the MASS yard unused. I was still faster than the surrounding traffic in normally aspirated mode

Fingers crossed for new turbo under warranty. if not- the new one will cost Rs15,000/-. Which to me sounds dirt cheap.
Have some tech 2 readings written down. will put them up tomorrow.
Bill so far- Rs Zero. lets hope it stays that way.
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Old 25th April 2009, 17:33   #40
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It should be covered under warranty. Its not a wear and tear part, is it ?

What else could keep it out of warranty cover ?
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Old 25th April 2009, 18:14   #41
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It will be covered under warranty if the assessor make certain that Turbo didn't fail due to faulty use. You can spoil a turbo if you start an engine and zoom off within 30 sec and use the turbo right away or turn off an engine just after a heavy turbo use (Within 2 min of heavy turbo use).
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Old 25th April 2009, 18:58   #42
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It will be covered under warranty if the assessor make certain that Turbo didn't fail due to faulty use. You can spoil a turbo if you start an engine and zoom off within 30 sec and use the turbo right away or turn off an engine just after a heavy turbo use (Within 2 min of heavy turbo use).
thanks for this info dieselfan! i dint know all this.
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Old 26th April 2009, 13:14   #43
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Hi,

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Originally Posted by DieselFan View Post
You can spoil a turbo if you start an engine and zoom off within 30 sec and use the turbo right away or turn off an engine just after a heavy turbo use (Within 2 min of heavy turbo use).
My Safari (between 1999 and 2005) and Marina TDi (2005 to present) has survived in spite of following the mandatory idle before start and before stop for 76000kms and 55000 kms.
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Old 27th April 2009, 09:51   #44
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Hi,



My Safari (between 1999 and 2005) and Marina TDi (2005 to present) has survived in spite of following the mandatory idle before start and before stop for 76000kms and 55000 kms.
It is sad to hear that trrk. Turbo is a new concept in Indian Auto industry and they speeds they run is close to 100000 rpm. high speed needs precision manufacturing and good QC. Both are a suspect with Tatas or their vendors.
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Old 27th April 2009, 10:00   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselFan View Post
It will be covered under warranty if the assessor make certain that Turbo didn't fail due to faulty use. You can spoil a turbo if you start an engine and zoom off within 30 sec and use the turbo right away or turn off an engine just after a heavy turbo use (Within 2 min of heavy turbo use).
But does maruti mention that such a precaution be taken with the engine? I dont think so. I havent seen it in the Swift DDiS manual, nor on the car , nor was the info conveyed while taking delivery, nor were the mechs aware of such a procedure - at least that was what a friend with two Swift D's told me when I asked him about the wait period for turbo spin up and down.

My indica turbo has a big yellow warning label which says the same. Strange maruti didnt add aything similar.And you cant fault a person for not doing something he was never asked to do in the first place.
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