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Old 5th September 2009, 14:24   #1
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Exclamation Problem with Skoda Superb 3.6 V6 FSI Petrol

Hi, my friend Manav Dhawan has recently purchased a Skoda Superb Petrol 3.6 V6 FSI Petrol from Krishna Auto, Chandigarh on 24th aug 09.

During the entire purchase process no one at the dealership informed him about the quality of fuel (octane value) to be used in the car. They have deliberately hidden the fact that it can only be run on 95 ron petrol which has no availability in his (Ambala) or nearby cities.

As he was not aware about the specific octane rating as required by this particular car, he was using usual 91 ron rating petrol in his new car. Now coincidently when he was going through the manual, he was shocked to find out that it only requires 95 ron petrol and anything inferior may damage the engine.

When he tried to contact people at the same dealer and ask them about the availability of the required rated petrol, they simply turned him back by saying that you keep using the normally available petrol and nothing will happen.

Baffled by the irresponsible remarks of the dealer, when he mailed the issue to skoda india, the response was negative and they instructed him to use 95 ron petrol only for the normal running and anything else would certainly damage the engine.

Now this is yet again a very big goof up by skoda, that they are selling a model which requires a specific rating of petrol which has no availability.

It is yet again a case of shear cheating and manipulating the facts by the dealer M/s Krishna Auto Chandigarh, where they are selling a model, which cannot be run with the available fuel.

Consider the scenario where a person has spent 24 lacs (approx) and yet he is not able to drive the car due to the lack of availability of the required rating fuel, furthermore dealer is not giving any satisfactory answer to our queries.

I request you all to please help/advice for further action.

Owner Name : Manav Dhawan
Dealer : Krishna Auto Chandigarh
Date of Purchase : 24th Aug, 2009
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Old 5th September 2009, 15:01   #2
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Im not sure why this engine needs 95ron. It only produces around 72bhp/ltr and 97nm/ltr.

Irrespective of engine size, if the specific output is low, fuel quality shouldn't really make that much of a diff.

Moreover, is compression ratio the only variable for Octane rating. Isn't cylinder compression pressure also important, as high pressure equates to high temp causing uncontrolled detonation?

I mean if you take a high comp ratio engine with a restrictive intake/exhaust and a slightly lower comp ratio engine with performance intake/exhaust. Is it not possible that both engines could have similar cylinder pressure?

Which prob explains why forced induction engines with low comp ratio can still produce way more torque than a high comp ratio NA engine of the same cc.

Shan2nu

Last edited by Shan2nu : 5th September 2009 at 15:04.
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Old 5th September 2009, 15:28   #3
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Hi,

While shan2nu may have a point, the real issue here is 2 fold:

1. The user will have to use fuel as stated in the manual, especially now that Skoda has reiterated the same

2. If he does'nt and god forbid, there is any issue with the engine (even if it is not fuel related), Skoda might use the 'low fuel quality' gremlin to wriggle out of warranty.

The dealer should have informed the customer about the fuel requirements while buying this car. But then, it's not a normal dealer, it's a Skoda dealer, so naturally a customer would be expected to read the manual before hand, check up everything on the internet about fuel requirements, and then buy the car!
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Old 5th September 2009, 15:54   #4
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All new engines of Skoda (even 1.4 petrol of Fabia) need 95 RON Petrol as per the owners manual. Skoda has never bothered to modify the engines to suit 91 RON as 95 is not available in India. You may ask the Skoda wisecrack as to why they have introduced an engine which cant run on Indian fuel, while engines of even Merc, BMW & Audi etc., run happily on our 91 RON Fuel.

Normally by using 91, you will experience a drop in power but no harm should come to engine. The bigger issue is dirty or adulterated fuel, as European filters are not designed to handle dirty fuel and dirty fuel may choke the engine. So use fuel from reputed pumps only

It will also be better to give letters in writing to Skoda and your dealers so there may be proof, in case of a problem later on
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Old 5th September 2009, 16:35   #5
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Quote:
when he mailed the issue to skoda india, the response was negative and they instructed him to use 95 ron petrol
Who in Skoda did he send a mail to? I think the guy / girl who replied must have referred to the manual and replied that you need 95 ron petrol. Now, the problem with the manual is that Skoda may have simply imported the manual from abroad without making any changes hence the confusion everywhere.

