Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Technical Stuff


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 4th January 2010, 01:02   #136
Senior - BHPian
 
Raccoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Poona
Posts: 1,832
Thanked: 105 Times
Default

What is more, AFAIK, Teflon does not stick to anything. It has to be mechanically bonded to surfaces. Thats how its done in pans, etc. So even if you assume its added into a wax/polish product, how would you get it to even adhere to the paint?

Still, thousands fall for this scam at all dealerships. I guess they have to make money too. In fact, those whose new paint work remains undamaged by whatever stuff they use in the name of Teflon, should consider themselves lucky.
Raccoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th February 2010, 22:26   #137
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Lucknow
Posts: 136
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

This may seem a little off topic here, but its relevant both in the context of the thread, and the problem at hand. I myself bought an SX4 VVT in December 2009, and, after going through various posts here on Team-BHP, did NOT opt for teflon coating.

My first cousin bought an ANHC in November 2009, and got it teflon coated. A fortnight back, his daughter was married, and the ANHC was suitably decorated, that is to say that flowers were stuck with cello-tape all over. Now when the flowers and the tapes were removed, they left a mark. His chauffeur ended up using hair shampoo to rub the tape marks (the marks are actually a bit of dried glue with dust caught in it) off, and ended up scratching the entire car.

Now, wherever there were flowers and tape, which was all over, there are haphazard scratch marks. The scratch marks however, are on teflon, not actual paint. Its horrible, and my cousin is very unhappy. But the damage is done.

Any remedies, anyone please...
vivprasad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th February 2010, 23:36   #138
BHPian
 
Arpit's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: NOIDA
Posts: 49
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vivprasad View Post
This may seem a little off topic here, but its relevant both in the context of the thread, and the problem at hand. I myself bought an SX4 VVT in December 2009, and, after going through various posts here on Team-BHP, did NOT opt for teflon coating.

My first cousin bought an ANHC in November 2009, and got it teflon coated. A fortnight back, his daughter was married, and the ANHC was suitably decorated, that is to say that flowers were stuck with cello-tape all over. Now when the flowers and the tapes were removed, they left a mark. His chauffeur ended up using hair shampoo to rub the tape marks (the marks are actually a bit of dried glue with dust caught in it) off, and ended up scratching the entire car.

Now, wherever there were flowers and tape, which was all over, there are haphazard scratch marks. The scratch marks however, are on teflon, not actual paint. Its horrible, and my cousin is very unhappy. But the damage is done.

Any remedies, anyone please...
Ask him to try rubbing polish, my friends corolla also faced the same problem, the scratches were visibly reduced to a great extent.
Arpit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th March 2010, 17:28   #139
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Delhi
Posts: 55
Thanked: 6 Times
Default

It is my job to develop Teflon in India! Not exactly Teflon, but Inoflon. Inoflon is the tradename of INOX, just like DuPont's trade name is Teflon.

Teflon is basically Poly Tetra fluoro Ethylene (PTFE). Teflon is actually a very good material when it comes to automobiles. It is used in many parts. For example:

Q: What is the basic difference in the construction of a normal steering or a power steering?
A: A power steering has a Teflon ring at the steering rod.

The coefficient of friction of Teflon is 0.1, means it is slicker than ice. Thus dust particles dont stick to it. I wont say it would provide a 100% Scratch Free solution, since it does lack hardness (It is not a metal) and but it will definately reduce the impact of something scratch giving because of its low friction.

Because of the presence of Fluorine, it repels everything. Even the strongest acids dont attack teflon, even something as harsh as Hydrogen Fluoride wont even touch PTFE. Thus to survive such conditions (acid rain etc), Teflon coating is the best.

It has an operating range of -260 to +260 Degrees Celcius, thus the temperature resistance.

There are many properties of PTFE, but I'll bore you with the details ;P

The problem is, the type of Teflon people use for coating. Its comes in many types, Granular, Dispersion, emulsions and different grades. Dupont PTFE is good, but I've heard here in India they use cheap contaminated Teflon from China. India makes Teflon too, and thats were I work! Only some 10 big companies in the world make teflon, since it requires a very high-tech, refined, and exclusive technology. Teflon raw material is expensive, but Chinese is half the price.

Most of the PTFE (or call it Teflon) in mainstream India is low quality Chinese grade, so verify that the PTFE is only of duPont, 3M, GFL (INOX), Daikin or ElringKlinker. These are the best quality PTFE manufacturing companies.

Last edited by nutcracker : 8th March 2010 at 17:30.
nutcracker is offline   (6) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 10th March 2010, 17:10   #140
Senior - BHPian
 
Raccoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Poona
Posts: 1,832
Thanked: 105 Times
Default

^^^Frankly, that wasn't very convincing dude. Like... for starters, how do you propose to have PTFE stick to the paint? I know it does not react with acids, but that does not mean it will protect the paint when it is applied on painted surfaces. I can quite imagine that Teflon (assuming its really there in whatever product claims to contain it) itself remaining undamaged... but that does not mean it will protect the paint which it is supposed to stick on (how??).
Raccoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd September 2010, 22:35   #141
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: India
Posts: 673
Thanked: 138 Times
Default

Hi,

I am posting this query here as I thought this is the appropriate place -

I recently bought my first car which is having non-metallic/non-pearl effect paint, .i.e., Flash Red where the manufacturer gave warranty of paint for 3years. I didn't opted for the teflon coating as I read through many posts in Team-BHP where this is not advisable as per the experts and experience car owners.

Now, when I go through the Car Manual, it is clearly mentioned that the manufacturer recommend at least 2 Hard Waxing per year.

My car ownership thread can be referred in the below link :
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...-review-2.html

I would like to know, as manufacturer is clearly suggesting 2 Hard Waxing per year, is it advisable to go for the Teflon Coating or may be buy some good car wax and apply it, as suggested in the Car Aesthetics... thread.

GTO : What do you suggest as I have seen you comment multiple times not to opt for Teflon coating and also you have test driven Polo extensively that too in Flash Red colour? Thanks in advance.

Last edited by AvonA7 : 2nd September 2010 at 22:37.
AvonA7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th September 2010, 19:21   #142
BHPian
 
arcotsrinivas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 41
Thanked: 2 Times
Default

I went for second service of my Alto and the service executive convinced me to get the Teflon coating done for 2500/-,Came home and was told by my father(General Manager in Hindustan Fluorocarbons Limited Makers of Hiflon PTFE) that its not possible to apply PTFE like a wax and it has to be Melted,The shine did not last for four months eventhough I shampoo my car every week and this guy at a authorized service centre fooled my by applying some wax.
arcotsrinivas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th December 2010, 17:48   #143
BHPian
 
alter.e.go's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 133
Thanked: 51 Times
Default Re: What is Teflon Coating and does it really help?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nutcracker View Post
It is my job to develop Teflon in India! Not exactly Teflon, but Inoflon. Inoflon is the tradename of INOX, just like DuPont's trade name is Teflon.

Teflon is basically Poly Tetra fluoro Ethylene (PTFE). Teflon is actually a very good material when it comes to automobiles. It is used in many parts. For example:

Q: What is the basic difference in the construction of a normal steering or a power steering?
A: A power steering has a Teflon ring at the steering rod.

The coefficient of friction of Teflon is 0.1, means it is slicker than ice. Thus dust particles dont stick to it. I wont say it would provide a 100% Scratch Free solution, since it does lack hardness (It is not a metal) and but it will definately reduce the impact of something scratch giving because of its low friction.

Because of the presence of Fluorine, it repels everything. Even the strongest acids dont attack teflon, even something as harsh as Hydrogen Fluoride wont even touch PTFE. Thus to survive such conditions (acid rain etc), Teflon coating is the best.

It has an operating range of -260 to +260 Degrees Celcius, thus the temperature resistance.

There are many properties of PTFE, but I'll bore you with the details ;P

The problem is, the type of Teflon people use for coating. Its comes in many types, Granular, Dispersion, emulsions and different grades. Dupont PTFE is good, but I've heard here in India they use cheap contaminated Teflon from China. India makes Teflon too, and thats were I work! Only some 10 big companies in the world make teflon, since it requires a very high-tech, refined, and exclusive technology. Teflon raw material is expensive, but Chinese is half the price.

Most of the PTFE (or call it Teflon) in mainstream India is low quality Chinese grade, so verify that the PTFE is only of duPont, 3M, GFL (INOX), Daikin or ElringKlinker. These are the best quality PTFE manufacturing companies.

Some very good info there.

Just the post I was looking for. Any idea who much does it cost to get it down now ? Any good places to get it done ?
alter.e.go is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th December 2010, 22:09   #144
Distinguished - BHPian
 
sgiitk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Kanpur
Posts: 7,163
Thanked: 3,759 Times
Default Re: What is Teflon Coating and does it really help?

Dust sticking to the surface will also be determined by the static. This can be pretty bad with PTFE.

PTFE is very soft and will barely last for even three months in our conditions. Suggest you use a good (preferably hard) wax.

The PTFE coating is a gimmick of workshops to make some extra bucks.
sgiitk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th February 2011, 13:13   #145
BHPian
 
fast&furious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Trivandrum
Posts: 163
Thanked: 47 Times
Default Re: What is Teflon Coating and does it really help?

Hi,
The Toyota dealer here strongly recommends this teflon coating for the Etios.They say it will prevent colour fading.And they're asking 4.odd Ks for it.Is it actually worth the money I pay for it?I'm asking you because Toyota generally provide high quality services.So there's chance of this one being a really useful one.

By the way,this is my first post here.

Regards,
F&F
fast&furious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th September 2013, 20:25   #146
BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Delhi,Allahabad
Posts: 293
Thanked: 213 Times
Default Re: What is Teflon Coating and does it really help?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudra Sen View Post
v12, I'll never bother to check this. I just don't believe in this kinda stuff. Nothing comes close to good wax polish.
+1 to that. I remember this from the days of my Dad's Amby and the yellow Waxpol tin that he used with the yellow applicator cloth.

I use the Amway Car care kit (Car Wash + Silicone Glaze) and do the job MYSELF. For the ARIA's girth, it's one hell of a job - my version of Gymming. But, the products are good - I also see many types of ARMOURALL cleaners and polishes on snapdeal at good bargains, especially the super cleaner with carnuba wax. I use an ARMOURALL large sponge (got a 1+1 deal for Rs 325/-).

First, do the job in early morning or late evening.
Second, wet the surface well, especially the lower parts of the doors and fenders as this is where you need to wash the most.
Third, start from the windshield and glass portions, then the roof, then the bonnet, followed by the upper half of the doors (most cars have a cladding in the middle, that prevents dust and muck to some extent).
Now, mildly rinse these parts with water. The soapy water will further wetten the lower parts.

Clean the sponge well, then start with the front fender (least dirty) and work towards the rear, cleaning the doors first, then the rear door / hatch and lastly, the underbody (rims under the doors and wheel arches - outside painted parts). Leave the sponge in the dirty water.

Rinse the car from the top once again. This way, the left over soap spots and unclean parts get cleaned better. Sit down near the doors and rinse them, you may have to lightly rub stubborn spots (tar spots, dried bird droppings). But caution - do NOT rub hard, the paint will get scratched.

While the car dries, use the remaining soap solution to wash the rims. Rinse the rims well.

Use a dry absorbent cloth (an old addidas T-shirt is what I use that is washed with ARIEL detergent after each wash) to wipe the surface dry. Again, do NOT rub, just pat dry. Use water where spots / marks remain. Start with the glass portions, then the doors, then the roof and the lower portions as given above.

Take another clean cloth and dip in clean water to moisten. Then, apply the polish to the cloth and apply on the painted surface in a circular motion. In case of extra wax / polish, pat it on the body, then apply. Do not apply more pressure when applying, rub lightly. The polish dries to a white haze in about 5 min, leave for about an hour. This is my tea break time.

Lastly, use a clean cloth (I use a microfiber one) to buff the polish applied parts. Go in a circular motion, starting from the roof downwards. Make sure you occasionally dust off the extra powder like polish from the cloth. Use your palm and stretched fingers to cover max surface area while buffing.

Stand back to admire your work (and feel the sweat dripping all over) and look from various angles - you may have left patches of unbuffed paintwork. I then put all the cloth / sponge used in a bucket for a nice soak and wash prior to sun drying.

