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Old 16th February 2010, 20:31   #76
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Originally Posted by unni.ak View Post
Small correction, Fiesta has an FGT.
Thanks for your answer Unni.I am aware of that.The Tata DICOR engine is a VGT that behaves like the Fiesta's FGT. The similarity I wanted to talk about was that the absence of turbo lag in the low end. That is a good quality . The TDI engine has loads of turbo lag in the low end.Drove that car for three plus years (Indica Turbo).Hence the curiosity.Hope this clarifies.

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Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ent-wrong.html (DiCOR - What went wrong?)

all the indica dicor owners have some sort of issue, ranging from unintended acelleration during ac cutoff, to full fledged lawsuits. You havent seen the maintenance costs either.

plus there is the point of marginal utility. For a car with a USP of more for less, the dicor was less for more.

rpmx, if you dont mind merge this with my previous thread
Sure Greenhorn. I don't know how I missed your thread on the forum. Must have been the wrong keywords I used to search.Not sure I can merge.
Mods, can you please help out here. Sorry to trouble you. Thanks.

Last edited by Eddy : 17th February 2010 at 10:36. Reason: Please use the edit / multiquote option instead of posting back to back posts within 20 mins. Thanks.
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Old 16th February 2010, 20:47   #77
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Originally Posted by rpmx1000 View Post
Thanks for your answer Unni.I am aware of that.The Tata DICOR engine is a VGT that behaves like the Fiesta's FGT. The similarity I wanted to talk about was that the absence of turbo lag in the low end. That is a good quality.Hope this clarifies.
Yes, this clarifies. A VGT on Fiesta would've been good, but then if wishes were horses...
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Old 16th February 2010, 20:53   #78
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I think the 1.4 DICOR is also offered on Indigo XL.
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Old 16th February 2010, 21:19   #79
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Originally Posted by FourWheelDrift View Post
I think the 1.4 DICOR is also offered on Indigo XL.
Yes. That's right. Not the intended topic of discussion but.
Now here's the conclusion I get from Greenhorn's thread:
Unfortunately the CS and XL suffered because the Vista and Manza came out! Mostly that's why the DICOR suffered. On greenhorn's thread there are some issues pointed out. But I'm still curious as to why it was a design failure. A low power output VGT is not a bad idea. The philosophy to me would have been to keep it like the Fiesta. Power it low, give it adequate grunt for most Indian's requirements. But I don't think that qualified it to be given a label like that. Maybe Tata should really have tuned it up for a 90 BHP output as has been said on the other thread. It would have done better.I don't think from what I've read, it deserves the reputation it's getting. Mechanics not understanding ECU's and calling the engine bad. That was a laugh.

BTW, Nice signature.
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Old 16th February 2010, 21:38   #80
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a car is only as good as its ASC can maintain it. If mechs didnt know how to fix/maintain it, then its as good as bust. this is a problem with tata cars in general . In the end, it becomes a question of how idiot proof tata can design an engine or a car, considering the quality of its service network

as to why exactly it was a design failure, probably only delph & tata guys who worked on it will know, and they'll never acknowledge it in public
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Old 17th February 2010, 13:01   #81
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Default 1.4 DiCOR Ownership Experience!

Let me share some bits of my ownership experience of Indigo DiCOR LX ( 2007 August Model ). I have been very happy with the Engine as such. I have done around 23 K by now and have not found any reason for complaint towards engine as such. In fact, I find it very powerful and 'driveable'. In my recent visit to Mumbai - I was cruising at around 120 Km/hr with rpm hovering around 2300. Engine was revving in a very relaxed manner. It was easy to feel that it had much more grunt ramaining. In fact, the response of engine was so encouraging that I had to 'control' my heart and restrict speed to 110-120. Engine also has good low end torque. I can not compare the turbo lag of DiCOR with TCIC - as I have no experience of TCIC. But there is definitely a turbo lag which you get used to after a little driving. I have used this car by now on different types of terrians and roads. But engine has never lost a single 'breath' or given me any issues.

Overall, I do not think that 1.4 DiCOR was a design lemon - at least my ownership experience does not give me any such clues!
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Old 17th February 2010, 14:31   #82
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Originally Posted by pranav_mankad View Post
SNIP
Overall, I do not think that 1.4 DiCOR was a design lemon - at least my ownership experience does not give me any such clues!
Thanks Pranav for taking the time out to post this.That it is not a defective engine/design is my POV too. Yours and others are exactly the kind of feedback I was looking for - As I did not find any real evidence substantiating the comments made - I was looking to establish the truth.
Cheers
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Old 17th February 2010, 14:52   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rpmx1000 View Post
Thanks Pranav for taking the time out to post this.That it is not a defective engine/design is my POV too. Yours and others are exactly the kind of feedback I was looking for - As I did not find any real evidence substantiating the comments made - I was looking to establish the truth.
Cheers
rpmx1000
If it gives you any solace let me tell you that in my family (my wife's first cousin) we do have a Dicor XL Grand. It is now almost 2 years (do not remember the exact age) and has covered over 25k on the clock. AFAIK this car has not given any sort of engine problems or for that matter any other problem that may justify the tag that some people try to ascribe to this engine. This car often does semi-long routes (within West Bengal) and is going pretty strong.

As for the reason to it's vanishing act I would say Tatas probably had a good business reason. In their current range they already have a Quadrajet (our national engine which is hugely popular now) which covers the Common Rail territory. They also support a TDI engine and a petrol engine in their cars. I do not think it made sense to the Tata boffins to have yet another diesel engine in this range. And if you also think about it you will see the logic in it.

