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Old 7th December 2011, 17:29   #211
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Default Re: Alto Issues

Dear members,

This is about a gear and clutch issue I faced.

The car
I own a 2007 Alto LXI, which has currently done 63,500 kms. Had not faced any issues with it. I did a full service at 61,500 kms two months back.

The background
At around 62,000 kms, there was heavy rains in Chennai for two weeks, and I had to drive in heavy waters and grinding traffic for hours together (like ~3 hours at a time). During this two weeks, the clutch/gear usage was very high in the maddening traffic involving frequent gear changes, riding in first gear in bumber-to-bumber traffic.

The problem
One morning I started the car. When I tried to slot the gear stick it won't go in. It is like coming against a wall and there is not even a sense of gear gate. It won't engage any of the gears and when I tried reverse gear it gave the typical "kur-kur" sound. All of these are done with full clutch press. I switched off the engine and now I am able to engage any gear without problem, but not with the engine running. So I engaged first gear and started the engine and first time it gave a thump sound and in the second attempt it started. Thereafter the gears are working fine for about 1,000 kms now. However, the gear shifts are not smooth as before - they grate and slot only with some difficulty. I have not yet checked with service center. The car has always been serviced at MASS every 5,000 kms, once around 3-4 months. Further, I have noticed that after driving in water the clutch play increases, i.e., the car starts moving with even a hair-thin release of clutch; but, this behavior reduces after the car gets dry and clutch play returns to normal, i.e., engages at middle level.

I seek your help on what could be possible reasons for these. I will take it up with the service center next time I go for service which will be at around 66,500 kms. Further, let me know if it is safe to drive around now - I travel 50 kms everyday to commute to office and do not want a situation where the gears won't change or clutch won't engage in city traffic. I have searched the forum for this particular issue but could not find anything, hence I am posting here. Sorry for the long post and thank you for your help and time.

murillo
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Old 7th December 2011, 17:30   #212
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Talking Re: Alto Issues

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Originally Posted by JustCause View Post
Can anyone tell me whether the K10 & the 800cc Alto share the same set of wiper blades?


Meanwhile

I bought a single piece Maruti Genuine RHS internally adjustable mirror for my Alto. What I thought will be a boon on cold wintry mornings has turned into a nightmare. The mirror has very limited view & on top of that, it is smaller than the manual one provided as default. Driving in Delhi traffic became a nightmare with an uncountable number of "near-miss" situations.

Going to return it tomorrow(MRP-1650Rs.). Anyone interested in going for these for Alto, please avoid.
Had the same problem with my internal adjustable orvm . Less view than manual one . Then I learnt to adjust my seat(recline) to get the best view.U will get used to it , using it for 7 yrs . Beats opening glass to adjust both mirrors at all times even though I have power windows in front.
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Old 7th December 2011, 19:45   #213
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Default Re: Alto Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by murillo View Post
Dear members,

This is about a gear and clutch issue I faced.
.
.
.
There could be two problems

1. The clutch actuation mechanism may have got jammed.

2. Clutch nearly gone

In either case it is advisable to get the issue resolved at a competent garage. In case the clutch is gone, you will one day be stranded with a broken plate. It is better to be proactive.
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Old 8th December 2011, 13:34   #214
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Default Re: Alto Issues

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Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
Hi,
Just a thought.
Upsizing tyres: if the rolling diameter has increased too much, it will have these effects:-
A) Speedo will underread. So check calibration.
B) As it is 5th is cruising gear, not 'power' gear. There can be drastic fall in top speed in 5th if overall gearing is even slightly off. And the top speed is likely to vary with every gust of wind. Find out what your top speed is in 4th.

Rolling resistance of tyres will also change. But in which way is difficult to say offhand. So ignored.

110 is too slow. Should be ~150.

Regards
Sutripta
Well, the difference in speeds with the old tyre 145/70 r12 and the new tyre 155/65 r 13 is when the speedo shows 105kmph the actual speed is 110 kmph.

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Originally Posted by gpa View Post
sai_ace,

You can easily cruise at 130+ kmph in the 1.1 liter Alto. Personally, I have driven my friend's Alto 1.1 (it had covered 55k kms in 2007) and reached a top speed of ~145+ on open stretches of road. Since your car has covered 83k kms, a compression check would be a good place to start to see if there is indeed a problem. But before that check when you last serviced the car.