I use about 3 1/2 30L buckets of water, max 4 (if very dirty) for one wash of the ARIA, don't like to use the pipe, it wastes too much water. The Nano can be done in less than 3 buckets.
lifebuoy is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 6th September 2013, 05:41   #147
BHPian
 
FlatOut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Yorkshire Dales
Posts: 300
Thanked: 362 Times
Default Re: What is Teflon Coating and does it really help?

Teflon may be safe in a power steering rack, but I'd never let it near what I eat. The whole process of making it and using it is open to questions, at the very least. Apologies for the off-topic!
FlatOut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th November 2017, 15:54   #148
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 8
Thanked: 24 Times
Default Re: What is Teflon Coating and does it really help?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudra Sen View Post
v12, I'll never bother to check this. I just don't believe in this kinda stuff. Nothing comes close to good wax polish.
Hello All, and this query goes out specially for Rudra Would be grateful to have replies from other car lovers and experts as well.

Here is my query and quandary, for your advise. I just got a black new car about 2 months back. While I am a above average car lover and maintain all my cars very well, this black beauty really has me up in arms, even though i knew well that it would need extra loving.

The black car needs to be absolutely clean all the time, but dust tends to settle on in in a matter of a couple of hours. So now, if i dust it, i risk the swirl marks. If I buff it nicely for a good shine, i get swirl marks and minor scratches. Now, as much as I would love it, I cant really wash it every day with water - that's not practical.

I tried wash n wax, and 3M Car Wax every 15 days. Still teh dust is an issue.

Now kind of concerned and cornered, i am considering a paint sealant solution from 3M so that it protects teh car from those nasty swirl marks. However, you clearly say that teflon coating and other such things are to be avoided.

So what is the way out to keep my black beauty shiny, clean, glossy - without swirl marks or scratches? Can you recommend a DIY product? Essentially, what program and product can i follow for a special Sunday cleaning along with daily weekday maintenance, without getting te car blemished.

Look forward to hear from you. Cheers and best wishes!
AjayJohri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th November 2017, 22:33   #149
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 3,083
Thanked: 252 Times
Default Re: What is Teflon Coating and does it really help?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AjayJohri View Post
...
...
So what is the way out to keep my black beauty shiny, clean, glossy - without swirl marks or scratches? Can you recommend a DIY product? ....
There is no way that you can protect your car from the micro-scratches and swirl marks in this country! You'd be a happier man to accept the reality and live with it.
And, yes, in future, never buy a black car.
anupmathur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st November 2017, 11:17   #150
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 8
Thanked: 24 Times
Default Re: What is Teflon Coating and does it really help?

Quote:
Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
There is no way that you can protect your car from the micro-scratches and swirl marks in this country! You'd be a happier man to accept the reality and live with it.
Hi Anup! Thanks for rubbing it in

Yesterday, I spent some time in car detailing workshop. So while we have 3M sealant coatings as well as ceramic coatings, what emerged as a superior, albeit bit expensive, option is the Paint Protection Film - PPF. This is what I get:

- 12K for bumpers, bonnet, boot lid, orvms, footboard, door linings, behind door handles
- 2 years warranty for the above: replacement in case of any issue within 24 months
- PPF being a cover of sorts will be far superior to the best of the coatings, as it is a sturdy laminate which will not expose the car paint during normal usage.
- PPF's inherent quality allows some bit of self-healing of micro scratches under sunlight, so that's a bonus
- Once installed, PPF is not visible at all
- It can be rubbed, polished, waxed to get high-gloss, just like the painted body

This sounds good to me, and I will get it done shortly. The entire car will cost me 25K with 2 years of guarantee and lots of goodies thrown in - but i aim to go ahead with the 12K version

This guy is not 3M, but I see 5-7 cars everytime at his workshop. I also happened to meet one customer who had got his entire new elantra fully wrapped with PPF and was there for his second car work - he spoke quite highly of this guy.

Your views, along with those of any other, will be more than welcome on this.

And Anup, if it ain't black, it ain't the real beauty it actually is!
AjayJohri is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Teflon Coating-dupont, Making Fool Or Wt? a4_attitude Modifications & Accessories 42 12th April 2016 10:31
Teflon Coating - Harmful on new cars? greenhorn Technical Stuff 46 30th October 2014 17:58


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 19:20.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks