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Old 7th January 2012, 02:33   #241
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Default Re: Alto Issues

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Originally Posted by im_srini View Post
Hi DeOetelaar, here's the cylinder head parts from the parts catalog & the removal procedure from the service manual.

You're welcome
Hi im_srini
The new gasket arrived today. Well one look and I noticed that itīs for the Suzuki 996cc k10a engine. Itīs for a Wagon R I found out.
I think they have an error in the database. The original part number from the scanned catalog page leads to this wrong one. Seems that Germany and Maruti is not the best combo. Well I will check the GB market. In past I had more luck there purchasing Maruti parts.


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One thought. Have you checked the cooling system - blocked radiator tubes, stuck thermostat and/or leaking pipes. This usually happens in cars which are quite old, as with time the water channels and passages accumulate rust/deposits, which in turn affects cooling. But that will not impact cold starting only long runs in warm weather.

If possible get the cylinder compression checked, both dry and after injecting a bit of oil. You may have sticking valves as the idling smoothens out once hot. This is how Engine Compression Testing

Amazon.com: KD Tools (KDT2428) Cylinder Compression Tester: Automotive
This and others shown are quite inexpensive so you may even buy one. I bought similar one thirty years back KD Tools 3305 - Universal Compression Tester Kit | SJDiscounttools.com
Hi,
The car has cold starting problems.
Thanks for the hint. I am very surprised that such a tool is not so expensive.
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Old 9th January 2012, 14:13   #242
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Unhappy Re: Alto Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeOetelaar View Post
Hi im_srini, the new gasket arrived today. Well one look and I noticed that itīs for the Suzuki 996cc k10a engine. Itīs for a Wagon R I found out. I think they have an error in the database. The original part number from the scanned catalog page leads to this wrong one. Seems that Germany and Maruti is not the best combo.
Hi DeOetelaar, I'm sorry you got the wrong head gasket ! Just this weekend I bought a MGP (Maruti-Genuine-Part) head gasket for the F10D Alto from an auto parts store near my home. I could not find any manufacturer logo or name on the head gasket. Will upload a couple of pics of the head gasket with the part code on it tonight.
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Old 10th January 2012, 11:20   #243
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Post Re: Alto Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeOetelaar View Post
Hi im_srini, the new gasket arrived today. Well one look and I noticed that itīs for the Suzuki 996cc k10a engine. Itīs for a Wagon R I found out. I think they have an error in the database. The original part number from the scanned catalog page leads to this wrong one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by im_srini View Post
Will upload a couple of pics of the head gasket with the part code on it tonight.
Hi DeOetelaar, here are the pics of both sides of the head gasket... The head gasket part code mentioned in this post (Alto Issues) appears to be correct since it matches the part code on the head gasket I just got. The only other code I could find on the head gasket was "B12L1" on the top side of the gasket.

Name:  Alto_F10D_HeadGasket.JPG
Views: 1810
Size:  376.9 KB
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Old 10th January 2012, 15:32   #244
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Default Re: Alto Issues

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Originally Posted by im_srini View Post
Hi DeOetelaar, here are the pics of both sides of the head gasket... The head gasket part code mentioned in this post (Alto Issues) appears to be correct since it matches the part code on the head gasket I just got. The only other code I could find on the head gasket was "B12L1" on the top side of the gasket.
Hi im_srini,
You got it from a Maruti parts shop? I guess there are a few thousands in India. Well here "What is Maruti?" would be good for the last question in "Who Wants to Be a Millionaire" (Kaun Banega Crorepati). Maybe they would lose all lifelines..
For me itīs just important that the part number is the same and your great scan provide that. Thank you! The gasket I got is from Ajusa. Ajusa do not offer any gasket for the f10d engine in their catalog. And the Maruti number leads to the part from Ajusa.
The strange thing is that the gasket I got looks exactly like your scan! Every hole is the same. I canīt check the size but this is very amazing.
I try to scan or take a picture this evening. Does every Cylinder Head Gasket look like each other or does a k10a gasket also fit on a f10d? To be honesty I donīt want to try it. Meanwhile I found another supplier who offers the whole set. Maybe this will be a success.
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Old 10th January 2012, 21:04   #245
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Default Re: Alto Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeOetelaar View Post
Does every Cylinder Head Gasket look like each other or does a k10a gasket also fit on a f10d?
The K10 is a 3 cylinder!

Quote:
The strange thing is that the gasket I got looks exactly like your scan! Every hole is the same. I canīt check the size but this is very amazing.
I try to scan or take a picture this evening.
So I think you have the right gasket!

Regards
Sutripta
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Old 11th January 2012, 01:02   #246
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Default Re: Alto Issues

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Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
The K10 is a 3 cylinder!

So I think you have the right gasket!

Regards
Sutripta
Hi Sutripta,
Are you sure? There are a few K10 engines. k10a is a 4 cylinder.
The AStar with K10b has 3 cylinder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by im_srini View Post
Hi DeOetelaar, here are the pics of both sides of the head gasket... The head gasket part code mentioned in this post (Alto Issues) appears to be correct since it matches the part code on the head gasket I just got. The only other code I could find on the head gasket was "B12L1" on the top side of the gasket.
Hi!
I took a photo of the gasket I receive. I hope itīs ok due to the flashlight I had to use. I think it looks similar to the original Maruti part. You can see the "k10a" and "996". What do you think?
Meanwhile I checked the catalog from Ajusa again and think that I found the error. There are 2 cars (Alto 16v and WagonR+ 16v) with k10a engine in the catalog but different pictures of gaskets are showed.
Attached Thumbnails
Alto Issues-gasket.jpg  

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Old 11th January 2012, 09:38   #247
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Default Re: Alto Issues

I think that K10 engines are three cylinder and K12 are four cylinder. The older Alto 1.1 has a four cylinder engine.

In case you are willing to try, open the head up, and match the new gasket to the old one. Head gaskets are not all that high tech. They are just packing material, normally of asbestos (or equivalent compound now days) with a copper facing to facilitate sealing the gaps between the head and the block. Many mechanics in India, still make gaskets out of generic material, by tapping around the holes with a small spanner/hammer, and it works. As long as all the holes match, there should be no problem.
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Old 11th January 2012, 12:25   #248
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Question Re: Alto Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
The K10 is a 3 cylinder !
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aroy View Post
I think that K10 engines are three cylinder and K12 are four cylinder. The older Alto 1.1 has a four cylinder engine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeOetelaar View Post
There are a few K10 engines. k10a is a 4 cylinder. The AStar with K10b has 3 cylinder.
DeOetelaar is right, according to this page the K10A engine is a 4-cylinder engine with 68.0 x 68.6 mm bore/stroke & a displacement of 996 cc. The K10B used here is a 3-cylinder engine with 73.0 x 79.5 mm bore/stroke & a displacement of 998 cc. The F10D engine is a 4-cylinder engine with 68.5 x 72.0 mm bore/stroke & a displacement of 1,061 cc...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeOetelaar View Post
I took a photo of the gasket I receive. I think it looks similar to the original Maruti part. You can see the "k10a" and "996". What do you think?
The gasket you've got is remarkably similar to the F10D gasket & appears to match it hole for hole ! Will try to post a pic of the F10D gasket with a measurement scale of some kind next to it.

Aroy, can a head gasket meant for an aluminum block (K10A) be used on an iron block (F10D) ?

Last edited by im_srini : 11th January 2012 at 12:28.
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Old 11th January 2012, 16:09   #249
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Default Re: Alto Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by im_srini View Post
Aroy, can a head gasket meant for an aluminum block (K10A) be used on an iron block (F10D) ?
Should be.

The gasket ensures tight seal between head and the block, so there should be no difference. The only difference I can think of is that you can over tighten the cast iron block, but not the aluminum block, hence the gasket for aluminum block will have better thickness tolerance. I do not know if copper and aluminum react, if they do, then the gasket meant for aluminum will not have a copper face.

All that you have to ensure is that the gasket is of correct thickness, else it may increase/decrease the swept volume slightly.

Regarding the studs. Technically high tensile studs are supposed to deform slightly at specified torque (so that they do not work loose), so should not be reused. But practically, in normal cases it does not matter, as long as you tighten them to the correct torque. With aluminum blocks over torque will strip the threads, while under torque will keep them loose.
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Old 11th January 2012, 21:07   #250
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Default Re: Alto Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeOetelaar View Post
Hi Sutripta,
Are you sure? There are a few K10 engines. k10a is a 4 cylinder.
The AStar with K10b has 3 cylinder.
Hi,
A bit of Googling shows that you are right!
The K10 being a 3 pot 1000 cc is so ingrained in our brains that the idea of a 4 pot K10 did not even enter my mind.
OT The 4 pot 1000cc K should be a real screamer. Wonder if one can lay ones hand on one!

Quote:
Originally Posted by im_srini View Post
The gasket you've got is remarkably similar to the F10D gasket & appears to match it hole for hole ! Will try to post a pic of the F10D gasket with a measurement scale of some kind next to it.
I think DeOetelaar has got the correct gasket. The chances of the K10a and F10d having identical (physical dimension wise) head gaskets is, I would think, 0.
I guess K10a head gasket will be similar to (if not identical to) that of the K12. Can anyone post a picture of that? Never seen one.

Regards
Sutripta
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Old 11th January 2012, 21:16   #251
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Default Re: Alto Issues

K10 is a three pot and the same engine does duty in the latest WagonRs and Estilos in India. The gasket picture is for a four cylinder engine and hence could be for the K10a and may not be replaceable for a F10B engine.
K10A is a 996 cc engine where as F10D is 1061 and as sreeni said a 0.5mm bore difference and hence sourcing the right gasket is the thing for Deoetalaar.

Last edited by rajeev k : 11th January 2012 at 21:23.
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Old 12th January 2012, 02:21   #252
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Default Re: Alto Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
OT The 4 pot 1000cc K should be a real screamer. Wonder if one can lay ones hand on one!
The k10a is turbocharged I noticed. Seems to be a racing machine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
I guess K10a head gasket will be similar to (if not identical to) that of the K12. Can anyone post a picture of that? Never seen one.
Well I have attached a part from the Ajusa catalog I found in the web. There are also pictures of the different gaskets. Related to the catalog there are 2 different gaskets for the k10a which is not possible. So one is labeled wrong. I guess itīs the one I have. Do you agree?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
I think DeOetelaar has got the correct gasket. The chances of the K10a and F10d having identical (physical dimension wise) head gaskets is, I would think, 0.
Quote:
Originally Posted by im_srini View Post
The gasket you've got is remarkably similar to the F10D gasket & appears to match it hole for hole !
Yes, seems that the assumption is right that my gasket is correct. Check the attachment.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf SUZUKI.pdf (115.1 KB, 216 views)
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Old 12th January 2012, 14:02   #253
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Post Re: Alto Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeOetelaar View Post
Well I have attached a part from the Ajusa catalog I found in the web. There are also pictures of the different gaskets. Related to the catalog there are 2 different gaskets for the k10a which is not possible. So one is labeled wrong. I guess itīs the one I have. Do you agree ? Check the attachment.
Hi DeOetelaar, true, the Ajusa catalog mentions 2 head-gaskets for the K10A, however this page mentions 2 versions of the K10A engine - a naturally aspirated version with ~67 Bhp & a turbo-charged version with ~100 Bhp. These numbers appear to match the Bhp numbers mentioned against the 2 K10A head-gaskets in the Ajusa catalog.

Coming back to the F10D head-gasket I have here, its width is 32.5 cms long & its height is 13.2 cms. Here are a few pics of the head gasket along with a measuring scale.

Alto Issues-alto_f10d_headgasket_0.jpg

Alto Issues-alto_f10d_headgasket_1.jpg

Alto Issues-alto_f10d_headgasket_2.jpg

Alto Issues-alto_f10d_headgasket_3.jpg

Alto Issues-alto_f10d_headgasket_4.jpg

Hoping these pics will clear the confusion...
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Old 12th January 2012, 21:19   #254
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Default Re: Alto Issues

[quote=DeOetelaar;2643104
Well I have attached a part from the Ajusa catalog I found in the web. There are also pictures of the different gaskets. Related to the catalog there are 2 different gaskets for the k10a which is not possible. So one is labeled wrong. I guess itīs the one I have. Do you agree?
[/QUOTE]
Hi,
I think you have the right gasket. Do check against Srini's pictures though. And drop a line to the manufacturers about the mislabeling.

Regards
Sutripta
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Old 12th January 2012, 22:20   #255
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Question Re: Slow oil leak

My Alto has been leaking oil from the drain nut area. I have been observing this from mid-December. The oil leak is gradual with no stains formed overnight if I place a paper underneath. I cleaned the sump area in the 2nd week of December and it was clean till I observed it today morning. I could gather a drop of oil on my finger.

I cleaned the area again & there was no further leakage when I checked in the afternoon. I also took it to a neighborhood garage & the mechanic said that the washer of the drain plug is gone & the engine oil will become useless if I intend to replace the washer. The oil level (dipstick) as of now is 3mm below the max mark.
Alto Issues-1201201208d6.jpg
Alto Issues-120dd12012087.jpg


I currently have Mobil1 synthetic oil filled & my service is due in June 2012. Would it be advisable to wait till service or should I get the washer & the oil changed prematurely?

Last edited by JustCause : 12th January 2012 at 22:22.
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