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Old 6th May 2009, 23:21   #61
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Originally Posted by humyum View Post
Today for the first time i revved the car till 4000 rpm and after 3200 rpm the climb was slow and at 4000 rpm it did not even feel like it would climb anything more than this. The engine was strained.
How do u guys manage 4500 rpms is a question i would like to ask ?
This is normal and i rarely push my stock car to 4k revs, only for tricky situations. And yes out there its dud.
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Old 7th May 2009, 11:11   #62
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My Dzire VDi has done 6500 Kms and I too feel that the Turbo is lagging. I have to really revv hard for it to kick in. Dont know whether its me asking for more or the turbo.

Humyum, noticed that you are from mumbai, can we meet sometime so that we can do a small TD of each others car. I want a neutral person who has driven/owned a VDi to drive my car to give his opinion on my turbo before I take it to MASS.
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Old 7th May 2009, 12:42   #63
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Originally Posted by f1fan View Post
My Dzire VDi has done 6500 Kms and I too feel that the Turbo is lagging. I have to really revv hard for it to kick in. Dont know whether its me asking for more or the turbo.

Humyum, noticed that you are from mumbai, can we meet sometime so that we can do a small TD of each others car. I want a neutral person who has driven/owned a VDi to drive my car to give his opinion on my turbo before I take it to MASS.
Sure, Have Pmed you my number. Give me a call and we can decide when to meet.
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Old 7th May 2009, 14:47   #64
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Originally Posted by bala80 View Post
At idle and stationary, with A/c around 900 RPM, tech2 was showing 100 kpa (atmospheric pressure in kilo pascal) and as the revs build up, boost pressure started increasing beginning from 2000 RPM. It was 103-104 kpa at 2000 RPM building upto 120 Kpa at 3000 RPM. When the vehicle is in motion, depending on the speed and load, the boost pressure values kept changing and the last i checked in my vehicle it was around 200 kpa at 2000 RPM. im not able to recollect the gear the vehicle was in, and as per MASS, this is pretty much the same number tech2 will show for the other vehicles irrespective of its mileage on the ODO.
@Bala- Your numbers seem alright.
if the turbo is actually making around 200-210kpa at 2k rpm in 3rd 4th and 5th ,according to the Tech2, then maruti will be justified in saying that the turbo is working fine.

I checked with MASS about where the Tech2 gets its readings from. There are sensors in the intake manifold. and problems with the sensors will show up as errors on the Tech2.

The surge will "feel" less if it starts spooling up earlier.
Does your car feel significantly slower than a new one, when driven back to back?

In one way I was lucky that the turbo gave up before my warranty expired.

Note- ambient temperatures can also cause minor differences in total amount(Mass) of air taken in. Boost pressure per se will not vary a lot.
i.e hot weather will cause a drop in performnce because, the air pushed in by the turbo, thought at proper pressure, will be less dense, therefore carry less O2 for combustion.



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Originally Posted by nevertouchme View Post
Folks- did any of you check with other Quadrajet/MJD owners regarding this? Do they experience the same issue? Also you could compare what grade of Oil is recommended by Tata & FIAT.

Have a friend who drives an MJD. Will check with him and update this thread tomorrow.
Not heard of any issues with the MJD or quadrajet so far. but they have a very linear power delivery curve, and any gradual loss of performance will be difficult to catch, unlike the DDiS which has a world famous kick coming in at 2k rpm so if there is a problem, its very easy to co relate it with the tacho readings.

Can some one do us a favour and ask about the prices of the quadrajet and the MJD turbos? The DDiS turbo costs 15,000 and trying to find which company supplies it has drawn a blank.

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Originally Posted by humyum View Post
Fingers Crossed, My swift is 9000 km up and the turbo kick is as vicious as it was before in 1st,2nd and 3rd gear but starts at a shade above 2100 rpm and below 2200 rpm. In between.
It can be felt in 4th as well as 5th gear and in these gears the turbo kick starts at 1900 rpm and goes all the way.
Today for the first time i revved the car till 4000 rpm and after 3200 rpm the climb was slow and at 4000 rpm it did not even feel like it would climb anything more than this. The engine was strained.
How do u guys manage 4500 rpms is a question i would like to ask ?

its kind of pointless revving the stock engine above 4k rpm, unless its a life and death overtaking situation where you cant afford to waste time upshifting. peak performance is between 2k and 3.5k for stock.

engine revs better as the odo progresses. unfortunately, it also revs better as the turbo deteriorates

@ All
I'm not a qualified techie/mechanic, just a DDiS user like you. do take my posts with a truckload of salt. Most of what i have found is by some pretty substandard deduction and untrained observation. if there is some one who knows better, please correct me, so that the whole community benefits.

@jaggu
the oil if overfilled can damage the turbo seals.
and I agree about the wrong grade oil.
Now, how do we prove it?

Last edited by rippergeo : 7th May 2009 at 14:51.
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Old 7th May 2009, 14:52   #65
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How do they check the boost pressure? Do they get the reading from some kind of sensor in the car? In that case the sensor might be at fault..
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Old 7th May 2009, 14:57   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rippergeo View Post
I checked with MASS about where the Tech2 gets its readings from. There are sensors in the intake manifold. and problems with the sensors will show up as errors on the Tech2.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solly View Post
How do they check the boost pressure? Do they get the reading from some kind of sensor in the car? In that case the sensor might be at fault..
Its in my post above. Its possible that the sensors are malfunctioning, but would be highly unlikely. also, if the ECU was detecting normal boost and normal MAF from faulty sensors without throwing up a Check Eengine Light(highly unlikey), when there is actually no flow, methinks, the car would smoke like hell.

Last edited by rippergeo : 7th May 2009 at 15:00.
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Old 7th May 2009, 15:17   #67
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OMG why dint i see this thread before and ripper Yor turbo will be on the way soon.Guys above all if you have a friendly guy at the A.S.S you can also try replacing the test drive car turbo in your car and do a test drive run too to be sure if the turbo is at fault.One more startling find ,i am not sure if this is true-swift turbo is costing arround 15k.I have asked for a confirmation,let you guys know as soon as it comes.In that case i wouldnt mind changing the turbos every 30000 kms ,50 paise per km cost unlike the hyundai turbos where its close to 60k.
ram
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Old 7th May 2009, 19:33   #68
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I read in one of the earlier posts from Jaggu too, that cooler the ambient temperature, better the performance of turbo. May be, just may be, this could also be a reason why the surge feels a lot lesser compared to what it was before. I live in chennai, and the weather at this time of the year is extremely hot.

Ripper - My car definitely doesnt feel slower, however i havent validated this by driving another car back to back. I will do so soon, and will update this thread. Thanks for your inputs here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rippergeo View Post
Note- ambient temperatures can also cause minor differences in total amount(Mass) of air taken in. Boost pressure per se will not vary a lot.
i.e hot weather will cause a drop in performnce because, the air pushed in by the turbo, thought at proper pressure, will be less dense, therefore carry less O2 for combustion.
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Old 7th May 2009, 20:48   #69
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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Yes i actually was thinking in these terms. Is this issue limited to Maruti DDIS or is it universal for Multijet engines.
Jaggu- As mentioned before, I checked with my friend who owns an MJD. His car currently has done 18,500 kms. He mentioned that the turbo kick is better than the initial days.

He said the oil that's used is Mobil1 and he did not have any details more than that. Requested him to check his manual/bills for the grade of the oil used. I will update this thread again tomorrow.
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Old 7th May 2009, 21:03   #70
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Originally Posted by nevertouchme View Post
He said the oil that's used is Mobil1 and he did not have any details more than that. Requested him to check his manual/bills for the grade of the oil used. I will update this thread again tomorrow.
It will be mobil but dont think its Mobil 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by bala80 View Post
I read in one of the earlier posts from Jaggu too, that cooler the ambient temperature, better the performance of turbo. May be, just may be, this could also be a reason why the surge feels a lot lesser compared to what it was before. I live in chennai, and the weather at this time of the year is extremely hot.
From the butt dyno it will feel lethargic when hot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rippergeo View Post
@jaggu
the oil if overfilled can damage the turbo seals.
and I agree about the wrong grade oil.
Now, how do we prove it?
am stuck here, this is my primary and only car right now and cant offer an experiment with it Only hope maruti would be watching and resolving it for others. From your side try to find out what really failed in the turbo when you get the replacement. Oil seal, bearings?

Today after the oil change back to Mobil Delvac, i DEFINITELY feel a difference in the cars performance. It has improved, term i would use is CRISP, "kinda" like crisper pitter patter which is easy to figure out.

I did some checks also in all gears, car is working as it should from just above 2000 rpms, this was done in the evening 730 ish so ambient temp here in BLR is cool. Car has run under 10 kms after oil change.
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Old 7th May 2009, 21:23   #71
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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
From your side try to find out what really failed in the turbo when you get the replacement. Oil seal, bearings?
that will have to wait till the old turbo is sent back, and even then, its unlikely that we will get info about that particular turbo from maruti HQ. Any suggestions on how that can be done without relying on maruti?
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Old 7th May 2009, 22:19   #72
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I have experienced the temperature effect as well. It definitely is present. On a hot day, the kick is slightly less vicious than the one you get on a cool night.

Also, the reasons of the lesser perceived kick could be totally psychological! (Probably doesn't apply to you, ripper)

My take: Get out your stopwatches and measure the time taken for 1.5k to 4k in 3rd. Then we can all compare what the relative performance is.

Please note the weather conditions as well, and try a run at noon, and one in the night to see if there's any difference.

Needless to say, the engine needs to be fully warmed up.

This way, quite a few of the environmental and driver variables are thrown out of the window. The times should match up in case the turbo is doing its job just fine.

Who's in?
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Old 7th May 2009, 22:22   #73
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A competent person with turbo knowledge can physically inspect and ascertain to a certain extend the nature of the damage, if its seals obviously oil leak signs would be evident. Bearing seizure will make the blade assembly tight.

Side by side comparison with new turbo unit before install is also a good idea.

d3mon: sounds like an idea, but roll on speed, esp to start the 1.5 rpm also has to be set, to get some consistency in.

Last edited by Jaggu : 7th May 2009 at 22:26.
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Old 7th May 2009, 22:40   #74
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Today F1fan and me met up at reclamation to check our respective cars and check out our turbos spooling. Since reclamation is an empty strech we could strech our cars and judge how the feel is different as he was complaining of the turbo being less vicious.

His is a Dzire Vdi Run around 6500 km and mine is a Swift Vdi Run 9000 km.Both of us are runing on Michelin Xm1+

First went in his car for a test drive with me driving and at 2100 kick was less vicious as compared to my car. But his engine felt smoother than mine. Also when i started his car the car jumpled a little less during the starting(starter) phase as compared to mine.Also his gear shifting was smother as compared to mine.His steering too seemed too smooth as compared to mine.Mine is a little harder than his.

Then we went for a test drive in my car with him driving and he was of the same opinion that the kick was much more vicious in my car as compared to his, but clutch was a tad bit harder in my car than his.Also he felt the steering was a bit hard in my car as compared to his.

Last edited by humyum : 7th May 2009 at 22:43.
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Old 7th May 2009, 22:50   #75
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@Jaggu Good point. Let's set the starting speed at 25? Then it's just pedal to the metal all the way!

And we need stock tyre sizes, otherwise the timings will be off!
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