Check the usual culprits like the air filter, spark plugs before you do the compression test. It is unlikely that the car's engine will lose compression pressure at such low mileage if maintained properly. If you go to your MASS, they will do a compression check for you.

Cheers,
gpa
The rest of the parts - plugs, filter and all are fine as i have completed a service recently and all these were inspected, also the right hand side driveshaft was changed.

I believe I have to get the compression checked. also, once a mech told me that the head is weak - what does this exactly mean? Also, if my compression is weak how do i fix it? does the engien have to be taken apart?

Also, as I am thinking of going for Gas conversion should i do it now or keep it on hold till i get the compression issue fixed.?

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Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
^^I see that you have mounted the rear speakers on the OEM parcel tray. Do you face any issues/vibrations etc? Some people say we must use thicker after market trays, which I don't like. Mine are installed on the hatch door for this reason.
I earlier had my JBL GTO 937 on my rear hatch. These heavy speakers took a toll on my door and the struts have given up twice. Also I really couldn exploit the speakers as they jarred against the door heavily. Another issue was that the right speaker never sat properly as mine was the vxi with the rear wash wipe assembly in the hatch.

Presently I have them in a custom made boxes which has completely changed the character of these wonderful speakers. I lose very little boot space too.
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Old 8th December 2011, 13:46   #215
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Default Re: Alto Issues

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Originally Posted by sai_ace View Post
Presently I have them in a custom made boxes which has completely changed the character of these wonderful speakers. I lose very little boot space too.
Can you post a picture of this set-up?
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Old 8th December 2011, 18:44   #216
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Default Re: Alto Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by sai_ace View Post
Well, the difference in speeds with the old tyre 145/70 r12 and the new tyre 155/65 r 13 is when the speedo shows 105kmph the actual speed is 110 kmph.

I believe I have to get the compression checked. also, once a mech told me that the head is weak - what does this exactly mean? Also, if my compression is weak how do i fix it? does the engien have to be taken apart?

Also, as I am thinking of going for Gas conversion should i do it now or keep it on hold till i get the compression issue fixed.?
145/70R12, diameter is 20", while 155/65R13 diameter is 21", so you will have an error of 1/20=5%.

Head weak can have a lot of connotations
. Valve seats leaking
. Head slightly warped
. Oil/water passages corroded

Any way all these will result in lower compression, and the head will have to be taken out
. Machined if it is warped
. Valve seats ground
. Passages cleaned

Get every thing fixed, before adding gas kit. You may have to change the pistons as they would have worn out by now. All in all a pretty expensive engine overhaul. Think if it is worth spending this money and then add the cost of conversion. It may be financially more prudent to dispose off the car and get a new one with factory fitted CNG.
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Old 8th December 2011, 20:34   #217
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Default Re: Alto Issues

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Originally Posted by Aroy View Post
145/70R12, diameter is 20", while 155/65R13 diameter is 21", so you will have an error of 1/20=5%.
Can we assume the same error in calculation of FE too?
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Old 8th December 2011, 21:04   #218
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Default Re: Alto Issues

Here is an issue I have been facing lately. For a few weeks now, I am not very satisfied with the suspension. Over uneven terrain, (including even not-so-smooth roads), the car really rides with a lot of vibration, and there is a lot of rattle of loose parts inside the cabin. I showed this to the service adviser, and he told me to replace the front struts. I did, but that hasn't solved the problem. In fact, there is a distinct clicking noise that comes from the front when the car goes over rough surfaces. I am doubting worn out ball joints.

The new issue that I have noticed over the past two days is that the car jerks or vibrates distinctly, even while running over smooth terrain. The clicking noise isn't there, but the ride is in no way smooth. What I mean is, if I am driving in 3rd, 4th or 5th gear at constant 2k rpm, I am feel a distinct & regular periodic jerk coming from the car, say about twice every second (yes it's very rapid) and I feel it in my hands through the steering wheel, as well as from the floor through my left foot. Even the co-passenger notices this, and this is on a highway at constant speed of 50-60 kmph.

The ball joint (if that indeed is faulty) might very well be the culprit here also, but is there any other reason why this may be happening? The car has run 63k, and I don't think it has been decarbed yet (not sure, I am maintaining it only since a year now).

Any ideas or suggestions would be really helpful. Thank You.

Last edited by swarnava.m : 8th December 2011 at 21:10.
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Old 8th December 2011, 21:14   #219
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Default Re: Alto Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by sai_ace View Post
Well, the difference in speeds with the old tyre 145/70 r12 and the new tyre 155/65 r 13 is when the speedo shows 105kmph the actual speed is 110 kmph.
Hi,
If you open the engine, you are going to find wear everywhere. If not opened, it would possibly have run for quite a few more Kms. But once opened, you really have no option but a thorough (and expensive) job. So it is important to eliminate the simple to check items first.

Read all the plugs!
Clutch not slipping.
Air cleaner choked.
Cat choked.
Fuel OK.
Diagnostic scan of ECU.
Valve timing.
Do check out top speed in fourth.

Regards
Sutripta
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Old 9th December 2011, 05:19   #220
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Default Re: Alto Issues

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Originally Posted by anky View Post
They are called Art Leather here (not quite leather) tried to match my car's color (silver). Seats going strong for 7+ years.Had them custom made.
The design looks great - the colour is not really my taste but in red/black it would really like it! Custom made? In Germany that would have the same price as a new Alto.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
I agree! But I understand they allow a much higher speed limit (here it is 80KPH at most places, 120 in some). This, combined with better quality fuel and tuning, will result in a higher speed. Most of the national highways here have become toll roads now and are of good quality. Potholes on them will be rare too. But they allow all sorts of traffic - bicycles, scooters, autorickshaws, slow moving trucks - you name it. Add to that villagers suddenly darting across!

The problem is, all NHs have been upgraded and made toll roads, instead of laying new speedways. This leaves no choice for the vehicles mentioned but to use the NHs, so some of them are exempted from paying toll.



The Altos you get will definitely be of a better quality in general, but the engines will be the same. They will be tuned to their full capability for the western markets. All cars are tuned differently - I would say detuned- to suit the fuel and driving conditions here. For instance even Mercs and BMWs sold here will not produce the same BHP of their counterparts in Germany (or anywhere in the west). I think they are made to run with lower compression ratio. For instance the 1100 cc Alto VXi had ~65 BHP when it was sold here. It was discontinued long back since it was killing the Wagon R and Zen. We could buy only the 800 cc Alto since then, till the introduction of the K10 1000cc Alto recently. This version in top trim sells for ~ INR 375000.
You are of course right. In Germany there is no speed limit and to be honest I really hate it. 120-130kmph would be enough. We have to think green! And thatīs also the reason why I drive an Alto - it preserves our nature! I just had to check what a autorickshaw is.... kewl! Well you wonīt find any bicycles or persons on our Autobahnen - You have to drive at least 60kmph to drive there.
My Alto has 63BHP stated in the documents - a difference of 2BHP?
Best trim = best equipped / with all extras? That would be about 1000 EUR under the Alto 1.1 listprice for the basic edition here.
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Old 9th December 2011, 10:04   #221
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Default Re: Alto Issues

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Originally Posted by DeOetelaar View Post
Best trim = best equipped / with all extras?
Yes. It is called the Alto K10 VXi model. There is also a lower model, the Alto K10 Lxi. This will have the aircon and power steering only. Below that is the Alto Lxi (800 cc), also with A/c and PS. Then we have the Alto LX (800 cc) with only A/c and no PS. Last will be the basic Alto 800 with neither A/c nor PS. All these sell side by side with the latest European model Alto, which is badged as "A-Star" here!
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Old 9th December 2011, 17:15   #222
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Smile Re: Alto Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeOetelaar View Post
The design looks great - the colour is not really my taste but in red/black it would really like it! Custom made? In Germany that would have the same price as a new Alto.....
Custom made by my wife's cousins .The own the shop . Special treatment to me and in 2004 it cost me 3500 Rs . 100 Re is 1 GBP.Not a single tear in all these years . Also just wipe clean with wet cloth . My daughter when she was 1 yr old in 04 had peed on the seat too . Just washed with wet cloth and no problem till today .2004 to 2011. I.E. my car is silver hence the seat color .Rough match . If car was black then surely black/red combo like u said .

Last edited by n_aditya : 12th December 2011 at 15:11. Reason: quote tags fixed
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Old 11th December 2011, 06:06   #223
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Default Re: Alto Issues

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Yes. It is called the Alto K10 VXi model. There is also a lower model, the Alto K10 Lxi. This will have the aircon and power steering only. Below that is the Alto Lxi (800 cc), also with A/c and PS. Then we have the Alto LX (800 cc) with only A/c and no PS. Last will be the basic Alto 800 with neither A/c nor PS. All these sell side by side with the latest European model Alto, which is badged as "A-Star" here!
Yes, the Alto k10 got a nice facelift. Itīs a pity that we do not get it here.
And itīs funny that the new Alto (A-Star) has about the same price here as the old Alto. Alternatively I would buy the Nissan Pixo (also A-Star) which is a bit cheaper here. It interesting that nearly every Alto is equipped with AC. Here just the Comfort Edition does AC have but itīs expensive. I would like to have AC even we have very hot temperatures seldom. Is the AC reliable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by anky View Post
The design looks great - the colour is not really my taste but in red/black it would really like it! Custom made? In Germany that would have the same price as a new Alto.....

Custom made by my wife's cousins .The own the shop . Special treatment to me and in 2004 it cost me 3500 Rs . 100 Re is 1 GBP.Not a single tear in all these years . Also just wipe clean with wet cloth . My daughter when she was 1 yr old in 04 had peed on the seat too . Just washed with wet cloth and no problem till today .2004 to 2011. I.E. my car is silver hence the seat color .Rough match . If car was black then surely black/red combo like u said .
As I said before the design looks great! And I would also take your colour for 7000Rs.
Hehehehe.... Donīt you use nappys in India? I think all would be covered by a nappy first and if itīs not enough the rest would take the child seat. Primarily the car is an article of daily use and so I do not really care about how does it look. I remember that the Alto was first available in 3 different colours here. Red, black and silver. There was one seat design/colour which fits all 3 colours. No problem. Later it was available also in Blue and yellow I think.
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Old 11th December 2011, 16:03   #224
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Red face Re: Alto Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeOetelaar View Post
Yes, the Alto k10 got a nice facelift. Itīs a pity that we do not get it here.
And itīs funny that the new Alto (A-Star) has about the same price here as the old Alto. Alternatively I would buy the Nissan Pixo (also A-Star) which is a bit cheaper here. It interesting that nearly every Alto is equipped with AC. Here just the Comfort Edition does AC have but itīs expensive. I would like to have AC even we have very hot temperatures seldom. Is the AC reliable?



As I said before the design looks great! And I would also take your colour for 7000Rs.
Hehehehe.... Donīt you use nappys in India? I think all would be covered by a nappy first and if itīs not enough the rest would take the child seat. Primarily the car is an article of daily use and so I do not really care about how does it look. I remember that the Alto was first available in 3 different colours here. Red, black and silver. There was one seat design/colour which fits all 3 colours. No problem. Later it was available also in Blue and yellow I think.
The Ac is great and chills the car in a couple of minutes and even in the harshest of summers at around 35to 37 dec C cools the car in five to seven minutes . The car is available in 3 Trims . Std(no PS/AC) lx(AC no PS) and lxi(AC and PS). Also the lx and lxi came with heaters as standard . Never used them in mumbai though . Of Course we have nappys in india , the onlly time she dint wear one she peed in the car .
I also used the child seat to drop her to school everyday . Now not reqd regular seats are fine for her .

Last edited by anky : 11th December 2011 at 16:04.
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Old 11th December 2011, 18:04   #225
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Default Re: Alto Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeOetelaar View Post
Yes, the Alto k10 got a nice facelift. Itīs a pity that we do not get it here.
And itīs funny that the new Alto (A-Star) has about the same price here as the old Alto. Alternatively I would buy the Nissan Pixo (also A-Star) which is a bit cheaper here. It interesting that nearly every Alto is equipped with AC. Here just the Comfort Edition does AC have but itīs expensive. I would like to have AC even we have very hot temperatures seldom. Is the AC reliable?
AC is a must for our climate, very few cars will be bought without it. And yes, it is very effective and reliable. It saps the power of the 800 cc in lower RPMs, but does not affect the VX and K10 models so much.
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