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Old 23rd October 2011, 16:22   #136
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Default Re: Alto Issues

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Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
@JustCause: Mix of causes. Undertyred. More power. But (I feel) most importantly, significant change in weight distribution)
Are you sure about this ? The new K10 is an aluminum units and is really light weight, weighing in just 47kg dry. I am sure that weight is not much to cause a significant change. But it could be that the mount points have changed ( engine mounted further away from rear axle ). Not sure, but K10 is not a very heavy unit.

The biggest change is that the suspension is not stiffer as it has to be considering the power. There also could be a chance that the K10 can gain speed more than what the 1.1 did, so we feel that the car is not as good as the 1.1.
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Old 23rd October 2011, 20:00   #137
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Default Re: Alto Issues

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Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
Not my impression/ opinion.
I went to buy the 1.1. Got put off by the handling. Bought the M800 5 speed instead. Downgraded from a Zen.
The 1.1 revved as hard, but there is something about the 3 pots (both F8 and K10). These beg to be revved hard.
I was comparing the Alto800 and Alto1100. In fact the handling of these Altos.
T don't get the relation between M800 and the Alto here. I know that the M800 gives more steering feel compared to Alto.

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Originally Posted by swarnava.m View Post
About the clutch, I am still driving on the same clutch. The car is going to the workshop next week for servicing, as well as a little body work and replacement of the front strut assembly (both sides). Will take a final call about the clutch then.
Don't change the clutch if it is not slipping or there is shudder. Simply put think on the advise of the garage guy twice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vishwaschettri View Post
Also I find the 800cc 12 valve motor more refined and rev-happy than 1.1. Any thoughts on that.
The 1.1 Engine also have 4 valves per cylinder.

Last edited by rajeev k : 23rd October 2011 at 20:17.
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Old 23rd October 2011, 21:34   #138
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Default Re: Alto Issues

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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
Are you sure about this ? The new K10 is an aluminum units and is really light weight, weighing in just 47kg dry. I am sure that weight is not much to cause a significant change.
Was referring to the 1.1.
Regarding the K10
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offici...ml#post2011495
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post1997908 (Maruti plans to relaunch Alto with 1000cc K-series engine)
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post1998196 (Maruti plans to relaunch Alto with 1000cc K-series engine) !
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post1999639 (Maruti plans to relaunch Alto with 1000cc K-series engine)
and a couple of later posts.
Would still like the answer!


Quote:
Originally Posted by rajeev k View Post
I was comparing the Alto800 and Alto1100.
So was I.

T don't get the relation between M800 and the Alto here. I know that the M800 gives more steering feel compared to Alto.
That was comparing notes with Mr. Chettri. Not relevant to main discussion.
Regards
Sutripta

Last edited by Sutripta : 23rd October 2011 at 21:40.
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Old 23rd October 2011, 22:59   #139
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Default Re: Alto Issues

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Originally Posted by rajeev k View Post
The 1.1 Engine also have 4 valves per cylinder.
Yes but I find the 800cc F8D much more refined and revhappy. Both the engine rev good but the F8D really encourages you to rev it and enjoys it where as the 1.1 really sulks and makes mettalic whine when revved hard. Though both put excellent results. 1.1 also has creamy torque which is not the forte of 800cc F8D.
I read that 1.1 is an Indian maruti R&D effort by adding a cylinder to the 800cc block. Its crudeness might be come from that. That might also explain the dismissal fuel economy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
The 1.1 revved as hard, but there is something about the 3 pots (both F8 and K10). These beg to be revved hard. I oblige, and smile.
Sutripta
You said it. The 5 speed 800 with the F8D just begs to be revved. Handling is also much superior to 1.1 alto. I have put 13" esteem rims with 155/70 and now it handles like a gokart on rails. Need to improve brakes some how. It has clocked 2.5 lakh kms so far and still going strong.

My dad just did a 600 km drive from delhi to jodhpur nonstop in 10 hrs in it and the old bugger dint skip a beat even once.

Quote:
Originally Posted by swarnava.m View Post
I am not sure about the tyres as you have mentioned, as my car came factory fitted with 145x80 R12 tyres, but I am sure that going for an upsize will improve the handling immensely.

About the clutch, I am still driving on the same clutch. The car is going to the workshop next week for servicing, as well as a little body work and replacement of the front strut assembly (both sides). Will take a final call about the clutch then.

