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Old 20th July 2009, 16:49   #1
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Default Car stalls and then does not crank-start -Help

I have M800 1997 model 4Speed. i am having a peculiar problem in my car.
when i am driving normal without AC there is no problem but when i use AC, Deck etc and there is heavy traffic around the car halts or stops in middle and then refuses to start. it is like the Battery is drained. But horns and deck still works only starter doesn't. Then i have push start it. This problem i have face for about 4 to 5 times now. i m afraid of taking it out in traffic. I m not using the deck now-a-days for this reason. i checked the battery and all electrical wirings it is OK. first i thought it was becoz the battery is old it is 3yrs old. but i haven't used it extensively. i don't drive much. I check my alternator charging power when car is loaded with AC on and deck on, it is charging less then recommended. So i think that is the main culprit. Also i think starter carbon problem it maybe heating up much becoZ it is only when car is moving slowly in traffic. One more thing the car battery still shows green signal when starter is not working like the battery is full charged. my battery is Amaron maintenance free.
Please if anybody could help me.
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Old 20th July 2009, 17:12   #2
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Replace the starter motor. I'm afraid I cannot give you a technical explanation, although I'll recount a similar experience I had with my (then brand new) Indica V2 in 2005.

If I drove in heavy traffic with AC for around 10 mins, the car would stall and refuse to start. The temperature gauge would show overheating.All electricals would still work, but the car would just not start!

After waiting for 5-10 mins, the temp gauge would shift back to normal and the car would start up normally.

This happened about 4-5 times after which I took the car to Tata. They immediately recognized it as a starter motor problem and replaced the same under warranty.
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Old 20th July 2009, 19:32   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rakowli View Post
.....I check my alternator charging power when car is loaded with AC on and deck on, it is charging less then recommended. So i think that is the main culprit....
Rakowli, isn't the above a good enough indication that the problem lies with the alternator?

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Replace the starter motor. I'm afraid I cannot give you a technical explanation, .....

If I drove in heavy traffic with AC for around 10 mins, the car would stall and refuse to start. ....
That is a strange bunch of symptoms and an even stranger solution!!

1) How would the starter cause the car to stall in the first place?
2) Why would an electrical problem cause the car's temperature guage to rise?

Could it be possible that there was some sort of short circuit with the starter motor or the solenoid which was draining the battery?
Thats the only way i can seem to make sense of the problem you described....if it was indeed fixed by only replacing the starter motor.

cya
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Old 20th July 2009, 19:48   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rehaan View Post
That is a strange bunch of symptoms and an even stranger solution!!

1) How would the starter cause the car to stall in the first place?
2) Why would an electrical problem cause the car's temperature guage to rise?

Could it be possible that there was some sort of short circuit with the starter motor or the solenoid which was draining the battery?
Thats the only way i can seem to make sense of the problem you described....if it was indeed fixed by only replacing the starter motor.
I indeed have no clue. Your second question also came to my mind, but I got cryptic answers from the service staff.

In the end, I decided to stop reasoning and be satisfied if the problem went away. And it did.
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Old 20th July 2009, 20:44   #5
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Quote:
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....
2) Why would an electrical problem cause the car's temperature guage to rise?...
Quote:
Originally Posted by predatorwheelz View Post
I indeed have no clue. Your second question also came to my mind,....
Well i guess when i re-read my second question i did come up with a possible reason

Different electrical devices require different amounts of amperage to run (thats why the starter wont crank even when the HU might turn on), as well as have different ranges of voltages for which they will run on decently before totally stopping.
For eg. if you've ever been in a house when the voltage has dropped so low that the incandescent bulbs fail to give off any light, but the TV amazingly still works! (since TVs can work on very low voltages).

Anyway, getting to the point, maybe the ignition etc worked fine, but the voltage had dropped to a level where the radiator fan had ceased to function! That would explain the rise in temperature...

^^ Theres one possible reason.

However, that still doesn't entirely solve the mystery of replacing the starter motor...unless ofcouse there was some short circuit (or a faulty relay!)

cya
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Old 20th July 2009, 21:05   #6
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The problem might be in self starter's carbon brush, it might get sticky enough to hold the armature without rotating, and once the car cools up for about 10-15 mins then its easy to start. I had this problem on my esteem, when on long drives.

