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Old 18th February 2015, 14:02   #451
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Default Re: Some quality niggles & Issues in Fiat Punto

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Dear Bhpians,

Need your help!!

Yesterday I have run into a very strange issue with my Punto-90hp. The passenger side Central AC vent is throwing warm/less-cool air than other AC vents. Except that vent, all other vents are working alike & perfect . I did all experiments, but this behaviour was consistent.

Today, I went to Vecto Fiat, at first they did not buy what I said, they told me all Puntos and Lineas are like this, a technician set the car temp to 22C and claimed that all 4 vents are cool, at that time outside temp was 31C. I have increased the car temp to 26C and the problem was reproduced. I along with 3 technicians & a thermometer did the same test on a Linea, it worked perfectly. Now, they got convinced that something is wrong with my car and said they would flush the freon and fill it back. But, even after that, the central left vent was throwing warm/less-cool air.

After this, service executive told me AC-flap actuators could be in fault here. To fix that, they would replace HVAC unit (INR 20000) under warranty and it would take 3 days to fix on my car as the dashboard has to be removed. They told me, if FIAT has to approve this, then Dealer has to send a DIR (Dealer info report) to FIAT and the next steps will follow.

I am very much confused now, a 1 Year old Punto which has got a faulty HVAC?? Guys, I need your help, did any of your car has run into this issue in the past?

Please suggest me what to do, I am unsure if FIAT is driving this properly...

-Sai
Folks,

Today, I have got another problem with the AC, the car aircon is set to 29C when outside temp was 33C and the AC was throwing cool air . I increased car temp to 30, but no change, still cool air was thrown. I smell software issues with HVAC, does such thing exist, how one gets to repair it?

In addition to the "warm air from a vent problem" explained above, now I observe that the velocity of air is less in the warm air vent, when compared to driver side central vent.

I am going nuts! Any help or insight will be very helpful .

-Sai
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Old 18th February 2015, 16:25   #452
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Default Re: Some quality niggles & Issues in Fiat Punto

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Originally Posted by 90Horses View Post
Folks,

Today, I have got another problem with the AC, the car aircon is set to 29C when outside temp was 33C and the AC was throwing cool air . I increased car temp to 30, but no change, still cool air was thrown. I smell software issues with HVAC, does such thing exist, how one gets to repair it?

In addition to the "warm air from a vent problem" explained above, now I observe that the velocity of air is less in the warm air vent, when compared to driver side central vent.

-Sai
Sai,
For your first problem: This could be related to the AC Vent flap, plumbing etc. These are all rubber/plastic parts and can develop leaks etc. If Fiat is OK to replace this under warranty, I do not forsee any issues.
I had a 2009 batch 1 Punto and until i sold it last year, the AC was as chilling as ever.
Second issue (!) : The AC is controlled by a simple computer which does the basic maths of maintaining the cabin temperature as per your required settings.
In your case, if the ambient temperature is 33 degrees, and you set the AC as 29, which is lower than 33, the AC will work to maintain 29 degrees in the cabin until it reaches its target.
Based on the gap in temperature, the Auto AC will chose the blower mode for effective cooling.
So, logically, the system is supposed to throw cold air and I do not see any problem with it.
For your reference, the temperature that you set for the AC is the target cabin temperature and not the grill./vent temp, which would ideally be around 4/5 degrees.

That said, I am really curious why you'd set cabin temp to 29 degrees unless you are storing some really volatile chemicals which need to be stored under very specific temperatures (Gallium???)
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Old 18th February 2015, 18:48   #453
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Default Re: Some quality niggles & Issues in Fiat Punto

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Sai,
For your first problem: This could be related to the AC Vent flap, plumbing etc. These are all rubber/plastic parts and can develop leaks etc. If Fiat is OK to replace this under warranty, I do not forsee any issues.
I had a 2009 batch 1 Punto and until i sold it last year, the AC was as chilling as ever.
Second issue (!) : The AC is controlled by a simple computer which does the basic maths of maintaining the cabin temperature as per your required settings.
In your case, if the ambient temperature is 33 degrees, and you set the AC as 29, which is lower than 33, the AC will work to maintain 29 degrees in the cabin until it reaches its target.
Based on the gap in temperature, the Auto AC will chose the blower mode for effective cooling.
So, logically, the system is supposed to throw cold air and I do not see any problem with it.
For your reference, the temperature that you set for the AC is the target cabin temperature and not the grill./vent temp, which would ideally be around 4/5 degrees.

That said, I am really curious why you'd set cabin temp to 29 degrees unless you are storing some really volatile chemicals which need to be stored under very specific temperatures (Gallium???)
Thanks aqualeo!

Ha ha you got me on Gallium . I had set the cabin temp to 29C to reproduce my problem. But, in the past warm air would start as soon as aircon is at 27C all the times, so I was suprised.

I am quite surprised and shocked to see such problem on a 1 Yr old Punto, I wanted to keep my car for some good 7 Years, but if such problem crops up after warranty, then it could be hole in pocket..

I understood you had good time with your Punto, in that period you had any warranty replacements?

One more, how many kms did your first brake pads last? Mine got their bite at 14K and due for replacement at 17K, my in laws ritz is at 40K and still on stock brake pads. I did not abuse my car, but I do not understand why car is due for spares very soon in its life.

-Sai
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Old 18th February 2015, 19:29   #454
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Default Re: Some quality niggles & Issues in Fiat Punto

Nps
Here's my list of replacements:
1. Clutch Slave cylinder : Factory recall/replacement within 2 months of purchase
2. Over the period of 4 years of warranty period : All suspensions : Not that the car was bad, just that I was more abusive e.g. Bad roads made me speed up, just to enjoy the fantastic suspension.

3. Broke my front alloy rim after going over a 1m gap on the road (road just not there) @ 100kmph on Belur-Chickmaglur Road. Replaced the alloys at my cost.

Had the typical bangalore battle scars. First time took it to concorde. Delivery was on time but the quality was not too great. Stuck to Sai Colorium ever since and they have been really good.

No other issues in my 5 years of ownership of 40k kms.

My first set of pads were of the original soft vintage and lasted me 10k. However, they would have lasted longer. My hangover of late braking from my biking days plus my paranoia about sharp braking added to it. Those would have lasted another few thousand.
The second set lasted till 39k and still going good when I replaced as it was getting old.

You will have to consider the bulk of the car on the brake age. It doesnt cost much and the quality of the brakes are really good. The punto is easily 200+kgs heavier than the ritz: so, F = M A
Since you have defended the A bit, its just comes to the M.

I got the car serviced once a year from Vecto and I used to spend the few hours at the showroom while they were at it.
But as they say it, they dont make it like the old times any more e.g. my car came with the rear sway bars etc which were removed in 2010 as weight reduction ideas.
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Old 18th February 2015, 20:53   #455
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Default Re: Some quality niggles & Issues in Fiat Punto

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Originally Posted by aqualeo2040 View Post
Nps
Here's my list of replacements:
1. Clutch Slave cylinder : Factory recall/replacement within 2 months of purchase
2. Over the period of 4 years of warranty period : All suspensions : Not that the car was bad, just that I was more abusive e.g. Bad roads made me speed up, just to enjoy the fantastic suspension.

3. Broke my front alloy rim after going over a 1m gap on the road (road just not there) @ 100kmph on Belur-Chickmaglur Road. Replaced the alloys at my cost.

Had the typical bangalore battle scars. First time took it to concorde. Delivery was on time but the quality was not too great. Stuck to Sai Colorium ever since and they have been really good.

No other issues in my 5 years of ownership of 40k kms.

My first set of pads were of the original soft vintage and lasted me 10k. However, they would have lasted longer. My hangover of late braking from my biking days plus my paranoia about sharp braking added to it. Those would have lasted another few thousand.
The second set lasted till 39k and still going good when I replaced as it was getting old.

You will have to consider the bulk of the car on the brake age. It doesnt cost much and the quality of the brakes are really good. The punto is easily 200+kgs heavier than the ritz: so, F = M A
Since you have defended the A bit, its just comes to the M.

I got the car serviced once a year from Vecto and I used to spend the few hours at the showroom while they were at it.
But as they say it, they dont make it like the old times any more e.g. my car came with the rear sway bars etc which were removed in 2010 as weight reduction ideas.
Thanks Aqualeo.

I too visit Vecto for repairs and service, they did good job to the car till now..

Right, I understand, increase in mass plays its part in brake's wear, I believe it provides great stability too..

By the way, what are the sway bars, are they imp in the car? I did not know Punto had some alterations than its european version..

-Sai
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Old 19th February 2015, 10:02   #456
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Default Re: Some quality niggles & Issues in Fiat Punto

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Originally Posted by 90Horses View Post
I am quite surprised and shocked to see such problem on a 1 Yr old Punto, I wanted to keep my car for some good 7 Years, but if such problem crops up after warranty, then it could be hole in pocket..

I understood you had good time with your Punto, in that period you had any warranty replacements?

One more, how many kms did your first brake pads last? Mine got their bite at 14K and due for replacement at 17K, my in laws ritz is at 40K and still on stock brake pads. I did not abuse my car, but I do not understand why car is due for spares very soon in its life.
I have a October 2009 Punto MJD at 78,000 km. I have had some warranty replacements :

1) Rusted door beadings. Beadings replaced and repainted.

2) Rear wiper simply fell off someday and was replaced in warranty.

There was strut pad squeaking noise @36000 km and this was not honored as the suspension warranty had just expired. I sourced the parts from Kava automobiles and got them changed from an independent mechanic. I felt FIAT should've honored this as this was a well known defect with the old Puntos and Lineas - the elastic pads were of poor quality from TATA.

I also recently changed the timing chain @75K as a precautionary measure even though there were no problems or noise. Replaced the rear shocks due to a squeaking noise.

My first set of brake pads lasted 36K. They probably would've given another 5-8K but I changed them early. My second set of pads have run 42K, should give another 3-5K. Still running on original clutch.

Don't rely when the SA says the pads and rotors are due for replacement, inspect it yourself or by an independent mechanic. I was asked to replace my brake pads @15 K and I used them happily for another 31k km.

And I intend to keep the car as long as possible.

Last edited by sdp1975 : 19th February 2015 at 10:08.
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Old 19th February 2015, 12:19   #457
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Red face Re: Some quality niggles & Issues in Fiat Punto

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Originally Posted by 90Horses View Post
now I observe that the velocity of air is less in the warm air vent, when compared to driver side central vent.
Sai,

I have lately experiencing less flow in the driver side vent (not central one) when the flaps are fully kept open. There is no issue with either central vents or the passenger side vents. This is post the replacement of the cracked vent. Fiat says they feel the vent is working perfectly fine, I feel otherwise. Since it was winter I had not bothered to get it rechecked. But now a days when AC is required, I can distinctly feel the underperforming driver side vent. Have kept the issue on hold.
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Old 19th February 2015, 12:26   #458
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Default Re: Some quality niggles & Issues in Fiat Punto

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Originally Posted by ghodlur View Post
Sai,

I have lately experiencing less flow in the driver side vent (not central one) when the flaps are fully kept open. There is no issue with either central vents or the passenger side vents. This is post the replacement of the cracked vent. Fiat says they feel the vent is working perfectly fine, I feel otherwise. Since it was winter I had not bothered to get it rechecked. But now a days when AC is required, I can distinctly feel the underperforming driver side vent. Have kept the issue on hold.
It was the same problem with my Punto as well. I got it fixed from a local car mechanic who doesa pretty job especially for car AC work in Bangalore
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Old 19th February 2015, 12:34   #459
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Default Re: Some quality niggles & Issues in Fiat Punto

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It was the same problem with my Punto as well. I got it fixed from a local car mechanic who doesa pretty job especially for car AC work in Bangalore
Which place is this. I am experiencing the lesser air flow on the driver's side vent. Somehow feel, there is a leakage somewhere. Need to get it checked.

I am afraid that if it requires opening up the dashboard, I will live with it than introduce dashboard rattles.
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Old 19th February 2015, 12:39   #460
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Default Re: Some quality niggles & Issues in Fiat Punto

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Which place is this. I am experiencing the lesser air flow on the driver's side vent. Somehow feel, there is a leakage somewhere. Need to get it checked.

I am afraid that if it requires opening up the dashboard, I will live with it than introduce dashboard rattles.
Aditya Car AC. Its near 5th Block Jayanagar Raghavendra Mutt if you know that place https://www.google.co.in/maps/place/...9e678b4d7c4272
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Old 19th February 2015, 12:56   #461
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Question Re: Some quality niggles & Issues in Fiat Punto

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I am afraid that if it requires opening up the dashboard, I will live with it than introduce dashboard rattles.
Exactly my thoughts.

Is there a possibility of blockage in the hose/pipe also in addition to the suspected leakage? Is it possible to flush check this particular hose/pipe to eliminate the blockage issue?
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Old 19th February 2015, 15:05   #462
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Mod note: Back to back posts, use Multi Quote [Quote+] instead. Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdp1975 View Post
I have a October 2009 Punto MJD at 78,000 km. I have had some warranty replacements :

1) Rusted door beadings. Beadings replaced and repainted.

2) Rear wiper simply fell off someday and was replaced in warranty.

There was strut pad squeaking noise @36000 km and this was not honored as the suspension warranty had just expired. I sourced the parts from Kava automobiles and got them changed from an independent mechanic. I felt FIAT should've honored this as this was a well known defect with the old Puntos and Lineas - the elastic pads were of poor quality from TATA.

I also recently changed the timing chain @75K as a precautionary measure even though there were no problems or noise. Replaced the rear shocks due to a squeaking noise.

My first set of brake pads lasted 36K. They probably would've given another 5-8K but I changed them early. My second set of pads have run 42K, should give another 3-5K. Still running on original clutch.

Don't rely when the SA says the pads and rotors are due for replacement, inspect it yourself or by an independent mechanic. I was asked to replace my brake pads @15 K and I used them happily for another 31k km.

And I intend to keep the car as long as possible.
Thanks sdp1975!


My brake pads have lost the bite, i too feel they are about to die, now I am getting some sound from front brakes. Anyways, I will definitely get it checked with FNG, thanks for the input.

-Sai

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghodlur View Post
Sai,

I have lately experiencing less flow in the driver side vent (not central one) when the flaps are fully kept open. There is no issue with either central vents or the passenger side vents. This is post the replacement of the cracked vent. Fiat says they feel the vent is working perfectly fine, I feel otherwise. Since it was winter I had not bothered to get it rechecked. But now a days when AC is required, I can distinctly feel the underperforming driver side vent. Have kept the issue on hold.
In my car the central left vent throws less-cool air when compared to its sibling. It was very tough for me to make service guys get convinced about it. I have asked them to show the same behavior in another Punto/Linea. Other Linea which ran 60K was throwing air consitently (Volume & Temeprature) at the central vents, then they had to agree that some issue exists in my car. Now, I am waiting for a call from Vecto to replace the HVAC (I am unsure what part are they going to replace at this point of time).

Gholdur, if possible, you can make your service guys compare Aircon of your car with another Linea/Punto, this would keep you in good proposition..

-Sai

Last edited by Jaggu : 19th February 2015 at 15:18. Reason: Back to back posts, use Multi Quote [Quote+] instead. Thanks.
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Old 19th February 2015, 15:41   #463
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Default Re: Some quality niggles & Issues in Fiat Punto

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My brake pads have lost the bite, i too feel they are about to die, now I am getting some sound from front brakes.
This is the most annoying thingaccording to meowning a Fiat Punto/Linea. You get a feeling as if the brake pads are made out of Wax. They just go off before the next due service.
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Old 20th February 2015, 15:34   #464
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Default Re: Some quality niggles & Issues in Fiat Punto

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Dear Bhpians,

Need your help!! please..

...Please suggest me what to do, I am unsure if FIAT is driving this properly...

-Sai
Hi All,

I have an update.

Today I called Mr.Dayanand from Vecto Fiat regarding the status of my issue. He told me, FIAT engineers want to look into this issue. When I insisted on the date he told me next week it would happen and he would let me know on the next Monday or Tuesday.

He also suggested me, it is okay to drive the car with the AC problem. I have not agreed to him as I have insisted to repair it first. I am getting skeptical about the FIAT's behavior, have you guys faced anything similar from FIAT? like FIAT engineers having a look at your vehicle and all??

In general, does the cars from other manufacturers like Toyota, Suzuki and etc.. have run into such fundamental issues that you know of? I am unsure if my Heart over Head act is eating my peaceful times.... .

-Sai
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Old 22nd February 2015, 20:05   #465
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Default Re: Some quality niggles & Issues in Fiat Punto

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Hi All,

I have an update.

Today I called Mr.Dayanand from Vecto Fiat regarding the status of my issue. He told me, FIAT engineers want to look into this issue. When I insisted on the date he told me next week it would happen and he would let me know on the next Monday or Tuesday.

He also suggested me, it is okay to drive the car with the AC problem. I have not agreed to him as I have insisted to repair it first. I am getting skeptical about the FIAT's behavior, have you guys faced anything similar from FIAT? like FIAT engineers having a look at your vehicle and all??

In general, does the cars from other manufacturers like Toyota, Suzuki and etc.. have run into such fundamental issues that you know of? I am unsure if my Heart over Head act is eating my peaceful times.... .

-Sai
Yesterday I have called Mr. Dayanand from vecto reg my car repair, he requested me to get the car today, i was shocked as he wanted to work on the car on a Sunday . Today evening i got a call from vecto service, they have tried various options that Fiat wanted service people to try on my car before finalizing it as a hvac defect. They have checked evaporator coil and condenser and found that issue still exist. Now they will submit a DIR with their observations to Fiat and wait for their approval. They also told me hvac unit is in stock and as soon they get approval it will be replaced.

Vecto Fiat is treating customer very nicely, have to see how they do the job on the car.

-Sai
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