I wouldn't be too sure about that, as after driving the 800c alto, I feel it is very much underpowered (maybe because I am too used to the 1100).
Yes 1.1 always came with 145x80R12. Do upgrade to 155/70R13 on WagonR's rims on next tire change and you will like it. Improves handling and impact of speedo error is minimal. Ride height increases by ~5mm.

Clutch on 1.1 is more robust than alto 800 and should easily last 1lakh+ in hands of a good driver.

Ofcourse 800cc alto is under-powered to 1.1 alto but it wins hands down in handling and rev happy engine nature. When it comes to puttering around the city at 30kmph in 4th gear the 1.1 rules.


cheers

vishwas

Last edited by vishwaschettri : 23rd October 2011 at 23:00. Reason: Typo
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Old 23rd October 2011, 23:24   #140
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Default Re: Alto Issues

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Originally Posted by vishwaschettri View Post
Y
I read that 1.1 is an Indian maruti R&D effort by adding a cylinder to the 800cc block. Its crudeness might be come from that. That might also explain the dismissal fuel economy.
Well well well!! Now that would really explain so much. I always wondered, I hear so much about the excellent fuel economy of the Alto, and no matter how light-footed I try to be, no matter how much heat I endure and drive without the AC, the FE would never be up to the mark. This really clears it up.
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Old 23rd October 2011, 23:56   #141
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Default Re: Alto Issues

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Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
So was I.
The weight difference between Alto 800 and 1100 is only 20 Kgs and handling is way too identical.
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Old 24th October 2011, 00:25   #142
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Default Re: Alto Issues

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Originally Posted by rajeev k View Post
The weight difference between Alto 800 and 1100 is only 20 Kgs and handling is way too identical.
Well I have both in family and I differ to your point. 20kgs upfront and additional power is more than enough to upset the handling. 1.1 feels too nose heavy and is not as chuckable as the 800 alto. Since they share the same suspension parts I feel the front shockers find it tough in 1.1. Maruti should have stiffened the springs in 1.1 for additional load and power as they did for zenD

Quote:
Originally Posted by swarnava.m View Post
Well well well!! Now that would really explain so much. I always wondered, I hear so much about the excellent fuel economy of the Alto, and no matter how light-footed I try to be, no matter how much heat I endure and drive without the AC, the FE would never be up to the mark. This really clears it up.
I don't have any concrete info on this but 796/3*4=1061 where 796 is the cc of Alto800 with 3 cylinder and 1061 is cc of alto 1.1/wagonR etc with 4 cylinders. Also bore and strokes are identical. So I guess its just connecting the dots. Maybe others can share their views on this.
And yes 1.1 is a guzzler you can manage 20+ on highway on alto 800 and 25+ on 5speed 800 but my 1.1 does not crosses 16.

OT: Does anyone has alto 1.1 owners manual scanned copy. I will be very grateful if it can be shared here. I have lost mine and would like to have it back in the car.

cheers
vishwas
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Old 24th October 2011, 01:01   #143
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Default Re: Alto Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by vishwaschettri View Post
And yes 1.1 is a guzzler you can manage 20+ on highway on alto 800 and 25+ on 5speed 800 but my 1.1 does not crosses 16.

OT: Does anyone has alto 1.1 owners manual scanned copy. I will be very grateful if it can be shared here. I have lost mine and would like to have it back in the car.

cheers
vishwas
Exactly!! Thank God someone finally proves that my FE figures are not abnormal. This is really a load off my heart.

I have the manual, I shall scan it and share it with you. However, I will not be able to do it immediately as I am loaded with work at the moment and there are a lot of pages. However, I will definitely do it within the next few days. I hope that's fine with you.

PS. How do I post links if I have to share it? Just pasting the link here would be fine?
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Old 24th October 2011, 20:36   #144
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Default Re: Alto Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by vishwaschettri View Post
Well I have both in family and I differ to your point. 20kgs upfront and additional power is more than enough to upset the handling. 1.1 feels too nose heavy and is not as chuckable as the 800 alto. Since they share the same suspension parts I feel the front shockers find it tough in 1.1. Maruti should have stiffened the springs in 1.1 for additional load and power as they did for zenD
Agree with you totally. Even when not using the extra grunt of the 1.1, the overriding characteristic is one of (massive) understeer. In all fairness I cannot say what effect a tyre upgrade would have had on the 1.1. Another pointer is the very heavy steering (at city speeds) for the 1.1. I'm talking pre PS. Upgraded footwear would only have made it worse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rajeev k View Post
The weight difference between Alto 800 and 1100 is only 20 Kgs and handling is way too identical.
As I said before, my impression and opinion is different.
Is yours based on a A-B comparison, or the result of a thought process which leads to the conclusion 'and therefore they must be the same'?

Regards
Sutripta
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Old 24th October 2011, 20:51   #145
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Default Re: Alto Issues

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Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
As I said before, my impression and opinion is different. Is yours based on a A-B comparison, or the result of a thought process which leads to the conclusion 'and therefore they must be the same'?
I own and drive an Alto800 and an Alto1100.

Last edited by rajeev k : 24th October 2011 at 20:53.
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Old 24th October 2011, 20:57   #146
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Default Re: Alto Issues

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Originally Posted by rajeev k View Post
I own and drive an Alto800 and an Alto1100.
That's interesting.
If I'm ever in your neck of the woods, maybe we could drive both!

Regards
Sutripta
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Old 26th October 2011, 21:20   #147
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Default Re: Alto Issues

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Originally Posted by swarnava.m View Post
I have the manual, I shall scan it and share it with you. However, I will not be able to do it immediately as I am loaded with work at the moment and there are a lot of pages. However, I will definitely do it within the next few days. I hope that's fine with you.
PS. How do I post links if I have to share it? Just pasting the link here would be fine?
That did be great. Thanks a ton. You can upload it to usendit and post link. Do PM me the link as well incase it is not allowed here

Quote:
Originally Posted by rajeev k View Post
I own and drive an Alto800 and an Alto1100.
Hmmm... now I am speechless. What model do you have. Did maruti made any changes at a later date? Mine is dec 2003? Also IMHO two same car with same chasis/suspension but different kerb weight ought to handle different. I find these small hatchbacks handling different with increase of a single passenger.

Btw what is the kerb weight difference between A800 & A1.1?
cheers Vishwas
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Old 26th October 2011, 22:46   #148
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Default Re: Alto Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by vishwaschettri View Post
Hmmm... now I am speechless. What model do you have. Did maruti made any changes at a later date? Mine is dec 2003? Also IMHO two same car with same chasis/suspension but different kerb weight ought to handle different. I find these small hatchbacks handling different with increase of a single passenger. Btw what is the kerb weight difference between A800 & A1.1?
The difference is only 15kgs based on data available though I have posted it as 20 kg somewhwer in this thread earlier.
The Vx1.1 is 2000 Model which I purchased in 2009 (Thread - bought an AltoVx1.1)and did 23K in it and the 800 is Lxi which is a 2007 August one and has clocked 37K till date. The 1.1 has EPS as a later fitment, by the previous owner.

Last edited by rajeev k : 26th October 2011 at 22:49.
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Old 28th October 2011, 04:40   #149
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Default Re: Alto Issues

Hello!

Maybe somebody of you could help me.
I own an 2004 1.1 Alto with the f10d engine.
The car needs a new gasket and so it would make sense to exchange the timing belt also. I checked a few supplier of belts (Gates, Contitech, SKW...) and they mostly offer 2 different kits for that car. One with 88 and one with 106 teeth. In Europe the Alto was only sold with the 1.1 engine so only one of them could fit. Any help would be appreciated and also the correct order number of a manufacturer would help. Thank you!

Regards
Oetelaar
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Old 2nd November 2011, 16:53   #150
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Default Re: Alto Issues

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Originally Posted by swarnava.m View Post
Exactly!! Thank God someone finally proves that my FE figures are not abnormal. This is really a load off my heart.

I have the manual, I shall scan it and share it with you. However, I will not be able to do it immediately as I am loaded with work at the moment and there are a lot of pages. However, I will definitely do it within the next few days. I hope that's fine with you.

PS. How do I post links if I have to share it? Just pasting the link here would be fine?
I have a slight change of opinion. I drive Alto 1.1, Oct 2010 (Not K10) make, the ones just during the launch of K10 series. On highway I consistently get 21-22kmpl at speeds of 80kmph-100kmph. My last drive, one way clocked 390kms and consumed 17-18ltrs of fuel running 75% of the time without AC. Of total 390kms, 280kms were clocked with highway conditions.

Does anyone have figures of 2010 alto FE? 16kmpl seems to be quite low at highwaay conditions for alto.

-UB
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