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Old 22nd February 2010, 19:30   #91
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the reason for my belief....
Greenhorn, I think you are right. The TDCi DuraTorq used in the Fiesta is basically the DLD-414 engine, developed jointly by Ford and PSA (Peugeot/Citroen).

Quoted from Wikipedia : "The DV4 is available in two versions:
One, an 8-valve design, uses a Borg-Warner KP35 turbocharger but no intercooler. This is the same turbocharger as the Renault K9K Diesel. It is Euro 3 compliant, but will receive a Diesel particulate filter from 2006 to make it Euro 4 compliant. In Ford, most Citroen and Mazda applications it uses a Siemens SID804 or SID802 common rail injection system, in Peugeot and some Citroen a Bosch common rail system is used."

Ford DLD engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also See Ford Duratorq engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Under DLD ("Tiger")
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Old 21st May 2010, 20:23   #92
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Default New lease of life for DiCOR?

Recently, Tata has reintroduced the DiCOR engine, initially in metros I assume, as BS4 diesels haven't started arriving in my state yet, in the form if the new Indigo CS eLS and eLX. The DiCOR name has been dropped, and it is now called the CR4 engine, possibly meaning Common Rail BS4.

Tata claims to have made improvements to the engine. Hopefully, there will be no more frequent and premature pump/vacuum pipe failures due to clogging, especially when the BS4 fuels start coming in.

IMO It's possible that the entry into BS3 markets is being delayed because they don't have BS4 Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel pumps open yet, which might be needed to prevent clogging.

If you look at the people who have had problematic DiCOR engines, it's mostly failure of the fueling system. this is likely a function of the bad quality of diesel available across India, and too sensitive monitors. Hopefully BS4 fuel and better tuned sensors will mean a fresh new start for the DiCOR saga, and that common rail motors will become commonplace.
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Old 21st May 2010, 22:50   #93
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When you say problematic DICOR engines do you mean TATA only or you have used it as a generic term? I have DICOR engines of both TATA and Mahindra and am yet to face any fuel related problem despite filling up at some of the most atrocious and dubious places to fill. lol.
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Old 22nd May 2010, 01:37   #94
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Dicor is a brand/trade name that tata uses for its common rail systems.

Similarly Mahindra uses CRDe
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Old 22nd May 2010, 01:55   #95
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Only the Dicor 1.4 that was launched in the IndigoXL was troublesome.
Probably, this 1.4Dicor Version2.0 is now sorted.
Probably!
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Old 22nd May 2010, 18:01   #96
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Originally Posted by vivekgk View Post
If you look at the people who have had problematic DiCOR engines, it's mostly failure of the fueling system. this is likely a function of the bad quality of diesel available across India, and too sensitive monitors. Hopefully BS4 fuel and better tuned sensors will mean a fresh new start for the DiCOR saga, and that common rail motors will become commonplace.
Then how come the Scorpio CRDe engines have been running on the same fuels for years now without any of the similar complaints. There is no excuse for Tata's shoddy quality control. They key difference is that Tata sources it's CRDe pumps from Lucas/Delphi and the Mahindra ones are from Bosch. Guess Delphi is not upto scratch here.
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Old 23rd May 2010, 20:20   #97
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Then how come the Scorpio CRDe engines have been running on the same fuels for years now without any of the similar complaints. There is no excuse for Tata's shoddy quality control. They key difference is that Tata sources it's CRDe pumps from Lucas/Delphi and the Mahindra ones are from Bosch. Guess Delphi is not upto scratch here.
Bosch has been able to localize their CRDI Fuel systems to Indian conditions, whereas Delphi hasnt been, they just import some and make some here, leading to sensitive parts.
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Old 23rd May 2010, 22:04   #98
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Originally Posted by dadu View Post
Bosch has been able to localize their CRDI Fuel systems to Indian conditions, whereas Delphi hasnt been, they just import some and make some here, leading to sensitive parts.
so finally who is at fault?

TATA or Delphi or the car owner?
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Old 24th May 2010, 10:45   #99
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Where are we headed in this thread? It might be anybody's fault but its the car owner who pays.
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Old 24th May 2010, 13:03   #100
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Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
Then how come the Scorpio CRDe engines have been running on the same fuels for years now without any of the similar complaints. There is no excuse for Tata's shoddy quality control. They key difference is that Tata sources it's CRDe pumps from Lucas/Delphi and the Mahindra ones are from Bosch. Guess Delphi is not upto scratch here.
Well as per my discussion with a senior engineer , Bosch CR components are used in Multijet engines in Tata and Fiat vehicles and they also suffer from same fate due to adulterated fuel but Bosch has good service facilities for injector cleaning. An A.S.S can get the injector cleaned in same day from Bosch. An injector cleaning machine costs carores of rupees and Bosch has established service network at all major centres. Where as Delphi lacks this backup , Delphi just replaces injectors under warranty may be because the installed base is not as big as bosh the kind of investment required in service network is not put in.


Also with CRDI engines operating at lower pressure this problem is less severe so while older Scorpio CRDe fared quite well mHwack is more vulnerable.

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so finally who is at fault?

TATA or Delphi or the car owner?
Tata for selecting Delhi, Delphi for not establishing service network.
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Old 24th May 2010, 13:19   #101
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Also with CRDI engines operating at lower pressure this problem is less severe so while older Scorpio CRDe fared quite well mHwack is more vulnerable.
not true. i have an mHawk & no such issues so far. there are many mHawk owners in this forum & nobody has faced engine issues as far as i know.

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Tata for selecting Delhi, Delphi for not establishing service network.
and the car owner suffers...

Last edited by raj_5004 : 24th May 2010 at 13:20.
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Old 24th May 2010, 14:00   #102
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Originally Posted by nitrous View Post
Only the Dicor 1.4 that was launched in the IndigoXL was troublesome.
Probably, this 1.4Dicor Version2.0 is now sorted.
Probably!
I own an Indigo LX ( Not XL ) which has Dicor 1.4. Its been 3 years and I have not faced any issues with the engine - just thought of sharing my ownership experience for the engine in question.
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Old 24th May 2010, 14:45   #103
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Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
not true. i have an mHawk & no such issues so far. there are many mHawk owners in this forum & nobody has faced engine issues as far as i know.

and the car owner suffers...
Well there are so many DICOR owners who never suffered any issue, I even drove 300 Kms on pure kerosene and just irregular idling which went away after cleaning but does this prove that no one wil have any problem?

Similarly your individual experience and that of bunch of owners here is not a sample big enough, I am sure Bosch is spending carores of rupees for those machines not just for show-off but there are some engines which need injector cleaning.
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Old 24th May 2010, 14:50   #104
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Same is the case with me, I own a 1.4 DICOR and no issues till now since Aug 07.
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Old 24th May 2010, 15:17   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dadu View Post
Bosch has been able to localize their CRDI Fuel systems to Indian conditions, whereas Delphi hasnt been, they just import some and make some here, leading to sensitive parts.
How about the CBU CRDe models like Range Rover, Merc, BMW, Volvo etc.. Shoudn't they also have the same issues with the fuel supply being imported completely along with the rest of the car?
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