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Old 14th January 2014, 10:26   #331
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Default Re: Zen and the art of maintaining it

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Originally Posted by zenren View Post
P.S: I've always had the leanest mixture and the result was replacement of the starting motor every 5-6 years.
Even with Leanest mixture, wouldn't flooring accelerator twice before starting car in morning help (with no choke)?

I do that in cold mornings or nights and car starts in first self. Its a '99Carb with 1.04L on ODO.
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Old 14th January 2014, 10:58   #332
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Default Re: Zen and the art of maintaining it

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Even with Leanest mixture, wouldn't flooring accelerator twice before starting car in morning help (with no choke)?

I do that in cold mornings or nights and car starts in first self. Its a '99Carb with 1.04L on ODO.
Flooring accelerator twice would give the required fuel for starting in the first crank but it wouldn't help much while running the first few metres when the idling is still erratic due to cold engine. My car starts with choke in the first attempt but usually dies out once or twice in the first 100m or so from my house, thanks to a hump at the gate to prevent water flowing into the compound during monsoon and a steep incline that follows.

BTW, mine is a 95 model with a little over 1.75L on odo.
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Old 14th January 2014, 13:53   #333
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Default Re: Zen and the art of maintaining it

Thanks for replying zenren!

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My car starts with choke in the first attempt but usually dies out once or twice in the first 100m or so from my house, thanks to a hump at the gate to prevent water flowing into the compound during monsoon and a steep incline that follows.
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Originally Posted by zenren View Post
If its okay once the temperature gets to normal, then that is the expected behaviour for carb Zen. Let it warm up with the choke for 30-45 seconds before starting to drive during cold start and you should be fine.

If you can maintain the choke zone rpm with the accelerator while driving, then you can warm up the car while driving too.
Yes, that sums up my car's behaviour pretty accurately too. Start with first crank (no choke)- gasp for air- pump the accelerator to maintain choke level rpm-good to go after a couple of hundred meters.

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Originally Posted by zenren View Post
Carb overhaul would be the best way forward. There is no point in doing carb cleaning without re-adjusting to lean mixture as a rich mixture is always going to result in incomplete combustion and lead to carbon deposits in the carburettor which would make the whole effort short lived.
Forgive my ignorance, but what's the difference between carb overhauling and cleaning? I used to think overhauling is simply disassembling, cleaning and reassembling! And if the behaviour as i mentioned here earlier is normal for a carb Zen, how will overhauling the carb help?
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Old 14th January 2014, 15:02   #334
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Default Re: Zen and the art of maintaining it

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Forgive my ignorance, but what's the difference between carb overhauling and cleaning? I used to think overhauling is simply disassembling, cleaning and reassembling! And if the behaviour as i mentioned here earlier is normal for a carb Zen, how will overhauling the carb help?
In strict sense, carb cleaning re-uses existing parts itself after cleaning them while overhaul typically replaces some parts within the carburettor and re-uses the long lasting parts after cleaning. Some of the parts are not easy to clean properly due to their structure but are cheap enough and are easier to replace. Last time I did the overhaul, cost was around 1500.

In the usual context, both mean the same since most mechanics would advice replacing worn out parts with new ones once they disassemble. I would stick to strictly cleaning only if we don't trust the genuineness of the replacement parts or in case of lack of availability of original parts which are not really a concern for the zen. In case of rare models like the classic cars, parts are not easily available and hence the choice is between cleaning the original part and replacing with a 'compatible' aftermarket spare part where I would go with the former option if possible.

What I meant in my previous reply to gearedup was that the cleaning/overhauling was meaningless if the tuning was again set (after reassembling) with richer fuel mixture which will clog the carburettor with carbon deposits again in no time.
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Old 14th January 2014, 22:20   #335
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Default Re: Zen and the art of maintaining it

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Originally Posted by zenren View Post
In strict sense, carb cleaning re-uses existing parts itself after cleaning them while overhaul typically replaces some parts within the carburettor and re-uses the long lasting parts after cleaning...
I would stick to strictly cleaning only if we don't trust the genuineness of the replacement parts or in case of lack of availability of original parts which are not really a concern for the zen.
What I meant in my previous reply to gearedup was that the cleaning/overhauling was meaningless if the tuning was again set (after reassembling) with richer fuel mixture which will clog the carburettor with carbon deposits again in no time.
Thanks for clarifying Zenren. My existing mechanic is trying to scare me that if I go in for a lean mixture then I may face lack of power since I drive mainly with AC on

I do not believe that the car draws power only from a rich mixture. I intend to overhaul the carb & reset to an ideal recommended mix.
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Old 15th January 2014, 12:06   #336
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Default Re: Zen and the art of maintaining it

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Thanks for clarifying Zenren. My existing mechanic is trying to scare me that if I go in for a lean mixture then I may face lack of power since I drive mainly with AC on

I do not believe that the car draws power only from a rich mixture. I intend to overhaul the carb & reset to an ideal recommended mix.
Just out of curiosity, will high idle RPM make life better during start and stop? As Zen needs higher rpm to move in 1st gear from standstill, else it just stalls due to lack of power. RPM do go high automatically with AC ON, but not too much help. Also clutch will be saved
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Old 15th January 2014, 16:56   #337
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Default Re: Zen and the art of maintaining it

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Just out of curiosity, will high idle RPM make life better during start and stop? As Zen needs higher rpm to move in 1st gear from standstill, else it just stalls due to lack of power. RPM do go high automatically with AC ON, but not too much help. Also clutch will be saved
Yes devrajman, for me- high idle RPM has been making my life smooth as butter during start & stop. (Am not competent to technify this )
In Bangalore winter of upto 12 degrees. I am able to even start the AC within 5 seconds, without the engine dying on me. I do take off and immediately travel the next KM on 2nd gear, helping the engine to gradually warm-up.

I don't think that there is any change in the RPM after switching the AC on, ofcourse only the power to the engine is substantially less. (Remember your AC turbo boost post!) Yes, it also saves the clutch, even with AC on, never felt the need for using half clutch .

In heavy traffic, please correct me - I feel it becomes a bane, too much of braking required even with 1st gear, since the ZEN feels like propelling ahead smack into the next available bumper!
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Old 15th January 2014, 17:20   #338
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Default Re: Zen and the art of maintaining it

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Originally Posted by gearedup View Post
I don't think that there is any change in the RPM after switching the AC on, ofcourse only the power to the engine is substantially less. (Remember your AC turbo boost post!) Yes, it also saves the clutch, even with AC on, never felt the need for using half clutch .
!
There should change in idle-RPM if AC is ON. Some vacuum/tubing in your carb isnt right. Pls Get it checked.
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Old 28th January 2014, 19:34   #339
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Default Update on drive shaft noise.

Update on drive shaft noise @175k km - Now clocking 190k km and the clicking noise has not progressed any further. Also, there is no issue with the steering not fully returning to the "middle" position automatically after hard turning [U turns]. So far so good. However I've noticed that whenever I drive without slowing down at the "rumbler strips", the car does get thrown off track as if it was being pushed to one side suddenly! I guess the culprits are the tires [Michelin X1] which have already done 55k km; time for a change?
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Old 28th January 2014, 20:01   #340
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Default Problem with cold starts - jerkiness & poor pickup

My 2001 carb Zen had a RTO approved LPG kit fitment done 5 years ago - since then, its done 1.25 lac km on LPG. About a year ago, there was a problem of "misfiring" during the early morning starts - MASS could not solve it and blamed it on the LPG apparatus not working properly, especially during cold winter mornings. Since the kit had never been "serviced", I decided to get it done at a LPG fitting/servicing center. That guy actually traced the problem to a faulty code wire [that connects the distributor to the plugs]. On very close observation, the misfiring, although very much less noticeable on switching to petrol, was still present. I replaced the code wire set and was incidentally fortunate on procuring one that was specifically recommended for LPG converted cars! And at the same time, I also got the evaporator opened and cleaned of the fairly significant amount of powdery metallic dust that had accumulated in the diaphragm. The diaphragms were stated to be allright and were not replaced. He also advanced the timing by slightly rotating the distributor clockwise. The firing was back to the usual smooth nature and the morning starts were better. However, I noticed that the fuel efficiency had dropped by 1-2 kmpl, but I lived with it. This winter [and even to this day], the problem of misfiring has started again. The car starts fine with the choke [both the usual & the one on the gas selector module], but on throwing it into gear, has no juice at all. On trying to give it more gas, I can hear sounds like small explosions from under the bonnet, and the car stalls. This noise is coming from the vacuum system/diaphragms of the carb, but on inspecting this [I've done this almost everyday], they all seem to be intact externally. I've tried to circumvent this problem by starting on petrol, and the same thing happens, but for a lesser time. I have to mention that I had got a carb overhaul done last year @ MASS - at that time they had cleaned out all the little linkages, nozzles with injector spray and replaced all the gaskets, and external vacuum pipes. The power valve was replaced as some petrol was leaking out. Now I'm wondering if its the carburettor or its diaphrams or the vacuum system thats the culprit. Any ideas?
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Old 8th February 2014, 19:02   #341
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Default Re: Zen and the art of maintaining it

Hello everyone, last evening my 2002 Mpfi zen suddenly stopped showing the 'check engine light' when I turned the key before cranking. I checked the fuse marked FI and replaced it even if it wasn't blown. Today, I called the mechanic who cranked the car and it refused to start. The FI fuse was blown, but even replacing it didn't solve the problem. Finally it was found that one of the relays located inside the bonnet was malfunctioning. They have put a temporary replacement and Iíll get the replacement on Monday.

Now the question is there are three relays located in the engine compartment, on the firewall on the passenger's side. One (Interface make) is larger than the other two (Denso make), all three I believe are from the factory. I want to know what is the function of the three. Also, two of the connectors to the relay are black while one is white. Common sense tells me that the odd (white) connector should go to the odd (read big) relay, but the mechanic has attached a small relay to the white connector. Can someone please shed some light on this conundrum?

P.S.: the big relay is shot.
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Old 4th March 2014, 13:45   #342
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Default Re: Zen and the art of maintaining it

Went for an [over]due service @190000km - pointed out the cold running issues: loss of power, noises from the vacuum pipes. After a test drive [during which none of this happened, as the car, and the weather now are warmer], the technical person told me that there is a noise coming from the tappet/valves - due to increase in the clearance. This is due to normal "wear and tear", which may be "more in my case" as I have run it for 125000 km on LPG. He also reasoned that the cold start/running problems may well be because of loss of compression, due to valve problems. Bottomline - I was offered the option of engine overhaul with SOS replacement/re-boring as deemed necessary. I have put this on hold for now, and got the regular tune-up done. The problem seems to have reduced a bit, but I don't know how long before it will start again. There was a minor oil leak from the draining nut - was solved and oil changed with filter. Any inputs or experience regarding similar issue, anyone?
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Old 6th March 2014, 16:10   #343
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Default Re: Zen and the art of maintaining it

I have a 99 model carb zen which has done around 1.3L Km's. Never in it's close to 15years lifetime, has it got it's carb overhauled. Though, there is no problem in power delivery (missing, stalling, etc), the average seems a bit low to me. It gives me 13.5 without AC in peak hours. I went to a few MASS to get the carb overhauled, but none seem to be interested in doing the job. They say carb overhaul would not affect FE one bit, and that it should be done only if there is some problem (misfiring, missing, etc).
They further add that, opening a carb can disturb original settings and can cause more harm than good if not done properly. Moreover, these days very few people know about carb's and hence they fear tinkering with it.
Can somebody throw some light over this issue. Maruti it seems has stopped giving spare part support to zen carburettor. Whatever is available is grey market stuff and not MGP.
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Old 4th April 2014, 10:37   #344
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Default Re: Zen and the art of maintaining it

I am about to get my '96 Zen restored.
The body work has to be done to remove rusting all over. The car will be completely painted and I am looking for some graphics to make it look fancy - this is for the missus.

I will be replacing entire suspension (with parts from opera house) and also the entire wiring as preventive maintenance.

Also, the ORVM's need to be replaced and so does the windshield.
I will be replacing the belts and as many hoses as I can - since 15 years is a long time for the rubber, I suppose.
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Old 4th April 2014, 10:55   #345
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Default Re: Zen and the art of maintaining it

Good luck with your project. I had a 97 Zen with zero rusting issues and sold only because of weak AC. Wish we had retained it. Its a terrific car.


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I am about to get my '96 Zen restored.
The body work has to be done to remove rusting all over. The car will be completely painted and I am looking for some graphics to make it look fancy - this is for the missus.

I will be replacing entire suspension (with parts from opera house) and also the entire wiring as preventive maintenance.

Also, the ORVM's need to be replaced and so does the windshield.
I will be replacing the belts and as many hoses as I can - since 15 years is a long time for the rubber, I suppose.
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