But in my case it didnt switch off by itself, i switched off the engine on railway gate after a 100 kms drive, then after 5 mins, i have ignited the engine, but self starter didnt work as if the battery is dead, then i parked car in shade for 10 mins, then i ignited again. back to normal.

Thats my case

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Old 21st July 2009, 11:53   #7
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maybe but in my case i tried to start the car after an hour long wait. Still it refused.
i have the doubt that fault lies in Starter as well as alternator. Starter carbon brush and alternator charging power. i will try to rectify them first and then see.
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Old 21st July 2009, 12:27   #8
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Is the car overheating? If so get the cooling system checked, including the thermostat which aids faster heating at cold starts.

Check starter and its connection, since the car is starting fine while being pushed. Also rule out the possibility of a weak alternator and battery. If required do a starter motor overhaul.
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Old 21st July 2009, 12:36   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rehaan View Post
Anyway, getting to the point, maybe the ignition etc worked fine, but the voltage had dropped to a level where the radiator fan had ceased to function! That would explain the rise in temperature...
Yes check radiator fan and coolant level. My earlier Santro had this problem. After running for 15 to 20 mins it becomes over heated and stall. You need to wait for 15 to 20 mins before you can start. In my case there was a coolant leakage. Trident and Advaith both tried their hand to fix it but somehow coolant was getting over in 15 to 20 days so daily I used to check the level and fill it if needed :( After 6 months I got frustrated and sold it. A sigh of relief then after
Check coolant
Check Radiator fan if it is working or not

Last edited by aka_iitd : 21st July 2009 at 12:38.
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Old 21st July 2009, 12:52   #10
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This happened to my Zen as well. Was traced back to a loose connection of the cooling fan connector that led to overheating of the engine and subsequent stalling problems with the a/c on.
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Old 21st July 2009, 13:38   #11
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No the cooling fan is working fine checked it. It is not over heating. The indicator is well below the half way mark. so no over heating problem. The starter is not taking the load when heated.
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Old 21st July 2009, 14:04   #12
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Quote:
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The starter is not taking the load when heated.
Then it could be a problem with the starter. Has it been replaced anytime in the past 12 years? Or is this the starter that came with the car?
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Old 21st July 2009, 14:18   #13
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Get your starter motor and solenoid serviced - clean the brushes and the commutator, as well as the solenoid contacts. Disconnection and reconnection may remove another problem - oxidised terminal, contact becoming worse when hot. Clean the cable lugs, washers and terminals with emery paper, reconnect and apply white petroleum jelly (Vaseline) on the terminals.
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Old 21st July 2009, 14:19   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rakowli View Post
I have M800 1997 model 4Speed. i am having a peculiar problem in my car.
when i am driving normal without AC there is no problem but when i use AC, Deck etc and there is heavy traffic around the car halts or stops in middle and then refuses to start. it is like the Battery is drained. But horns and deck still works only starter doesn't. Then i have push start it. This problem i have face for about 4 to 5 times now. i m afraid of taking it out in traffic. I m not using the deck now-a-days for this reason. i checked the battery and all electrical wirings it is OK. first i thought it was becoz the battery is old it is 3yrs old. but i haven't used it extensively. i don't drive much. I check my alternator charging power when car is loaded with AC on and deck on, it is charging less then recommended. So i think that is the main culprit. Also i think starter carbon problem it maybe heating up much becoZ it is only when car is moving slowly in traffic. One more thing the car battery still shows green signal when starter is not working like the battery is full charged. my battery is Amaron maintenance free.
Please if anybody could help me.
Simple, solution. Your fan connection is lose or your fuse is dead. Its simple and thats the only reason possible. When you switch on your A/c, the fan should start working, which doesn't and so the temperature rise is immediate and the engine switches off. I have suffered the exact problem in my car too.
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Old 21st July 2009, 16:27   #15
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I don't no if the starter was replaced in 12 yrs. This car was bought 2nd hand 4yrs back. i haven't changed the starter.
Also when AC is on cooling fan is working.
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