That story about the small Dicors being design lemons and hence their withdrawal by the company is just a result of fertile imagination of some people IMO.
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Old 17th February 2010, 15:08   #84
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I agree with Zappo, They are doing good with Qjet and TDi engines on their cars. I think they do not want to increase the variants or may be they wanted 'Dicor' only for their big machines.

Someone from ERC in this forum will be able to give some info on this
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Old 17th February 2010, 15:20   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ent-wrong.html (DiCOR - What went wrong?)

all the indica dicor owners have some sort of issue, ranging from unintended acelleration during ac cutoff, to full fledged lawsuits. You havent seen the maintenance costs either.


rpmx, if you dont mind merge this with my previous thread
Even I wanted to know the reasons why this engine is called a lemon. My FIL has a Indica Dicor and I'm just back from a Madurai-Munnar-Madurai trip in this car. Apart from the NOISY engine the only noticable issue was that at times the car would move pretty fast (RPM Shooting up?) even after lifting off the throttle.

I was really surprised at the power on tap. Max power for Min Bucks!
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Old 20th February 2010, 09:18   #86
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please be careful with the delphi injectors don't even think of playing around with the rail pressure. they are very sensitive and wont take much abuse.

delphi CR units are a pain to modify. PSI engineers had told me this problem that is why they don't bother to release an engine specific box for the safari.
found this while searching for something else on tbhp. this is what i meant about the delphi common rail eqpt being less than rugged.
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Old 22nd February 2010, 12:36   #87
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So how come they have released Petes box for Ford models with Delphi CR system also how Chipexpress releases tuning box for same Safri engine which many members from Tata club Italia have installed.

I saw the thread you have quoted long ago Pure bovine excreta from some one who just write to flash memory and claims that he can design engine on the same thread.

Real reason is something else Scorpio is detuned to 120 bhp and there is some room for PSI people to tune and show performance by upping it to 140 - 150 BHP without melting the head gasket.

Safari 2.2 Engine is already tuned to 140 PS and it easily does 160 kmph ( I have driven for more then 50 km at this speed) so even if they sell a tuning box that will not up the performance without pushing in risky zone ( who will spend on a box just for 5 /10 BHP increase) does not make a good marketing case. Also Scorpio has bigger market so more probablity of finding enthusiasts who are willing to spend extra moolah and willing to take risk then Safari owners.

FYI all CR Injectors are sensitive


Quote:
:
please be careful with the delphi injectors don't even think of playing around with the rail pressure. they are very sensitive and wont take much abuse.

delphi CR units are a pain to modify. PSI engineers had told me this problem that is why they don't bother to release an engine specific box for the safari.
found this while searching for something else on tbhp. this is what i meant about the delphi common rail eqpt being less than rugged.

Last edited by amitk26 : 22nd February 2010 at 12:38.
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Old 22nd February 2010, 13:59   #88
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I believe the fiesta diesel has a siemens common rail setup.

The only confirmed tuning box install on a safari that I remember is steeroid's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
Guys I'm having trouble on my truck now that has been attributed to the tuning box that I have fitted.

Please be careful. I will update after I sort out all issues.
That didnt go well. Last I heard it was back to stock on an entirely new block + associated equipment because his TASC could not figure out what was wrong ( and was finally fixed when nikkibike stepped in).

Tuning boxes are available for the 1.4 dicor as well, but we havent recieved any long term reports of them either.

Last edited by greenhorn : 22nd February 2010 at 14:00.
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Old 22nd February 2010, 18:12   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
I believe the fiesta diesel has a siemens common rail setup.
You are entitled to your belief but Ford Duratorq has Delphi CR system atleast as per published sourecs on net. from Wikipedia entry on this engine.
"
In late 2001 the engine was fitted with Delphi common rail fuel injection and called the Duratorq TDCi (Turbo Diesel Commonrail injection), with the original unit being renamed the Duratorq TDDi (Turbo Diesel Direct injection). Although generally identical to the original engine, the addition of the common rail system meant power was increased to 130PS 128hp/95 kW), with torque rising to 330Nm (244ft·lbf). In 2002 the Duratorq TDDi was replaced by a detuned version of the Duratorq TDCi. Producing 115PS and 285Nm, this unit used a fixed geometry turbocharger in place of the variable geometry unit used in the TDDi and 130PS TDCi."


Quote:
Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
The only confirmed tuning box install on a safari that I remember is steeroid's


That didnt go well. Last I heard it was back to stock on an entirely new block + associated equipment because his TASC could not figure out what was wrong ( and was finally fixed when nikkibike stepped in).

Tuning boxes are available for the 1.4 dicor as well, but we havent recieved any long term reports of them either.
In case of Steeroid it was head crack in any case Chipexpress or not if engine is pushed beyond limit there will be issues , Pete can push 120 BHP scorp to 140 - 145 BHP and 30K is worth spending but if anyone try pushing a 2.2 liter engine to 160+ as Chip express seems to be doing then there will be some aftereffects .

Why exactly petes box push 2.2 L of mHawck to under 150 and not 160 or 170 ?
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Old 22nd February 2010, 18:30   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
You are entitled to your belief but Ford Duratorq has Delphi CR system atleast as per published sourecs on net.
the reason for my belief.... http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...ml#post1209009 (Ford Ikon TDCi Test Drive Report)

Quote:
In case of Steeroid it was head crack in any case Chipexpress or not if engine is pushed beyond limit there will be issues , Pete can push 120 BHP scorp to 140 - 145 BHP and 30K is worth spending but if anyone try pushing a 2.2 liter engine to 160+ as Chip express seems to be doing then there will be some aftereffects .

Why exactly petes box push 2.2 L of mHawck to under 150 and not 160 or 170 ?
I guess only Pete/Psi can answer that.
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