I think the engine should work with normal unleaded fuel.
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Old 7th September 2009, 22:08   #6
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It has been clearly stated in the manual that the fuel should be Petrol ron97/95 only, the same has been confirmed their mail as well.

I have asked him to post the exact mail as well to have better clarity on the subject.

As far as other Skoda cars are concerned, it is not universal (or printing error for India), As for Skoda Octavia RS it suggests Petrol ron 91, same is for Octavia and Laura. So I guess that the issue is with Skoda Superb V6 only.
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Old 7th September 2009, 23:08   #7
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Hope this is not a underhanded move by Skoda to evade responsibility and wash their hands off engine problems incase things go wrong by pointing to the quality of fuel used and the requirements mentioned in the car manual. Given their indifference to customer problems this is a real possibility. I would suggest to get it in writing/email from the dealer, and Skoda India. May be useful in future incase things go wrong.
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Old 7th September 2009, 23:19   #8
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@turbohead\ankur
tell him to use octane boosters at least as speed 97 is not available in chd too
in case he needs help for octabe boosters,i can help since we are using them for the R1
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Old 8th September 2009, 03:12   #9
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I too checked and found that the V6 superb requires only 95-97 octane fuel. Yes it could run with 91 but that could lead to problems in the future.
In case no one knew, the V6 skoda is also a 4WD.

While its rival the honda accord V6 is at home with the 91 octane, the superb is not and wrong fuel will tell in its running and power delivery.
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Old 8th September 2009, 04:48   #10
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Quote:
While its rival the honda accord V6 is at home with the 91 octane, the superb is not and wrong fuel will tell in its running and power delivery.
This is whats confusing. Both engines are close wrt engine capacity, power and torque output so why does one need 95/97 while the other is happy with 91?

Its prob an error or a gimmic. Similar to Honda saying that Indian diesel is not good enough for their diesel engines, when every other manufacturer is successfully running them in the country.

Shan2nu
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Old 8th September 2009, 09:56   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shekharlele View Post
Hi,

While shan2nu may have a point, the real issue here is 2 fold:

1. The user will have to use fuel as stated in the manual, especially now that Skoda has reiterated the same

2. If he does'nt and god forbid, there is any issue with the engine (even if it is not fuel related), Skoda might use the 'low fuel quality' gremlin to wriggle out of warranty.

The dealer should have informed the customer about the fuel requirements while buying this car. But then, it's not a normal dealer, it's a Skoda dealer, so naturally a customer would be expected to read the manual before hand, check up everything on the internet about fuel requirements, and then buy the car!
Quote:
Originally Posted by amit View Post
Who in Skoda did he send a mail to? I think the guy / girl who replied must have referred to the manual and replied that you need 95 ron petrol. Now, the problem with the manual is that Skoda may have simply imported the manual from abroad without making any changes hence the confusion everywhere.

I think the engine should work with normal unleaded fuel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo Head View Post
It has been clearly stated in the manual that the fuel should be Petrol ron97/95 only, the same has been confirmed their mail as well.

I have asked him to post the exact mail as well to have better clarity on the subject.

As far as other Skoda cars are concerned, it is not universal (or printing error for India), As for Skoda Octavia RS it suggests Petrol ron 91, same is for Octavia and Laura. So I guess that the issue is with Skoda Superb V6 only.
hi friends .........
well, we have been in contact with Mr. Santosh Kulkarni,After Sales,
Skoda Auto India Pvt. Ltd., for this fuel issue and he took almost a week to get back with a reply stated bellow

""""

Dear Mr. Ankur Dhawan,



This is in regards to the fuel to be used in the Superb V6 3.6 ltr Petrol Engine. Kindly be apprised that minimum RON 95 fuel has to be used for regular driving conditions in the car. RON 91 is not recommended for the regular use and can be used only in case of emergency.



