Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Technical Stuff


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11th May 2009, 16:07   #1
Senior - BHPian
 
hellstar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,071
Thanked: 17 Times
Default Oil from Intake Tube of Intercooler : Verna CRDi

This thread owes its existence to the below post from the Swift DDSI Turbo issue discussion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jomz View Post

Blocked airfilter -> vaccum in intake manifold -> sucks oil from the turbo bearings through the seals ->Seals go busted-> turbo clearances affected -> low boost.

you can see oil on the intake air pipes's to the intercooler, and in the intercooler.

I've seen this it a couple of heavy duty diesel engines.
While going for my Clutch replacement , i was with the mechanic as he dismantled components on the left side of the engine bay to get to the verna's gear box.

Picture of the intercooler intake pipe
Name:  intercoolerintakepipe.JPG
Views: 7559
Size:  64.1 KB<br /> <br />
he also removed the intake pipe to the intercooler and as soo as he took off the pipe i notice that there was quite some amount of oil in the air intake pipe. Maybe about 5-100 ml which was very dark and dripped onto the mechanics overalls.<br /> <img src=
hellstar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th May 2009, 16:38   #2
BHPian
 
adityamunshi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Baroda
Posts: 771
Thanked: 6 Times
Default

I had a few drops of oil in the intake of my Indica DLS 2004 (80K) asked my mechanic about it and he said something about wear and tear on the oil seals. According to him it didn't need urgent attention.
adityamunshi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th May 2009, 16:51   #3
BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Chennai
Posts: 54
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

Yes. It is normal to have some amount oil in the intake pipe and intercooler. Oil vapors coming from PCV valve (The Positive Crankcase Ventilation) is connected with intake pipe. So it will accumulate in the intake pipe and inter cooler. Even if you clean, it will accumulate again. It is recommended to clean intercooler every 50000 KMs.
Ramesh75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th May 2009, 16:59   #4
Team-BHP Support
 
Jaggu's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 17,752
Thanked: 7,471 Times
Default

But so much of oil to make it drip, that sounds weird? How is the oil consumption in your car?
Jaggu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th May 2009, 17:09   #5
BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Chennai
Posts: 54
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

I have recently cleaned my intercooler in Skoda Octavia and found the same. Oil deposit depends on the mileage of the engine. Older engines will exhaust more oil vapors due to wear and tear in piston rings.
Ramesh75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th May 2009, 18:45   #6
BHPian
 
Jomz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Detroit, MI,USA
Posts: 810
Thanked: 289 Times
Default

I'd say this is a bit high. I think it must be the turbo seals only- since the crankcase ventilation needs to be routed through an oil seperator and seperates the oil vapour from the ventilated gases. The hardest part is unless the turbo goes kaput nobody would pay attention.

Anyway when it happens itwon't leave you stranded. you still can drive around 1000-2500 kms with low power.
Jomz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th May 2009, 21:06   #7
Awaiting Email Confirmation
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: India
Posts: 1,745
Thanked: 19 Times
Default

both the the PCV and the EGR will re route some oil back into the intake, thats where most of the oily residue comes from in your case. if there is no loss of performance, there is nothing to worry about.

Oil consumption is the key question. Does your car lose oil levels quickly?

The Pete's box doesnt have anything to do with the turbo charger.
rippergeo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th May 2009, 21:26   #8
Team-BHP Support
 
Jaggu's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 17,752
Thanked: 7,471 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellstar View Post
I do not have any loss in turbo performance, but that could be because of the pete's ( could it be ?)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rippergeo View Post
The Pete's box doesnt have anything to do with the turbo charger.

How can you say that? I think having a Pete will definitely hide power loss symptoms, more than a stock car. His car has VGT so the abrupt spool effect also will be lesser, which along with a remap will hide a lot imho.
Jaggu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th May 2009, 21:32   #9
Awaiting Email Confirmation
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: India
Posts: 1,745
Thanked: 19 Times
Default

All the box does is increase the amount of fuel injected. it does nothing to the turbocharger. So I'm at a loss to understand how the Tuning box causes any turbo damage. If there was a problem, hellstar would feel it as a performance loss. He's used to the power output from the pete's box, and any drop in performance would have been picked up.

If the turbo is not supplying the required amount of air, the tuning box will not give any performance benefit. It will not even be able to supply extra fuel, because the ECU will cut back on the injection based on readings from the MAF and the boost pressure sensors.
The tuning box depends on the ECU's own signals to determine its(tuning box's) output.

I'm not familiar with the OBD from hyundai, but it should be pretty straightforward to check if the turbo is working properly. Dont know what numbers the VGT makes though.

Last edited by rippergeo : 11th May 2009 at 21:42.
rippergeo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th May 2009, 21:40   #10
Team-BHP Support
 
Jaggu's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 17,752
Thanked: 7,471 Times
Default

hello i did NOT say it caused turbo damage! I said it will hide power loss!

And since you asked about Turbo damage, there might be several reason for a turbo failure, which includes additional strain than it was designed for originally. More fuel = more power, isnt it adding strain to engine parts including turbo, which needs to handle more boost, spooling/higher rpms, heat etc. Anyways i might not be the right person to comment on this. This was just a common sense statement.
Jaggu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th May 2009, 21:47   #11
Senior - BHPian
 
hellstar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,071
Thanked: 17 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
But so much of oil to make it drip, that sounds weird? How is the oil consumption in your car?
Normal , i change oil every 10,000 kms and there is no substantial loss in oil levels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jomz View Post
I'd say this is a bit high. I think it must be the turbo seals only- since the crankcase ventilation needs to be routed through an oil seperator and seperates the oil vapour from the ventilated gases. The hardest part is unless the turbo goes kaput nobody would pay attention.

Anyway when it happens itwon't leave you stranded. you still can drive around 1000-2500 kms with low power.
Ok next service i am getting this seals checked up for sure. and it really is a big load off my mind that i dont get stranded.
hellstar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th May 2009, 21:56   #12
Awaiting Email Confirmation
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: India
Posts: 1,745
Thanked: 19 Times
Default

Ok,
I'm saying, that the Pete's box is very dependent on the turbo being able to supply adequate amount of air, so, if the turbo does not perform, the tuning box will be useless, and unable to compensate for power loss.

Boost remains unchanged after pete's box, I checked.
The rpms at which the turbo spools up remain unchanged too.

Wear and tear due to extra power and torque happens on the drivetrain mainly. On turbos, not heard of it so far. That happens when the boost is unnaturally high for that particular turbo, i.e when the turbo is forced to make more boost than it is capable of producing efficiently.

@hellstar- if it aint broke, dont fix it!
The seals are delicate, and if handled improperly, by untrained mechs, will result in a lot of damage. The Verna VGT is rather expensive, and dealers will try their best to wash their hands off turbo replacements on warranty, even if they are to blame.

Last edited by rippergeo : 11th May 2009 at 21:58.
rippergeo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th May 2009, 21:59   #13
Team-BHP Support
 
Jaggu's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 17,752
Thanked: 7,471 Times
Default

You might be correct, i have never bothered to read up more on these power box's in the first place so it will be inappropriate for me to comment.

@hellstar: Its highly unlikely you will get stranded, even if there is a minor leak. Better indication will be to keep an eye on oil level and oil at exhaust tips, unusual smoking at exhaust.
Jaggu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th May 2009, 22:08   #14
Senior - BHPian
 
Psycho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,042
Thanked: 95 Times
Default

One of the key reason I have seen for oil coming into the intercooler is if the filter is not clean or undersized as the suction created in the turbo can end up pulling in oil from the seal(note this is on petrol turbo's don't have enough experience on TDi's / CRDI's). It can also be due to the breather valve but quite rare unless there is a blow-by issue (in this case it would be excessive oil fumes and not oil directly more often than not)
Psycho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th May 2009, 22:10   #15
Awaiting Email Confirmation
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: India
Posts: 1,745
Thanked: 19 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post

@hellstar: Its highly unlikely you will get stranded, even if there is a minor leak. Better indication will be to keep an eye on oil level and oil at exhaust tips, unusual smoking at exhaust.
+1 to that. If the oil levels are dropping rapidly, then you have trouble, otherwise, leave it alone, especially when you're not experiencing a performance drop.
rippergeo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Indigo TDI - Oil coming out of dipstick tube! asdfvinay Technical Stuff 16 21st May 2013 16:13
Verna CRDI Engine Oil Changed - Dipstick still comes out black newcoolgadgets Technical Stuff 7 13th December 2009 08:42
Diffrence between an ordinary cold air intake and a ram air intake?? Vys De BlUR Technical Stuff 24 1st April 2008 12:59
Synthetic oil for Getz / verna Crdi rrnsss Technical Stuff 4 16th January 2008 21:27


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 09:08.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks