Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Technical Stuff


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 2nd October 2011, 18:46   #91
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Delhi
Posts: 2,025
Thanked: 896 Times
Default Re: Alto Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by SupratikDebnath View Post
Hi!

I am a newbie to both Team BHP and driving. I have an Alto LX (2003 make). It was purchased, pre-worshipped in 2009. However regular usage started since Feb 2011 (I was out of town before that). The car has clocked 29845 kms on the odometer. Even the previous owner was not a prolific user.

Now I use it regularly for my office commute which is 45 kms bothways.
I have been regular with the servicing since I took her up, after my return.

Things were going smooth, until around couple of months back, I felt the car vibrating as a whole sometimes and then comes to normalcy after sometime. During these fits, the car would become sluggish to the accelerator input. I used to feel as if it is out of my control. I was never able to figure out the issue and was neither re-create it at will. It was random!

Got the service guys check it thoroughly and they replaced the brake pads and the suspension was re-worked (damage due to corrosion).
Since then the vibration is minimal, but now I am able to recreate it.

Lets say I run the car for around 10-15 kms and shutdown the engine for sometime (say waiting for my buddy). Then when I crank it up again, that vibration and unruly behavior creeps again. I pullover to the side-bed and after 5-6 secs the vibration ceases and the car is back to normal behavior.

It never happens on a cold-start!

I find this utterly strange and thought you might be able to help me figure the issue.

Due to the humidity levels in Kolkata, it is pretty difficult to fight corrosion and I am having a tough time dealing with it.

Some other details which might be helpful:
Highway mileage - 18-20 kmpl (tankful to tankful)
City mileage - 16-17 kmpl (tankful to tankful)

I am a sedate driver. I prefer the hooligans to do their monkey business away from my car. I never floor the A pedal. Keep tire pressures at the recommended level. I have a "I Drive Safe" sticker posted to the bum of my chum (car)!

Thanks for your help and guidance. :-)
Looks like you are having petrol starvation. Still there can be a lot of reasons. Here are a few in the order of probability (hence the order to be checked for)

. Soft engine mountings. In 8 years the, the rubber could have gone soft. In morning it would be hard, but soften up once the engine is hot. This will not manifest itself but increase the vibration amplitude tremendously.

. The petrol tank vent may be choked, hence there is petrol starvation after running for some time. Clean the vent.

. If you car has a carburetor, get the carburetor cleaned and the jets checked. Chances are that either there is dust accumulated or the jets have choked. Change the jets if they are not upto the specification.

. The petrol tank may have a lot of rust and dust accumulated. If you are driving with low levels of petrol in the tank, you may be getting petrol starvation due to dust clogging the jets. Check the petrol filter. I remember that when I had the M800, the filter would be changed every service. If the petrol is bad, and you drive only short stints, then chances are that the petrol filter is clogged. Check it every 5K km, and change if it looks dirty.

. The timing belt may be at the end of life, if it has never been changed, check and replace if necessary.

. Check the fan belt and if there is AC the AC belt. Though the symptoms do not point that way, it is better to replace the belts and rubber hoses every 5 years, as they deteriorate with time.
Aroy is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 2nd October 2011, 21:25   #92
Senior - BHPian
 
Gansan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Chennai
Posts: 3,393
Thanked: 841 Times
Default Re: Alto Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by SupratikDebnath View Post
Thanks for your help and guidance. :-)
Have the engine beds checked. I had some similar vibrations in my new Alto after six months of usage. Tappet noise was suspected, then belt tightness and later the radiator fan mounting. Finally it was narrowed down to the centre engine bed and it was replaced under warranty. Immediately the problem disappeared.

When you notice this problem ask someone to sit inside the car, leave the engine on, open the bonnet and hold the left/right side engine bed tightly. If the person inside says the vibrations reduce/stop, there is your problem. Replacement beds don't cost much - just about Rs 300 or so each. In fact the labour may cost more than the bed.

Edit: Watch out for the radiator fan while you do this! It may start suddenly anytime. Don't allow any loose clothing or long hair to tangle with it.
Gansan is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 2nd October 2011, 21:59   #93
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Kolkata
Posts: 88
Thanked: 26 Times
Default Re: Alto Issues

@Aroy and @Gansan, thanks for your pointers. I will get these points checked and post the outcome. It might be sometime before I do that, since Durga Puja quite closes out other activities. I hope the issue is not life-threatening. Should it be allright to use it for short commutes?
SupratikDebnath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd October 2011, 11:17   #94
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Delhi
Posts: 2,025
Thanked: 896 Times
Default Re: Alto Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by SupratikDebnath View Post
@Aroy and @Gansan, thanks for your pointers. I will get these points checked and post the outcome. It might be sometime before I do that, since Durga Puja quite closes out other activities. I hope the issue is not life-threatening. Should it be allright to use it for short commutes?
Carry on as usual. These are neither life threatening nor catastrophic problems, unless the engine mounting just crumbles to dust! Jokes apart, carry on but get it checked ASAP.
Aroy is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 17th October 2011, 00:00   #95
BHPian
 
callvvijay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Chennai
Posts: 249
Thanked: 141 Times
Default Re: Alto Issues

Gurus, here is the problem I have faced today.
I was just about to start my Alto from my in-law's place when suddenly I felt that the clutch plate was gone. I mean, I was able to push the clutch without any sort of resistance and the clutch pedal hits the floor. Effectively, I am not able to put the car on gear. So, I parked my car in my in-law's place itself and came back home by my b-i-l's bike.

Called up MASS and I was told that my car has to be towed to the workshop and the entire clutch assembly has to be changed and it would cost me around 6K :( + the towing charges!

Need your expert advice at this point. Can somebody explain as to what exactly has happened in my car?

Just to throw light on what happened over the past 3-4 days - I was driving in a b-2-b traffic at half clutch when suddenly I heard a "thack" sound (as if something broke) from the clutch pedal. I felt the same thing twice or thrice. However, I was not able to stop the car as I was in the middle of the road and also was running late for a doc appointment.

After that incident, the point where I would feel the stiffness from the clutch (resistance) has lowered - that is - usually I used to feel the resistance at say about 1 inch of me depressing the clutch. But now I could feel the resistance only after 3 inches of depressing the clutch. I somehow managed to drive the car for the past 3-4 days and now this. I had been thinking of taking my car for service and now I will have to pay for the towing too! :(

My questions:
1. As asked above, what has actually happened?
2. Is a full clutch assembly replacement necessary?
3. How much would that cost?

And some points about my car
Alto LXi - 2008 Model. Has run 34K+ kms single-handedly.

Thanks!!

Last edited by callvvijay : 17th October 2011 at 00:01.
callvvijay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th October 2011, 07:34   #96
Senior - BHPian
 
Gansan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Chennai
Posts: 3,393
Thanked: 841 Times
Default Re: Alto Issues

There were some clutch issues with 2007 batch Altos, where the clutch failed at 10K Km and was replaced under warranty. Look for ownership threads by Akroy and GPA. I have no idea about the expected life of the Alto clutch. The only other long term Alto owner (7 years) known to me is my BIL and I don't think he has replaced the clutch. But then his car has clocked only 27k KM.

BTW which MASS did you call?
Gansan is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 17th October 2011, 08:25   #97
BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Currently, New Delhi
Posts: 423
Thanked: 92 Times
Default Re: Alto Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by callvvijay View Post
Alto LXi - 2008 Model. Has run 34K+ kms single-handedly.

Thanks!!
Clutch needs replacement. Though it should've lasted atleast 50K, traffic & driving habits accelerate wear. Please get MGP Valeo clutch & don't go for CeeKay (by default, you will get CeeKay). Both cost the same, but Valeo quality is better.

Do use this opportunity to get the clutch cables & actuator etc. checked.
JustCause is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 17th October 2011, 08:34   #98
BHPian
 
callvvijay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Chennai
Posts: 249
Thanked: 141 Times
Default Re: Alto Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
There were some clutch issues with 2007 batch Altos, where the clutch failed at 10K Km and was replaced under warranty. Look for ownership threads by Akroy and GPA. I have no idea about the expected life of the Alto clutch. The only other long term Alto owner (7 years) known to me is my BIL and I don't think he has replaced the clutch. But then his car has clocked only 27k KM.

BTW which MASS did you call?
Thank you, sir!!

I called up my usual service centre - Khivraj, Mount Road and I was asked to call up the toll-free for on-road assistance. Through that, I got a call back from ABT, Guindy.

