Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Technical Stuff


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11th June 2009, 21:50   #16
Senior - BHPian
 
KSM-Vtec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: MH-02-India-Bombay-Bandra
Posts: 1,563
Thanked: 437 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by abhik View Post
This is normal except if it happens when you are moving from standstill, the RPM should not rise when you depress the clutch when you are engaging 1st gear to move from a standstill.
Otherwise when you are shifting, especially when pushing the car hard at higher RPMs, its very normal for the RPM to rise 100-200revs. Ikons and Mondeos climbs about 400-500revs while shifting gears.

PS. Sorry MODS for the back to back posts, other posts came in while i was typing the previous post.
ya in my case it happens even when you move from standstill. the rpm rises by minimum 400

Quote:
Originally Posted by abhik View Post
Spot on Sideways, excellent description! KSM thats exactly what you need to do. Apart from this if the problem still persists on AC then do get the AC gas checked and topped up as well.
If the problem still persits then you have to get the TP sensor checked.
Can low AC gas be a cause for this?? havent checked it for the last 30k kms/ 2 yrs..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tejas@perioimpl View Post
Go to a guy with a scanner and check the error codes and then ask him to reset it. First and foremost. Then check for other issues.
I know of a guy in south bombay if you interested. Petrol pump next to Mucchad's (Dayaram Santdas). Charges 500bucks.

Check your matting, does the accelerator pedal get stuck and then disengage? Seems very stupid, but trust me this can happen. Happened in my 118NE.
ok ill check if you say so, but i really doubt that.

Last edited by KSM-Vtec : 11th June 2009 at 21:52.
KSM-Vtec is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th June 2009, 11:16   #17
Senior - BHPian
 
KSM-Vtec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: MH-02-India-Bombay-Bandra
Posts: 1,563
Thanked: 437 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sideways View Post

There is a air screw on top of the thrrottle body (it's like that on the Mitsubishi, postion might vary for Hondas), which can be adjusted to fine tune the idling rpm of the car.
Tried looking for the air screw but. Can someone plz help me with pic of a Honda TB.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ssjr0498 View Post
Hi,

please check the following

1. there is a " grey" colored thin pipe connecting to the vacuum line on you fuel rail. Please make sure that this pipe is connecting and is not lying around.
Shrey
checked for the vacuum line, its connected. So this one possibility is out of the way for sure.
KSM-Vtec is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th June 2009, 11:52   #18
Senior - BHPian
 
pranavt's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 1,628
Thanked: 272 Times
Default

I'll try to find it and take a picture today.
pranavt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th June 2009, 18:41   #19
BHPian
 
doomsday's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 420
Thanked: 4 Times
Post

Sideways has covered most of the areas, the first problem of high idle should be eradicate with this procedure. Just one pointer- remove the K&N (from the TB, just makes it easier) before you try looking for the air-screw, start the car and let it warm up until the fan kicks in, unplug the IACV (that hose) and then go about fine tuning the idle.

Once done, set the idle and turn the engine off once done. Now, reconnect the IACV, reset the ECU and crank the engine and confirm that your idle is where it should be (~750 rpm) and the CEL (which will come up due to disconnecting the IACV) has been cleared.

An off idle simply means there is a leak somewhere in the intake system. You said that this issue cropped after you got an intake and had the TB cleaned. Was the TB removed from the intake manifold? In that case it could be as simple as a leaking gasket. Have the IACV cleaned as well if it hasn't already been.

Not too sure about the deal with the AC, although it has to be down to components in the intake system and not necessarily the AC assembly itself.

Go to a mech who can do what you tell him, not what he thinks. I'm saying so since it may be slightly difficult to execute this yourself in a parking lot even though its pretty basic.

Last edited by doomsday : 12th June 2009 at 18:48.
doomsday is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th June 2009, 20:13   #20
BHPian
 
Ford Rocam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Mumbai-India
Posts: 880
Thanked: 16 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by doomsday View Post
Sideways has covered most of the areas,

An off idle simply means there is a leak somewhere in the intake system. You said that this issue cropped after you got an intake and had the TB cleaned. Was the TB removed from the intake manifold? In that case it could be as simple as a leaking gasket. Have the IACV cleaned as well if it hasn't already been.

Thats what even i recommended to him when he called me up.
Ford Rocam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th June 2009, 23:30   #21
Senior - BHPian
 
KSM-Vtec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: MH-02-India-Bombay-Bandra
Posts: 1,563
Thanked: 437 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by doomsday View Post
Sideways has covered most of the areas, the first problem of high idle should be eradicate with this procedure. Just one pointer- remove the K&N (from the TB, just makes it easier) before you try looking for the air-screw, start the car and let it warm up until the fan kicks in, unplug the IACV (that hose) and then go about fine tuning the idle.

Once done, set the idle and turn the engine off once done. Now, reconnect the IACV, reset the ECU and crank the engine and confirm that your idle is where it should be (~750 rpm) and the CEL (which will come up due to disconnecting the IACV) has been cleared.

