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Old 13th October 2009, 22:06   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shan2nu View Post
I think the more negative you go wih the offset, higher the load exerted on the bearings. But ideally its best to have the bearings in line with the center of the wheel (or rather the weight center of the wheel).

This is prob like standing with your feet right undeneath your torso, then slowy moving them apart. As you move them apart, you feel more strain on your joints, ligaments and muscles even though the weight of your body remains identical.

Shan2nu

Sorry, I got the positive and negative mixed up . But both of us are making the same point: the center line of the wheel needs to be more towards the center of the car, rather than towards the street.
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Old 13th October 2009, 23:16   #17
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Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
replacing tyre and replacing wheel RIM is not same , While one may change tyre there is no justification to fit alloys of different PCD as in this case , How exactly they enhance safety ?
Hi Amit,

I think you didn't read my post carefully. I haven't deviated from the PCD recommended by the manufacturer. The PCD of my alloy wheels are 100.
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Old 13th October 2009, 23:19   #18
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Originally Posted by Shan2nu View Post
As long as you upgrade to a new alloy with the recomended wheel offset, it shouldn't affect the bearings.
Ok now if what you say is true, this could be a possible reason. I believe the offset of the stock rims are 38? The offset on my upgraded alloys are 43.
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Old 13th October 2009, 23:28   #19
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Originally Posted by Deeps View Post
Epic, please keep us posted on the solution to your problems. I am currently facing the bearing and the "tuck" sound from the left side in my Xeta (2006 - 56K km). I upgraded the tyres at 50K km to 185/60/R14 from stock 165/65/R13. But am sure the bearing noise had already appeared slightly before the change.

guys, I am waiting for the 60K km service to resolve this issue. Is this safe and recommended or should I get it treated urgently?
Hi Deeps,

Since you have upgraded the wheels from 13" to 14", please check if you have got the offset of the new rims right. As per the feedback in this thread, the issue seems to be due to the wrong/different offset.

However, I have also read in another thread that is ok to deviate from the original offset a bit without any issues. Now, which one is true is yet to be confirmed.

Gurus - Your urgent help required here!!
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Old 13th October 2009, 23:38   #20
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In addition to the humming sound due to the busted wheel bearings, I am also getting a wierd 'tak' sound every now and then when the clutch is released and car starts moving and sometimes even while turning the steering wheel. Ive noticed it only comes from the left wheel.
that seems like it could be the CV joints going as well, those generally make that "tak tak" sound when they go. If one side goes, i'd replace both sides just to be safe plus you will 100% need to do the wheel alignment after replacing those as well as the bearings, so get them to check all of those before you do the alignment and have to redo it once they replace some other part

Last edited by naughty001 : 13th October 2009 at 23:40.
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Old 13th October 2009, 23:41   #21
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Offset and its effects
Production cars are built with wheel offsets that minimize wheel-bearing load. In corners, excessive lateral tire loads add stress to wheel bearings. Altering offsets affect how much load each of the two wheel bearings see both in straight-line driving and during cornering. Production-based race cars like the CRX and Integra that run stickier tires and less positive offset, exhibit somewhat high-bearing loads. Thankfully, Honda wheel bearings are strong and few problems occur.

Improper wheel offsets can lead to a variety of problems ranging from poor handling characteristics to broken suspension components, like this Civic knuckle.Even suspension knuckles aren't immune from offset changes. Longtime Honda racer Sam Rothschild has suffered two complete knuckle failures on his CRX. Of course, he runs +35 offset wheels with sticky Toyo 225/50-15 RA-1 tires and a stiff suspension. The added leverage created by this offset causes a much larger bending moment in the knuckle, which over time led to a fatigue fracture on two different knuckles, but this is for a highly stressed race car and is a rather unlikely scenario when concerning the typical Honda street car. Regardless though, offset does do more than just fill or not fill the fenders-it affects handling, steering, traction, even the service life of otherwise unbreakable suspension components like knuckle assemblies. That should be more than enough reason for you to rethink that sick, fat lip, rear-wheel-drive-looking offset next time you go shopping for new shoes.


Source : Effects Of Bad Wheel Offset - Guide To Proper Honda Wheel Offset - Honda Tuning Magazine

Offset
Offset is the location of the flat mounting surface of a wheel relative to the wheel's centerline. Negative offset means the mounting surface is toward the center of the car, positive offset means it is toward the outside of the car, or the wheel is "pulled in" toward the center. Offset affects many things other than just whether the wheel has the appearance of "sticking out" past the fender. The wrong offset can cause rubbing problems when the suspension is compressed or the wheel is turned. Offset affects the steering geometry's scrub radius, possibly leading to problems with torque steer or self-centering characteristics. Offset also affects the suspension's motion ratio, which directly determines the effective spring and damper rates. Potentially, in a very heavily loaded vehicle, or with extreme changes in offsets, wheel bearing life can be affected, but this is more often talked about by truck people than by small car enthusiasts. It is very, very important that the proper offset wheels be used.



