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Old 28th July 2009, 16:47   #1
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Unhappy Radio Frequency Car Keys Not Perfect

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Many car keys nowadays use a small RF chip in the key fob to authenticate the key to the carís antitheft computer. Itís a big improvement over the earlier system that used a resistor with potentially flaky mechanical contacts. Unfortunately, RF chips arenít perfect. A second key or a key ring looped over the ignition key can interfere with the signal between the chip and antenna and prevent the car from starting. And many vehicles will then inhibit the car from starting for several minutes after that ó even if the offending key ring is moved. Slim down your key rings, people.
Radio Frequency Car Keys Not Perfect - Popular Mechanics
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Old 28th July 2009, 17:01   #2
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A very interesting read Mithun. I have these keys and have not faced any problems thus far, but this bit of info is good to know.

The article doesn't say if there will be problems if more keys are attached to the same ring. For instance, what if someone were to keep their house keys or office drawer keys on the same ring?

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Old 28th July 2009, 17:45   #3
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There is something called Anti Collision. This is the ability of the reader to recognize multiple keys in the mganetic field and differentiate them. Moreover good key technology does not get affected by any other metal object in the magnetic fileld except when it is completely obstucting the key.

Another concern with RFID keys is security. good key technology uses dual or tripple pass authentication. it is also called challenge response authentication. this is better than the random code based single authentiaction key system. In western countries, depending on the security logic used in the key, the insurance premium is decided.
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Old 29th July 2009, 12:42   #4
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Originally Posted by StarVegabond View Post
In western countries, depending on the security logic used in the key, the insurance premium is decided.
Hope this practice comes into India as well. Currently, you do get a small discount on your premium for the fact that your car has the i-Cats system fitted.
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Old 30th July 2009, 09:12   #5
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Hope this practice comes into India as well. Currently, you do get a small discount on your premium for the fact that your car has the i-Cats system fitted.
You'll get discount on premium(max Rs.500) even if you're having a normal security system other than i-Cats.
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Old 31st July 2009, 14:12   #6
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I was under the impression that the keys for i-Cats fitted Maruti vehicles can be provided only by Maruti. Atleast that was what the guys told me when I got my Alto. Now I find that our local key duplicator can duplicate the key in minutes. They charge Rs.2000/- for it. So what is so secure about it? Anybody getting the key even for a short time ( and we can think of any numbers of them ) can just drive the car away.
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Old 31st July 2009, 15:26   #7
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Now I find that our local key duplicator can duplicate the key in minutes. So what is so secure about it? Anybody getting the key can just drive the car away.
This is not possible. The key fob contains an RFID chip that sends a signal to the ECU of the car following which it allows the engine to be cranked and started. The key's structure can be duplicated, but try inserting the key into the car and try starting it - it won't start!

So, the guy can duplicate the key, but he won't be able to use it to start the car.
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Old 31st July 2009, 19:32   #8
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The keymaker will be able to reproduce the metallic part which will allow entry into the car. That is all.

On a general note - RFID based keys can be cloned easily. So watch where you leave your keys!
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Old 2nd August 2009, 12:55   #9
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No. He duplicated the metallic part of my key for Rs.125/-. I had a pointed discussion with him in this regard and he was specific and emphatic.
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Old 2nd August 2009, 22:33   #10
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No. He duplicated the metallic part of my key for Rs.125/-. I had a pointed discussion with him in this regard and he was specific and emphatic.
How was the RFID component of i-Cats working after duplication ?
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Old 2nd August 2009, 23:32   #11
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No idea because i didn't do RFID duplication. The key maker was emphatic that I can use the duplicated key ( ie. RFID copied ones ) just like the originals. He mentioned something about getting codes for keys from maruti, but i didn't believe it a bit.
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Old 3rd August 2009, 14:30   #12
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He mentioned something about getting codes for keys from maruti, but i didn't believe it a bit.
This cannot be done. The RFID key has to be sourced from MUL as a replacement and since the codes are imbedded in the ship, you cannot source the codes from them.
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Old 10th August 2009, 12:18   #13
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This cannot be done. The RFID key has to be sourced from MUL as a replacement and since the codes are imbedded in the ship, you cannot source the codes from them.
I went to that guy again for confirmation. He CAN duplicate the key for 2000/-. He clarified that any Alto key can be copied (including RFID) , but not of Swift. I didn't ask about other models.

Surely somebody from Maruti is reading this?
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Old 10th August 2009, 13:03   #14
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I went to that guy again for confirmation. He CAN duplicate the key for 2000/-. He clarified that any Alto key can be copied (including RFID) , but not of Swift. I didn't ask about other models.

Surely somebody from Maruti is reading this?
This is unbelievable and confusing. I don't understand how he can duplicate the Alto's key and not the Swift's when they both evidently work on the same technology?

IMO, I think, he's pulling a fast one on you. AFAIK, these keys have to be ordered from MUL after quoting the serial number given.

Will be helpful and will benefit a lot of us if you can find out more.
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Old 10th August 2009, 23:33   #15
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This is unbelievable and confusing. I don't understand how he can duplicate the Alto's key and not the Swift's when they both evidently work on the same technology?
Even though the technology may be the same, the actual code format may be different.

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Will be helpful and will benefit a lot of us if you can find out more.
I would very much like to. But don't know how, other than spending Rs.2000/-
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