An off idle simply means there is a leak somewhere in the intake system. You said that this issue cropped after you got an intake and had the TB cleaned. Was the TB removed from the intake manifold? In that case it could be as simple as a leaking gasket. Have the IACV cleaned as well if it hasn't already been.

Not too sure about the deal with the AC, although it has to be down to components in the intake system and not necessarily the AC assembly itself.

Go to a mech who can do what you tell him, not what he thinks. I'm saying so since it may be slightly difficult to execute this yourself in a parking lot even though its pretty basic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ford Rocam View Post

Thats what even i recommended to him when he called me up.

@Jitu & doomsday - thanx a lot for the inputs, will get it done soon. My next service is due anyways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pranavt View Post
I'll try to find it and take a picture today.
any luck??
KSM-Vtec is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th June 2009, 08:40   #22
BHPian
 
1self's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pune
Posts: 627
Thanked: 266 Times
Default

Kaushik...I agree with Jitu & doomsday. Also, if you reset your ECU, the trouble codes will be automatically erased. Try it. Also after resetting, remember the ECU takes time to rebuild it's long & short term fuel trims, so don't expect everything to work out instantly.
1self is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th June 2009, 15:31   #23
BHPian
 
abhik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 848
Thanked: 8 Times
Default

@KSM- What i meant was if you are standing still and you depress the clutch the RPM should not fluctuate.

And with the A/C Gas i meant that if the A/C Gas(refridgerant) is less or is leaking then the compressor will keep cutting off which results in the RPM fluctuation.
abhik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2009, 09:54   #24
Senior - BHPian
 
KSM-Vtec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: MH-02-India-Bombay-Bandra
Posts: 1,563
Thanked: 437 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by abhik View Post
@KSM- What i meant was if you are standing still and you depress the clutch the RPM should not fluctuate.

And with the A/C Gas i meant that if the A/C Gas(refridgerant) is less or is leaking then the compressor will keep cutting off which results in the RPM fluctuation.
Thanks for the inputs, but -

The RPM does not fluctuate but it remains high for a few seconds even after i have come to a standstill and have shifted to neutral.

So if there is no fluctuation will getting the A/c gas checked help? Could less gas also be a cause for high rpm when the a/c is on?

Just for my understanding, could you explain why the compressor would keep cutting off if the gas is less?
KSM-Vtec is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th July 2009, 19:56   #25
abk
BHPian
 
abk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: NOIDA / Gurgaon
Posts: 276
Thanked: 8 Times
Default

My OHC II 1.5 Exi has the opposite problem: Since the engine and gearbox mountings were changed (local garage) whenever the AC is switched on the car vibrates a lot. The vibrations are more pronouced when the car is idling or at low RPMs. The vibrations persist regardless of the AC fan speed (1 or 4). Yesterday, when I showed it to the mechanic who replaced the engine and the gearbox mountings he advised that whenever the AC is switched on the engine RPM should increase which is not happening. I have observed that the RPM stays at ~0.8 at idling & the vibrations start to fade away starting above RPM 1.5k rev/min.

Any clues/obvious culprits?
abk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th January 2010, 14:19   #26
Senior - BHPian
 
KSM-Vtec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: MH-02-India-Bombay-Bandra
Posts: 1,563
Thanked: 437 Times
Default

I the rpm is supposed to settle down at the normal level. i think the vibration at .8k rpm is due to the resonance at that level. just chk if the mounting has been installed properly. i dont think there is nething wrong with the ac.

Quote:
Originally Posted by abk View Post
My OHC II 1.5 Exi has the opposite problem: Since the engine and gearbox mountings were changed (local garage) whenever the AC is switched on the car vibrates a lot. The vibrations are more pronouced when the car is idling or at low RPMs. The vibrations persist regardless of the AC fan speed (1 or 4). Yesterday, when I showed it to the mechanic who replaced the engine and the gearbox mountings he advised that whenever the AC is switched on the engine RPM should increase which is not happening. I have observed that the RPM stays at ~0.8 at idling & the vibrations start to fade away starting above RPM 1.5k rev/min.

Any clues/obvious culprits?
KSM-Vtec is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th October 2013, 22:54   #27
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: mumbai
Posts: 17
Thanked: 0 Times
Default New Wagon R idling vibration problem and very strange rpm settings

Hi Friends and Gurus

This is my first topic on teambhp and maybe a little long but need your expert views on my observations which are disturbing to a layman like me.
I bought Wagon R Lxi Cng on 6th Sept 2013 and immediately felt vibrations during idling was too high but attributed this to maybe a new engine. After 10 days when I went to the dealer workshop for clarifying accessories and warranty terms I got the car checked and to my surprise I was told that being 3 cylinder vehicles it will vibrate and was shown 4 other cars with the same kind of abnormal (for me, but not to them) vibrations. They also scanned my car with the scanner and said all parameters are correct and no error codes which means it will vibrate as it is and there is no way out.

Normally being a layman I would have accepted the answer and leave it at that but somehow I felt things needed to be explained why the same 3 cylinder does not vibrate at slightly higher rpm and asked them to increase my idling rpm to which they refused. When I insisted on escalating the issue I was given an appointment after 3-4 with Maruti TSM at the dealer workshop.

At the appointed day and hour the TSM also gave me the same story and brushed my query aside ki sir yeh toh aisa hi rahega. I lost my cool and asked the car to be scanned in front of me and imagine my surprise when on scanning I found the following parameters programmed in the ECM

1. Desired Idling rpm with AC switch and relay SWITCHED OFF - 871 RPM
2 Desired Idling rpm with AC switch and relay SWITCHED ON - 847 RPM.

Now when I asked the TSM about why, he had no answers as to why the desired rpm is programmed lower when an extra heavy load like Aircon compressor is attached, his reply was just that it is a design after testing and cannot be changed and asked me to mail him my observations to him and he will revert after he gets reply from the factory. In the past 15 days and 6 mails later I am still to receive any technical reply from him.

Now what confused me further is that whoever I have asked including techies, garage mechanics, even Maruti workshop engineers have all said that idling rpm with AC should be higher.

I hope somebody will clear my doubts in this forum of car geniuses and enthusiasts. I am also trying to attach screenshot of readings taken on suzuki obd scanner.

Sorry not able to attach now, maybe larger file size than what is allowed, but will definitely upload after my topic is approved by the mods and posted.
Thanks.

Last edited by Technocrat : 10th October 2013 at 23:12. Reason: Added line breaks for better readability, thanks
Ageing Stud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th October 2013, 00:57   #28
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 9,370
Thanked: 13,345 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ageing Stud View Post
1. Desired Idling rpm with AC switch and relay SWITCHED OFF - 871 RPM
2 Desired Idling rpm with AC switch and relay SWITCHED ON - 847 RPM.
Very surprising to see this idling set in for the car. Should be the other way round. While your on it get the engine mounts also checked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ageing Stud View Post
Now what confused me further is that whoever I have asked including techies, garage mechanics, even Maruti workshop engineers have all said that idling rpm with AC should be higher.
It obviously has to be higher RPM with the AC running.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ageing Stud View Post
I hope somebody will clear my doubts in this forum of car geniuses and enthusiasts. I am also trying to attach screenshot of readings taken on suzuki obd scanner
I have a Ritz VDi and I too have used my OBD II reader to get the exact values. Here are the details and screen shots.

1) In idle - Without AC:

a. RPM range: 803 - 819
b. Load: 18.8%
c. Fuel Rail Pressure: 4699 psi

2) In Idle - With AC:

a. RPM range: 888 - 928
b. Load: 31.0%
c. Fuel Rail Pressure: 5424 psi

The screen shots:

1) In idle - Without AC:
Name:  IMG20131011WA0000.jpg
Views: 493
Size:  79.8 KB

1) In idle - With AC:
Name:  IMG20131011WA0001.jpg
Views: 488
Size:  78.9 KB

Anurag.
a4anurag is online now   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 11th October 2013, 18:10   #29
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: mumbai
Posts: 17
Thanked: 0 Times
Default Re: Engine Idling Problem

Hi Anurag,
Thanks for confirming my views. In fact even the TSM was of the same view and was surprised when he saw the rpm figures. Now the million dollar question is what should I do, take Maruti answer of not being able to change the design (God knows how reprogramming ECU for idling rpm constitutes a design change) or press harder to get it rectified or atleast publicise it as manufacturing defect which Maruti has a liability to rectify.
Ageing Stud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th October 2013, 22:37   #30
BHPian
 
Catalyst_delhi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Noida/Coimbator
Posts: 339
Thanked: 148 Times
Default Re: Engine Idling Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ageing Stud View Post
Hi Anurag,
Thanks for confirming my views. In fact even the TSM was of the same view and was surprised when he saw the rpm figures. Now the million dollar question is what should I do, take Maruti answer of not being able to change the design (God knows how reprogramming ECU for idling rpm constitutes a design change) or press harder to get it rectified or atleast publicise it as manufacturing defect which Maruti has a liability to rectify.
You can change the relay for the AC switch, There is a relay which closes a contact when the AC is switched on to tell the ECM to increase RPM. This may be fitted in reverse or the ECM not programmed properly. You can try to re install the software in the ECM/ try some switch like i mentioned above. strange indeed this must be an electrical fault from the factory.
Catalyst_delhi is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Problem with Vtec idling...varying RPM. EDIT : Solved! GTO Technical Stuff 99 22nd January 2017 16:48
Starting and idling problem in Carb Zen archat68 Technical Stuff 30 28th March 2014 14:37
Inconsistent idling and engine shut off problem DCEite Technical Stuff 17 18th May 2012 22:37
Swift Vxi Idling Problem bill1182 Technical Stuff 4 20th July 2011 22:34
Idling problem in my WagonR Lxi..EDIT : Now solved. ramki067 Technical Stuff 8 17th December 2007 11:19


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 20:38.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks