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Old 15th May 2009, 10:22   #121
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I have a feeling that the Swift turbo may be detuned / boost reduced over the service. This could be to lengthen its life or that it's proved too delicate for our kind of use. Can you guys do a 0 100 of a regular Swift versus a detuned one and post up the results?
How do they do that? there is no provision to do any adjustment, hardware as well as software, as far as i know.

ripper any inputs?
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Old 15th May 2009, 13:06   #122
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How do they do that? there is no provision to do any adjustment, hardware as well as software, as far as i know.

ripper any inputs?
Thats absolutely true. The SA told me that there is no setting that they can change. Everything is factory tuned in this car.

Yesterday had gone to a maruti showroom to take a test drive of DDIS. The Demo vehicle had done almost 28000Km(It was the first model DDIS). The Boost was much more significant then my car is what I felt. Little less then my first DDIS though. There is one another thing that I feel is, my first DDIS was the first model of DDIS with no Digital Clock etc, could maruti have detuned the new model apart from the cosmetic changes? Because most of the complaints on this thread are for this new model DDIS I guess.

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Old 15th May 2009, 13:15   #123
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
I have a feeling that the Swift turbo may be detuned / boost reduced over the service. This could be to lengthen its life or that it's proved too delicate for our kind of use. Can you guys do a 0 100 of a regular Swift versus a detuned one and post up the results?
Even I got this feeling when my car was given to service and it felt lot slower than when it went in. Not sure, but I assumed maybe they tried a new map or something like that as an improvement feature on all cars. Or like you mentioned it could be turning down of the boost manually as well.
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Old 15th May 2009, 13:59   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
I have a feeling that the Swift turbo may be detuned / boost reduced over the service. This could be to lengthen its life or that it's proved too delicate for our kind of use. Can you guys do a 0 100 of a regular Swift versus a detuned one and post up the results?
The peak boost developed by the particular stock turbo cant be reduced. The turbo in the swift and its wastegate are all purely mechanical.

@mclaren- that is what most of us have noted, the car gets slower with each service.

I have not heard of maruti having detuned maps for the swift.
I've practically been living at MASS up until the recent past, I would have heard something.

This is a nice link
Engine-Turbo1
I dont know how much of it can be applied to the diesel swift, but overfilling oil seems to cause trouble in other TCed cars too.
There is a contrary opinion saying that too much oil will just cause poor performance and smoke and not turbo damage.
but to according to my experience, once the oil seal starts leaking, the problem will get progressively worse and finally cause the turbo to fail completely.

Maruti just needs to start putting better seals in their turbos and also start cracking down on overfilling of oil. otherwise, this is going to get out of hand. The number of swift Ds on the road is huge, add the ritz D to those numbers, and maruti will take a beating if everyone starts claiming new turbos on warranty.
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Old 15th May 2009, 14:48   #125
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@mclaren: First thing check oil level, then see if its servo, drain it and put Delvac and you will know the difference immediately. I dont think that ECU can be tweaked or toned down with Map's!

@ripper: Oil over fill is definitely an issue, with many TC'ed engines and as far as i know, its lil more complicated than just putting a better oil seal.

Good point added by tush though, is there a difference between new and old cars? I have one of the first cars to roll out i guess.

Last edited by Jaggu : 15th May 2009 at 16:28.
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Old 15th May 2009, 18:32   #126
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How about a 0 - 100 time, guys? Then we can confirm that the turbo is running a lower boost? I'll have someone from Maruti look into this matter and reply.
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Old 15th May 2009, 21:07   #127
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I dont think that ECU can be tweaked or toned down with Map's!
actually, the ecu can be tweaked, thats what the remaps are for. just that maruti is not doing it.
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How about a 0 - 100 time, guys? Then we can confirm that the turbo is running a lower boost? I'll have someone from Maruti look into this matter and reply.
I would have if I had a turbo that behaves like stock
0-100 when my car was new- 13.8 secs. purchased 2007 oct
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Old 15th May 2009, 21:12   #128
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@GTO: 0-100 time will depend hugely on the driver, the roads and the launch. Better way would be to do RPM based timing in 3rd gear, like ripper does.
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Old 15th May 2009, 21:17   #129
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How about a 0 - 100 time, guys? Then we can confirm that the turbo is running a lower boost? I'll have someone from Maruti look into this matter and reply.
Different places, different road conditions, different setups, different people launch differently. It would be almost impossible to get an accurate read out without a reliable device. A ordinary stop watch will never give you the proper result.

However, I remember RdKarthik putting up the Vbox picture of the swift in stock and P2 modes I guess. Maybe we could use that as a base?

@ Jaggu : Manufacturers can tweak around with the maps. Don't see a reason why they would not implement a new map if the R&D team found the results to be more promising.
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Old 15th May 2009, 21:24   #130
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Not sure how or why I missed this thread. I have to say my car has more or less behaved itself with fairly consistent boost over the last 32,000 kms. However, there have been cases (usually within 2-4 days of a service) where boost would just die or flatten out at 2800 rpm. take your foot of the pedal and voila, we're back in business. Now this could have well been a case of over-filling and thankfully, the last 3 oil changes have not resulted in this behaviour.

Having said that, the car has definitely slowed over the last 10,000 kms. That slowing down translates to stepping on the pedal some more and consequently reduced mileage (though I couldn't care less about that). Everytime I have checked dip stick, it seems to be over the recommended level and every time I have brought this to the attention of the service advisor he has assured me its not something to worry about.

@ripper, I will keep a close watch on performance over the next 5000-8000 kms and let's see what happens.

@jaggu, have been running Servo for over 7000 kms now and have only noticed a slightly noisier and harsher engine (about 15%). Will try the switch to delvac and post results. Thanks for the address and phone numbers.

Cheers all!
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Old 15th May 2009, 21:25   #131
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Karthik, I think the slowing down is because of the AD07's .
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Old 15th May 2009, 21:36   #132
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Karthik, I think the slowing down is because of the AD07's .
Counted for my friend, fully counted for! I'm thinking it's time to move back to those JK Vectra's that offer such little grip but such thrills. What say?
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Old 15th May 2009, 21:50   #133
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Counted for my friend, fully counted for! I'm thinking it's time to move back to those JK Vectra's that offer such little grip but such thrills. What say?
You can gift me the AD07's. Guess what I have completely bald tires in all sizes. Maybe you could use them to get more such thrills .

On a more serious note, there has to be a solution to this problem. The engine as it is is useless past 130kmph. With this weird detuning happening, its all the more boring to drive on the GQ's.
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Old 15th May 2009, 22:01   #134
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I dont think all these cases of slow swifts are due to turbo failing.
I've been told that the following issues can also cause delayed boost/insufficient boost.

clogged air filter
clogged intercooler
clogged EGR system(dont know how)
clogged cat con
faulty wastegate
boost leak

sometimes its a combination.
of these, only the EGR cleaning is difficult because it is very inaccesible, and even that shows up on the tech 2 if it is faulty.
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Old 15th May 2009, 22:33   #135
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hey ripper did you get your mbbs or did u do a research on turbos for your doctorship,lolz.this guy is rocking.i had a few discussion with some MSIL service guys and i found that earlier the turbo used to cost 45k and now its 15k.Nice that the rates came down isnt it.I would have replaced it every 30k kms @50paise per km cost.
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