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Old 8th July 2012, 19:28   #346
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Default Re: Alto Issues

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last time I went for a tank up, I asked him to stop at auto cut off, and he was surprised that I did not let him fill to the brim.
swarnava.m, since you are now using the auto cut off method, could you please report back on two topics that have been discussed here:

a) The behaviour of your fuel gauge. For e.g. does it start falling sooner than what you experienced earlier while using the brim-to-brim method.

Note - In my experience, whenever auto cut off failed and I instructed the pump attendant to manually switch off the flow as described in my previous post, the fuel gauge needle went above the 'Full' mark and it obviously took longer for it to drop down - similar to what Gansan experienced. It is a rare nozzle that has been able to fill and stop the flow at a point where the fuel gauge needle hovered directly over the 'F' mark when I turned on the Ignition. I consider this point (needle over F mark) as as having reached the max capacity, assuming of course the gauge is accurate.

I fill petrol at only 2-3 petrol stations in Pune city - the 1st choice being the BP Co. Owned and Operated station near the Pune RTO (for benefit of Pune based TBHPians). Unfortunately Shell fuel which is 1st choice is hard to find and I would have to drive to the outskirts to get it.

b) Any impact on fuel efficiency calculations whilst using the auto cut off method, assuming you have used the same nozzle at the same petrol pump for this purpose. Auto cut off should ordinarily lead to no excess fuel being drained thru the overflow tube.
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Old 8th July 2012, 22:31   #347
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Default Re: Alto Issues

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swarnava.m, since you are now using the auto cut off method, could you please report back on two topics that have been discussed here:
Sure.

a) Yes, since the last tank up, the needle does come down sooner than earlier. However, not by a big margin. As you have mentioned, previously when I was filling upto the brim, the needle would go well over the 'F' mark, and started falling after 60-70 km. Around 100, it would be above 'F' or just slightly over it.

This time, it did go over the 'F' mark when I filled up, but not as much as it used to previously. It started falling sooner as well, and at 80 km it was already at 'F'. Now at around 115, it is already below the 'F' mark slightly. Will observe more of this behavior in this week, and will report back.

b) This, I don't know yet, since I have driven around 115 km only, and I refill somewhere around 400. Previously, I was constantly getting between 14 and 15, have to see what it turns out to be next time around. Will post it here.

Last edited by swarnava.m : 8th July 2012 at 22:32.
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Old 13th July 2012, 23:17   #348
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Default Re: Alto Issues

Of late, (especially since monsoon started), I have observed a strange occurrence. Each time the car lies unused for a couple of days, next time when I start it (which is always around 8 in the morning), the car is sluggish for the first couple of metres. I will try to explain in a little detail here.

The car is parked in a spot off the driveway, so I need to reverse out into the driveway, turning the steering wheel to the left all the way right when I start reversing. At this point, it seems like the brakes are applied, or handbrake in engaged, or someone is trying to block the movement of the car with a lot of force. I have disengaged the handbrake and am trying to engage the clutch while in reverse. The car moves, but its like its moving against a lot of force. Then, within a metre or two, there is a loud noise.

This noise is like a thud, but not as low as a thud. It is of slightly more pitch (am sure that does not explain it correctly). Something similar to if a metal is dented by applying force by hand, and then the hand is suddenly taken off. The sound that the metal would make as it immediately shapes back into the original. This sound is similar to that.

It makes me feel that it has got to do something with the brakes, like the brakes had been jammed, and have suddenly become free and alright. After this, the car behaves perfectly normal. Reverses into the driveway, and then I shift into 1st, and release the clutch, and she drives just like she should.

However, if the car has been driven the previous evening, then this does not happen.

Any pointers? Something minor or should I be worried??
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Old 15th July 2012, 07:48   #349
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Default Re: Alto Issues

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Originally Posted by swarnava.m View Post
Of late, (especially since monsoon started), I have observed a strange occurrence...
Does the rear end lift up when you reverse?

Try reversing without any accelerator input, only clutch to check for this. This could be a momentary rear drum brake jam that usually occurs in this season. Another way is to place two newspapers/plastic sheet on the ground & park such that your rear wheels are on them. Then, when you reverse, if you see them being torn, then your rear brakes are binding.
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Old 15th July 2012, 09:04   #350
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Default Re: Alto Issues

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Does the rear end lift up when you reverse?
It probably does. Certainly feels like that. Next time I shall ask someone to observe.