This is for your information.



Regards,



Santosh Kulkarni,

After Sales.



©koda Auto India Pvt. Ltd.

501, Signature Towers,

Tower A,

South City I,

NH8, Gurgaon-122001

Haryana, India.

E-mail:- Santosh.Kulkarni@skoda-auto.co.in

"""""""
i am attaching 2 scanned copies of manual about the usage of fuel and its prose and cons . well inside the fuel cap its clearly written 95 / 97 RON.
Attached Thumbnails
Problem with Skoda Superb 3.6 V6 FSI Petrol-3.6-ltr-skoda-1.jpg  

Problem with Skoda Superb 3.6 V6 FSI Petrol-3.6-ltr-skoda-2.jpg  

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Old 8th September 2009, 12:38   #12
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95RON is the standard Premium Petrol under the EIII/EIV specs. Someone did not bother. I have a feeling that the standard 91RON will be adequate (in all EIII ciies) and if you get IOC XP (93RON) it is within tolerance of 95RON. I will not pay Rs.10 a litre extra for 97RON even if available.

Modern ECUs with their knock sensors will be able to detune the engine slightly if required.
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Old 8th September 2009, 13:10   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shan2nu View Post
Which prob explains why forced induction engines with low comp ratio can still produce way more torque than a high comp ratio NA engine of the same cc.

Shan2nu
Umm, the reason FI engines produce more torque is because more air + more fuel = bigger bang = more motive force. Also dynamic compression ratio matters and I'm not that well versed in hardcore engine building to talk about how.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shan2nu View Post
This is whats confusing. Both engines are close wrt engine capacity, power and torque output so why does one need 95/97 while the other is happy with 91?

Its prob an error or a gimmic. Similar to Honda saying that Indian diesel is not good enough for their diesel engines, when every other manufacturer is successfully running them in the country.

Shan2nu
It is neither Shan. I don't see why you are so keen on dismissing this. The static compression ratio is the primary spec on which the octane rating of the fuel required is decided.

The Honda J series V6 engine in the Accord has a compression ratio of 10:1. The Civic's R18A has nearly the same compression ratio at 10.5:1, but it is detuned for Indian fuel. This is because the J engines have oil squirters in it's engine block which cools down the pistons letting it run with lower octane fuel. It also uses very sober ignition timing in stock form, unlike the R18. The VR6 engine used in the Superb runs at a stratospheric 12.5:1 compression ratio. The FSI system lets the engine run lower octane fuel with higher compression, which is the only reason it doesn't require 100RON fuel.

EDIT : The Indian Accord V6 IS detuned, producing 5N-m torque less than it's USDM counterpart.

Even then, it cannot and should not be run on 91RON.

Last edited by ImmortalZ : 8th September 2009 at 13:28.
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Old 8th September 2009, 13:53   #14
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I have to explain
Quote:
The static compression ratio is the primary spec on which the octane rating of the fuel required is decided.
before I look like an idiot.

Cylinder pressure is the final arbiter. However, you can have high static CR and still run low octane fuel. But you need to use cams that will bleed off some of that pressure and reduce dynamic compression ratio. You can have an engine run 13:1 SCR and still run on 91RON. It'll just take eons to reach 5500RPM or more before it starts making power because of the massive cams it'll require. But the Superb's engine isn't anything like that. It's USP is the massive amounts of torque that is available from low RPMs. Therefore it isn't compromising with nutso cams. Therefore it requires high octane fuel.
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Old 8th September 2009, 16:51   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akshay4587 View Post
@turbohead\ankur
tell him to use octane boosters at least as speed 97 is not available in chd too
in case he needs help for octabe boosters,i can help since we are using them for the R1
Akshay It has been very clearly mentioned in the manual (see scanned copy), Do not use any petrol additives and use only specified (RON 95) Petrol.
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