Source : Wheel Tech Guide - Tech - Sport Compact Car Magazine

Shan2nu

Last edited by Shan2nu : 13th October 2009 at 23:46.
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Old 13th October 2009, 23:57   #22
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Doesn't the UK spec Swift come with 15" wheels stock? While I do agree with most of the posts telling the chances of damage are present- thought at varying degrees of severity, the point in case is that most India-spec cars are under-tired compared to their international counterpart- and Epic, the thread-started- has done is merely meet the international rim size, and up-size from 185/60 profile (international) to 195.

BUT- the 195/60 is not the correct size for 185/60, is it? I am not sure if it is the correct up-size for the India-spec Swift, though.
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Old 14th October 2009, 00:09   #23
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Quote:
Doesn't the UK spec Swift come with 15" wheels stock? While I do agree with most of the posts telling the chances of damage are present- thought at varying degrees of severity, the point in case is that most India-spec cars are under-tired compared to their international counterpart- and Epic, the thread-started- has done is merely meet the international rim size, and up-size from 185/60 profile (international) to 195.

BUT- the 195/60 is not the correct size for 185/60, is it? I am not sure if it is the correct up-size for the India-spec Swift, though.
The problem is not with the size of the wheel but the offset of the wheel.

Shan2nu
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Old 14th October 2009, 11:45   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shan2nu View Post
The problem is not with the size of the wheel but the offset of the wheel.

Shan2nu
Yes probably. As stated earlier, please correct me if Im wrong, the offset of the stock rims on the Swift is 38. The offset of my OZs are 43. Will a mere 5mm difference bust wheel bearings?
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Old 8th December 2009, 11:11   #25
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Default Strange Sound - Wheel Bearings or brakes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Epic View Post
Hi guys,

I own a 2005 Swift Vxi Petrol and have already changed my wheel bearings twice in the four years. However, I noticed that the wheel bearings got busted only after I upgraded my wheels and tires.

The first time was in 2006 when I upgraded my stock rims to a +1. I fitted 15" X 6.5" OZ Racing Canova wheels with PCD 100 & Offset 43 shod with 195/60/R15 Goodyear Eagle F1 tires. After a month or so the wheel bearings were busted.

The second time was during my tire change in May 2009, where I got rid of the Goodyears and fitted the 205/55/R15 Yokohama S-Drives. The wheel bearings have got busted again and I will be giving the car tomorrow for an entire suspension check and service.

In addition to the humming sound due to the busted wheel bearings, I am also getting a wierd 'tak' sound every now and then when the clutch is released and car starts moving and sometimes even while turning the steering wheel. Ive noticed it only comes from the left wheel.

What are the reasons for wheel bearings to usually fail? Are there any ways to prevent it? Do you think that tire/wheel upgrades are the cause for the same?
Hi all,

I decided to drive to Mahabaleshwar for the week end in October itself & decided to get the car serviced & have the entire suspension checked & bearing changed once I am back. The drive to Mahabaleshwar was brilliant except for the irritating humming sound at high speeds. I left early morning & reached there by 12 noon & didnt use the car after that. It was rainy & foggy & weather was humid.

However, when I started to dive the next morning, I started getting a very audible grinding/scuffing sound from the left front wheel. It was more prominent & loud at lower speeds during breaking but still audible at higher speeds also. I was very concerned as I was beginning to think it was a braking issue as I was on the ghats. After a bit of running, the sound completly vanished. I concluded that it must have been a jammed caliper which had gotten free later. Reached Mumbai & made an appointment with Vitesse for a car service.

Now, here's the issue. Car was given a full service - clutch was serviced & set, front & rear bearings replaced, suspension serviced, brake pads & brake discs replaced as they were worn out & one brake disc warped. Car was absolutely silent and smooth and all fine. Now after sometime (a couple of days) Mumbai had a few showers of rain, the 'tak' sound & grinding/scruffing sound emerged again. The grinding/scruffing sound was way less audible than before but still irritating me. I again thought it was moisture but it exists till today.

I spoke to Vitesse & they told me that with lubricating the bushings, the 'tak' sound should go but will have to check about the grinding/scruffing sound. The funny part it, the grinding/scruffing sound comes & goes irregularly, i.e. sometimes its never there & at other times it is very prominently heard.

What could be the issue here?

Also, still not clear with what the offset of the Swift is.

Last edited by Epic : 8th December 2009 at 11:12.
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Old 8th December 2009, 11:38   #26
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Do you wade through water often? If so bearings going every 15-20K kms is normal. Though bearings are supposed to have rubber seals to protect against water, they are not 100% airtight, esp when water is upto the wheel center level.
Moreover, I have observed that many mechanics during bearing change do not follow the exact greasing technique, or use old grease.
I also suffered from 2 bearing failures, once at 15000kms in the indica, other at around 35000kms. Again I had to get them changed around 60-65K
Next time, when bearings failed, I had stopped going to TASC by then. It was around 87000kms on the odo.
The rear bearings were gone now. So during bearing change, I bought the mechanic a brand new tube of castrol grease, and then got the job done in front of me.
Basically, first you have to generously dip the bearings(SKF) in grease. Then the shaft has to be cleaned with sandpaper completly, not an iota of dirt should be there.
Then shaft is to be generously dipped in grease.
After that fit bearing and then take the seals, grease them completely, and then seal it all.
Even if slight amount of dust remains inside, and slight lack of sealing is there, bearings will go for a toss.

The humming sound you get is bearings, but the tak, it could be a cracked "axle".
go to an empty parking lot, give full lock to wheels, and drive, and see if you get tak tak tak
Infact a cracked axle will damage wheel bearings quickly.

Last edited by tsk1979 : 8th December 2009 at 11:40.
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Old 8th December 2009, 11:59   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Do you wade through water often? If so bearings going every 15-20K kms is normal. Though bearings are supposed to have rubber seals to protect against water, they are not 100% airtight, esp when water is upto the wheel center level.
Moreover, I have observed that many mechanics during bearing change do not follow the exact greasing technique, or use old grease.
I also suffered from 2 bearing failures, once at 15000kms in the indica, other at around 35000kms. Again I had to get them changed around 60-65K
Next time, when bearings failed, I had stopped going to TASC by then. It was around 87000kms on the odo.
The rear bearings were gone now. So during bearing change, I bought the mechanic a brand new tube of castrol grease, and then got the job done in front of me.
Basically, first you have to generously dip the bearings(SKF) in grease. Then the shaft has to be cleaned with sandpaper completly, not an iota of dirt should be there.
Then shaft is to be generously dipped in grease.
After that fit bearing and then take the seals, grease them completely, and then seal it all.
Even if slight amount of dust remains inside, and slight lack of sealing is there, bearings will go for a toss.

The humming sound you get is bearings, but the tak, it could be a cracked "axle".
go to an empty parking lot, give full lock to wheels, and drive, and see if you get tak tak tak
Infact a cracked axle will damage wheel bearings quickly.
Hi TSK,

The humming sound has gone as I have changed the bearings and the car is smooth. The 'tak' sound does not happen often & is not a continous sound but usually when I am turning the steering wheel when the car is stationary while parking & stuff. I have tried out the 'full wheel' lock test but there is no sound then.

But what about that slight grinding/scuffing sound that I keep getting every now & then especially during breaking at very low speeds?
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Old 8th December 2009, 12:31   #28
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Hmm does this sound come more often on wavy bumpy roads? If so, your wheels may be touching the arches on full suspension travel. Since you upsized, this may happpen.
A sure shot way to check this is to check for scruff marks on the inside of the wheel wells.
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Old 8th December 2009, 12:46   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Hmm does this sound come more often on wavy bumpy roads? If so, your wheels may be touching the arches on full suspension travel. Since you upsized, this may happpen.
A sure shot way to check this is to check for scruff marks on the inside of the wheel wells.
No TSK. It does not come on wavy or bumpy roads and I am dead sure the wheels are not touching the arches as this problem has only started after my trip to Mahabaleshwar on busted wheel bearings. At that time I was riding on rims 15" X 6.5", PCD 100 & Offset 43 which I have been using for the past 3 years with no issues shod with 195/60/R15 Goodyear Eagle F1 tires.

As mentioned this issue has started only after that trip and still continues even after my wheel bearing change & tire change. i am now running on the same rims but with 205/55/R15 Yokohama S-Drives.
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Old 8th December 2009, 15:22   #30
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hi Epic,

I don't see the need for premature bearing ware by upsizing. but a point to note , pls make sure that the bearings u buy are from a reputed brand like SKF etc.
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