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Originally Posted by JustCause View Post
Try reversing without any accelerator input, only clutch to check for this. This could be a momentary rear drum brake jam that usually occurs in this season. Another way is to place two newspapers/plastic sheet on the ground & park such that your rear wheels are on them. Then, when you reverse, if you see them being torn, then your rear brakes are binding.
I have tried reversing without accelerator input. The phenomenon is the same. I also believe it is a rear drum brake jam.

I shall try the newspaper method and report the results.
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Old 15th July 2012, 10:56   #351
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Default Re: Alto Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by swarnava.m View Post
Of late, (especially since monsoon started), I have observed a strange occurrence. Each time the car lies unused for a couple of days, next time when I start it (which is always around 8 in the morning), the car is sluggish for the first couple of metres. I will try to explain in a little detail here.
This is a common problem with brakes during monsoons. The water and mud can get in and cause jamming.
The remedy is to pump the brakes before parking after a drive through slushy monsoon water and try slow down to a very less speed and try to stop without applying brakes. Don't pull handbrakes also while parked.
Needless to mention, brakes require cleaning too.
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Old 15th July 2012, 12:01   #352
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Default Re: Alto Issues

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Originally Posted by swarnava.m View Post
It makes me feel that it has got to do something with the brakes, like the brakes had been jammed, and have suddenly become free and alright. After this, the car behaves perfectly normal. Reverses into the driveway, and then I shift into 1st, and release the clutch, and she drives just like she should.

Any pointers? Something minor or should I be worried??
Classic signs of brakes sticking in rains or after a car wash. It is not serious as long as the brakes release fully. Do get the following checked:

a) Parking brake lever and cable lubrication - this might solve the problem entirely

b) Secondary inspection - If the brakes haven't been serviced in a long time, please have the brake actuators (hyd. actuators) and brake shoes checked. The drum needs to be pulled off for this service. This isn't terribly complicated provided the mechanic uses the right tools including a drum puller.

I am not sure how old your car is but do keep in mind that brake fluid needs replacement every 2-4 years depending on ambient conditions (specially humidity levels) and mileage.
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Old 15th July 2012, 13:29   #353
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Default Re: Alto Issues

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Originally Posted by swarnava.m View Post
Any pointers? Something minor or should I be worried?
As R2D2 has mentioned, this is a sign of jammed rear drum brakes. You should clean the drum brakes at every 10-20k kms intervals as brake dust accumulates (with use) inside the drums which when mixed with water can enter the brake cylinders and actuators and cause jamming.
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Old 15th July 2012, 14:21   #354
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Default Re: Alto Issues

The brakes may be jamming on reverse. Why not park the car after reversing so you can move straight in forward motion. That will give them time to unbind.

Needless to say. get the brakes serviced and the drums cleaned, and the hand brake cable lubricated.
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Old 15th July 2012, 15:21   #355
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Default Re: Alto Issues

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Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
Classic signs of brakes sticking in rains or after a car wash...If the brakes haven't been serviced in a long time, please have the brake actuators (hyd. actuators) and brake shoes checked...
Quote:
Originally Posted by gpa View Post
As R2D2 has mentioned, this is a sign of jammed rear drum brakes. You should clean the drum brakes at every 10-20k kms intervals as brake dust accumulates (with use) inside the drums which when mixed with water can enter the brake cylinders and actuators and cause jamming.
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Originally Posted by Aroy View Post
The brakes may be jamming on reverse. Why not park the car after reversing so you can move straight in forward motion. That will give them time to unbind.

Needless to say. get the brakes serviced and the drums cleaned, and the hand brake cable lubricated.
Thank you for all your suggestions and advice. However, the surprising thing is that exactly a month ago, the car was serviced. Current running is 69k, and the car will soon be 9 years old.

During the service, the brakes were cleaned, brake lines were bled and drained, then fresh brake fluid was filled up. Hence I don't understand how it is possible that the brakes need cleaning. Is there a possibility that the technician made some mistake while carrying out the procedure, which is causing this issue?

PS. As Aroy suggested, I will park it in reverse the next time when I am going to leave it for two days, so that I can move out forward when starting again. I will post the observations then. Thanks.
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Old 15th July 2012, 15:31   #356
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Default Re: Alto Issues

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During the service, the brakes were cleaned, brake lines were bled and drained, then fresh brake fluid was filled up. Hence I don't understand how it is possible that the brakes need cleaning.
Check your bill and see if it was only the front brakes that were cleaned. Rear drum brake cleaning is usually done separately at M.A.S.S and will be billed as a separate component in the labor charges. I make a specific mention at every 10k service interval to clean the rear drum brakes for which M.A.S.S charges Rs 200 as labor.
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Old 15th July 2012, 15:34   #357
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Default Re: Alto Issues

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Originally Posted by swarnava.m View Post
Is there a possibility that the technician made some mistake while carrying out the procedure, which is causing this issue?

PS. As Aroy suggested, I will park it in reverse the next time when I am going to leave it for two days, so that I can move out forward when starting again. I will post the observations then. Thanks.
As it went thru a paid maintenance schedule, please have the technician check the parking brake lever and cable for lubing.

One more thing - is your car washed daily and is the person also cleaning the wheels as is normally done in the rainy season? If yes, water enters the drum and causes a light coating of rust which causes the shoes to stick till the rust is quite literally scraped off when the car is in motion. This is perfectly normal..don't worry about it.

PS - just noticed you are from Margao. Heavy rain and humidity in coastal areas can also cause the inside of brake drums, mostly made of cast iron, to rust.

Last edited by R2D2 : 15th July 2012 at 15:41. Reason: Added ps
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Old 15th July 2012, 19:25   #358
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Default Re: Alto Issues

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Originally Posted by gpa View Post
Check your bill and see if it was only the front brakes that were cleaned. Rear drum brake cleaning is usually done separately at M.A.S.S and will be billed as a separate component in the labor charges. I make a specific mention at every 10k service interval to clean the rear drum brakes for which M.A.S.S charges Rs 200 as labor.
I know that the rear brakes were done, since I make it a point to wait at the workshop and supervise the work done each time my car goes for service. So that is clearly ruled out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
As it went thru a paid maintenance schedule, please have the technician check the parking brake lever and cable for lubing.

One more thing - is your car washed daily and is the person also cleaning the wheels as is normally done in the rainy season? If yes, water enters the drum and causes a light coating of rust which causes the shoes to stick till the rust is quite literally scraped off when the car is in motion. This is perfectly normal..don't worry about it.

PS - just noticed you are from Margao. Heavy rain and humidity in coastal areas can also cause the inside of brake drums, mostly made of cast iron, to rust.
I'll definitely get the parking lever and cable lubricated. Do I need to visit MASS or can the roadside local garage do it?

The car is washed once a week, and yes, the person washing it does wash the wheels normally as well. However, if this is causing the issue, it is strange, since he washed the our i10 also, and that vehicle has no issues.

As for rust caused due to humidity in coastal regions, is it the same as what you mentioned previously, as in the rust that is scraped off when the car moves?
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Old 15th July 2012, 19:55   #359
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Default Re: Alto Issues

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Originally Posted by swarnava.m View Post
I'll definitely get the parking lever and cable lubricated. Do I need to visit MASS or can the roadside local garage do it?
Here I assume that the brakes were adjusted properly by the Auth SC during the service and there is no brake drag or any abnormal behavior whatsover. If yes, a roadside garage can do this task. It is pretty simple.

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Originally Posted by swarnava.m View Post
The car is washed once a week, and yes, the person washing it does wash the wheels normally as well. However, if this is causing the issue, it is strange, since he washed the our i10 also, and that vehicle has no issues.
Brake drums and discs rust when water is poured on them (during a wash) and in rains. Reason? Nearly all normal cars (not exotics and high end cars please) have discs/drums made of cast iron and this is perfectly normal.

Quote:
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As for rust caused due to humidity in coastal regions, is it the same as what you mentioned previously, as in the rust that is scraped off when the car moves?
Yups, rust is scraped off. Don't worry.
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Old 23rd July 2012, 15:54   #360
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Default Re: Alto Issues

I recently got some work done on the AC. I actually got the condenser replaced since the car was not cooling at all. Since then I have noticed 2 issues.

1. The mileage has dropped to below 14kmpl. I used to get between 15 and 16 earlier. I drive almost always with the AC on.
2. When the AC is on and the car is idling at a traffic signals, the compressor switches on (which is usual) but of late what is happening is it switches on and then off immediately, then on again and so on. (I hope I am using the right words 'compressor on'!).

Can someone suggest what could be wrong?

My car has done 32500 kms so far and I always use the tank full to tank full method to measure mileage. I also use the same petrol bunk every time.

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