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Old 21st October 2009, 13:49   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paras211 View Post
why would a 5 be better than a four.?
Since a five is the smellest engine where the power strokes overlap. As for crankshaft disbalance etc. this is not too tough a technological problem to solve.
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Old 21st October 2009, 13:53   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunil8089 View Post
Following are the cars with two and three cylinder engines in India.

Two Cylinder:
Tata Nano

Three Cylinder:
Maruti 800
Maruti Alto
Maruti Zen (old)
Maruti Zen Estilo (2009)
Maruti Astar
Skoda Fabia
Daewoo Matiz

Upcoming 800 cc engine cars:
Volkswagen Polo
Hyundai i10
Chevrolet spark

Four Cylinder:
All other cars have four cylinder engines or more.

Feel free to add, if I missed anything in this list.
Add the Accent CRDi to that list.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Cost still i feel is a big factor, imagine the savings made by removing one whole cylinder and the associated parts. Raw material itself will make a huge difference if we consider the raw material cost these days, wont it?
Jaggu, how much would 10k matter in a car of 4 Lakhs ? That is not savings, the real savings is in the kmpl.
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Old 21st October 2009, 16:57   #18
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By having a three cylinder engine, the major savings are from following items:
a. cylinder
b. piston
c. piston rings
d. valves
e. spark plug
f. HT wires
g. Fuel injector

Also usage of space in engine compartment is also a valuable commodity.

There is some savings, but it is hardly anything , especially in a production environment, compared to the busness benefit - offering a more fuel efficiency product -which may be a unique selling point (USP) for the sales.

Last edited by sunil8089 : 21st October 2009 at 17:14.
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Old 22nd October 2009, 11:12   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esteem_lover View Post
Jaggu, how much would 10k matter in a car of 4 Lakhs ? That is not savings, the real savings is in the kmpl.
10k over 10,000 engines = 100,000,000/- doesnt it make sense?
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Old 6th April 2010, 07:17   #20
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Now Nissan Micra also joins the league.
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Old 6th April 2010, 08:19   #21
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@Sunil - Good article & nice to have you bumped up this thread. Anyday, I prefer one cylinder to 4 valve combination on 2/4/8 cylinders; sounds to me like a good balance; like you said there's no gap in the 4 cylinder configuration & there's always power stroke on any one of the cylinder at any point in time & I believe that makes the balance.
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Old 8th April 2010, 18:30   #22
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Well,

There are many aspects which are considered, before an engine
(which is a heart) for any automotive is considered.

1) The market segment
2) Application expected (City travel car, SUV, MUV etc)
3) Competitors


Example

A hatch back has some constraints like cost, space(overall dimensions), and finally amount of HP that defines the car as powered to perfection.


Where as

A premium luxury car would be to fill the car with a heart (Engine) to its brim which would fill the pleasure of driving irrespective of many constraints which may apply in other cases.



Now looking at the above scenarios company tend to come up with solutions

may be three cylinder which certainly would save material cost, space but at advent of imbalance (Companies try to remove the imbalance to a extend) due to three cylinders which would ultimately show up in the NVH.

As people have stated about some three cylinder engines feel of some roughness and the some harshness.


To sum up these things.

Three cylinder 800cc

Competitively priced however does have a roughness and harshness

Four cyclinder 800cc

Bit highly priced however has very good NVH (due to good balanced engine)
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Old 9th April 2010, 01:09   #23
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Default The higher the no. the better.

That's no comparo! A 4-cylinder would any day be better than 3-cylinder. No matter what the manufacturer tells about advancement and blah,blah,blah.... ( which is basically a bullcrap ), they do it JUST to cut costs and boost that all important "mileage kya hai?" If this not so then we wouldn't have supercars with V6, V8, V12 and W24 cylinders. We would have then had single cylinder Ferraris and Lambos.
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Old 15th April 2010, 15:52   #24
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Default Less part types

Another thought stuck me after reading this thread (thought nothing about the technical merits of one compared to other)

The most common engines are 1.2l and 1.6l engines. Now each cylinder in a 1.2l - 3 cylinder engine and a 1.6l - 4 cylinder engine is 400cc.

So the cylinder design for the two engines can be common. This may lead to less part types and hence less inventory, NRE, etc. .... and better cost savings for the manufacturer.
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Old 23rd June 2010, 07:53   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunil8089 View Post
Three Cylinder:
Maruti Zen (old)
.
The Zen was always a 4 cylinder one! ALWAYS sir.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pgsagar View Post
That's no comparo! A 4-cylinder would any day be better than 3-cylinder.

There is a lot more that goes into a vehicle design and manufacture than what meets our eye.

Some points I can think of are:

1. Marketability
2. Cost of Manufacture
3. Use of a common platform from the existing library [Almost all manufacturers do this]
4. The Target segment
5. Use of a engine available with a partner company [Suzuki - GM - Fiat - TATA Tieups etc]

Also, in a three cylinder engine, there is a Power Stroke every 120 degrees and in a 4 cylinder, there is a Power Stroke every 90 degrees.

Hence it appears that a 4 cylinder is always smoother than a 3 pod engine.

Changes in technology bring about a lot of good things.

About the potential loss of engine power when using AC - One would not feel it if the engine is BIG enough. It does not matter whether it is 3 or 4 or 12.

A little OT:

Are you guys aware that a small company in coimbatore has designed and developed a 7 cylinder 70cc rotary engine bike
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Old 23rd June 2010, 08:32   #26
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Quote:
pnredkar : So the cylinder design for the two engines can be common. This may lead to less part types and hence less inventory, NRE, etc. .... and better cost savings for the manufacturer.
That would be true if the cylinders were individual pieces joined together to make a 3 or 4 cylinder engine as required. And that is never the case. There's far more to an engine than the cylinder itself - and that's where the challenge lies. Not just the bore & stroke dimensions and the number of cylinders in the block.
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Old 27th June 2010, 03:55   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pnredkar View Post
...So the cylinder design for the two engines can be common.
I agree with you that having common cylinder design is beneficial. Let's say I have a 4-cylinder 1.6 L engine. If I want to create a smaller engine, the cheapest way is to cut off a cylinder with a minor redesign of other components. To create a new 1.2 L 4-cylinder engine, new combustion models, etc for the cylinders would be required and hence development costs would be very high. But my keeping the same cylinder design, cutting off a cylinder would give a quick fix.
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Old 27th June 2010, 11:26   #28
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Remember Maruti went the other was with the 1.16 litre engine of the Alto VX/Wagon R/ Estilo. They added a cylinder to the M800 3-pot.
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Old 27th June 2010, 15:37   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
Remember Maruti went the other was with the 1.16 litre engine of the Alto VX/Wagon R/ Estilo. They added a cylinder to the M800 3-pot.
Wikipedia says that Maruti developed that engine, I always thought that Suzuki already had that engine abroad. Can someone verify this?

Either which way, it corroborates my logic of not having to design new combustion chambers.
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Old 5th July 2010, 23:49   #30
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Yes, it appears from web excerpts that Maruti has indegeniously discovered the 4 cycle engine in India. According to Wikipedia, A-star is the newest version of Alto but I dont understand the technical connection shared between them.
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