Both the service centres quoted almost the same rate. I have been giving my car for service all these years at Khivraj, but now when coming to towing - ABT being close-by, its convenient!
callvvijay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th October 2011, 09:43   #99
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Delhi
Posts: 2,025
Thanked: 896 Times
Default Re: Alto Issues

Looks like the clutch plate is bust (sounds like a broken plate). In general M800 clutch would last at least 60K km, but you may have got a bad piece.
Aroy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th October 2011, 11:30   #100
Senior - BHPian
 
Gansan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Chennai
Posts: 3,393
Thanked: 841 Times
Default Re: Alto Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by callvvijay View Post
ABT being close-by, its convenient!
If I were you I will call MSM on road assistance -9176614000. The job will be more professional.
Gansan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th October 2011, 11:30   #101
BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 43
Thanked: 2 Times
Default Re: Alto Issues

Must go in steps to find the reason.
1. Look if the clutch wire has snapped.
2. Is the clutch lever arm connecting the clutch wire and assmbly ok.
3. If both are ok, then the clutch asmbly will have to be dismantled and checked from inside. Most probably the diaphragm spring has broken. If the clutch plate is ok then why change complete assmbly. The diaphragm spring alone should be sufficient to replace.

Last edited by rkguru : 17th October 2011 at 11:34.
rkguru is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 17th October 2011, 17:45   #102
BHPian
 
callvvijay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Chennai
Posts: 249
Thanked: 141 Times
Default Re: Alto Issues

Thanks all for your responses. Got it rectified!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
If I were you I will call MSM on road assistance -9176614000. The job will be more professional.
By the time you had written this post, I was in ABT, Guindy!. Anyway, thanks for your responses sir!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rkguru View Post
Must go in steps to find the reason.
1. Look if the clutch wire has snapped.
2. Is the clutch lever arm connecting the clutch wire and assmbly ok.
3. If both are ok, then the clutch asmbly will have to be dismantled and checked from inside. Most probably the diaphragm spring has broken. If the clutch plate is ok then why change complete assmbly. The diaphragm spring alone should be sufficient to replace.
Yeah. the clutch wire had snapped! However, the service mechanic, after rectifying the issue felt the clutch and said that it needs a replacement sometime sooner. And he referred me to his boss who also felt the clutch and said that it will run for another 5K kms but then I will have to change it.
callvvijay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th October 2011, 10:54   #103
BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 43
Thanked: 2 Times
Default Re: Alto Issues

To check the condition of the clutch yourself, o n a level surface put the gear on 3rd and gently release the clutch with leg off acc pedal. If the vehicle stalls and goes off then the clutch is ok if not you need a replacement.
No one can tell the condition of the clutch inside how much more it will go. It may even go 20k km, who knows.
rkguru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th October 2011, 13:51   #104
BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Trivandrum
Posts: 863
Thanked: 319 Times
Default Re: Alto Issues

Many clutch cable failures are because of lack of lubrication, I think. But when I checked with a MASS in Trivandrum, they advised that clutch cable lubrication is not possible (and not recommended too) in Alto. I know many cars whose clutch cable needs oiling every 5000 km.

Is this a ploy by MASS to generate early repairs?
jinojohnt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th October 2011, 20:38   #105
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: zxc
Posts: 3,390
Thanked: 645 Times
Default Re: Alto Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by jinojohnt View Post
Many clutch cable failures are because of lack of lubrication, I think. But when I checked with a MASS in Trivandrum, they advised that clutch cable lubrication is not possible (and not recommended too) in Alto. I know many cars whose clutch cable needs oiling every 5000 km.

Is this a ploy by MASS to generate early repairs?
Its a 130 rupees cable and fitting is Rs. 50. why do you need to lubricate it. These are cheap parts but will keep you stranded for hours if snapped. Hence i recommend replacing it when ever it feels necessary.

PS: lubrication is possible. You need to remove it and spray thoroughly with WD40 or RustOff. but why take the pain.
SirAlec is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Issues With Alto Steering S.I.N.G.H Technical Stuff 9 24th January 2012 15:42
Alto LXI - 2700 kms and some issues travelwriter Test-Drives & Initial Ownership Reports 23 14th December 2011 11:17
Alto : Engine Oil Light stays on. And some other issues abhibh Technical Stuff 33 18th September 2011 22:07
Issues with Headers - Alto Knight Rider Technical Stuff 9 13th September 2007 15:59


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 06:33.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks