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Old 13th May 2014, 16:38   #376
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Default Re: Zen and the art of maintaining it

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Originally Posted by ssjr0498 View Post
Are you sure it was R12, local chaps have been know to use the stuff that's used in the older refrigerator's. R12 was banned quite a while back.
I am told R12 is still manufactured and can be arranged. I am going to go for it myself after my car is restored. Will need more than one can.
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Old 13th May 2014, 16:56   #377
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Default Re: Zen and the art of maintaining it

R12 AC refrigerant is very much available in the market.
I got my AC condenser in my Zen replaced in Feb this year due to an accident and R12 refrigerant was filled in MASS.

It is also available in most of the AC service centres.
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Old 15th May 2014, 10:16   #378
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Default Re: Zen and the art of maintaining it

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R12 AC refrigerant is very much available in the market.
I got my AC condenser in my Zen replaced in Feb this year due to an accident and R12 refrigerant was filled in MASS.

It is also available in most of the AC service centres.
That is very strange!!! Not a single MASS in Kolkata, when I checked for my zen 2yrs back had the R12. They flatly refused, saying, the gas is Banned.

It was however, available with the local ac mechs, but due to the scarcity and a lot of demand, some of them resorted to the duplicate stuff, eg. the gas found in the fridges and stuff!
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Old 15th May 2014, 11:13   #379
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Default Re: Zen and the art of maintaining it

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Originally Posted by ssjr0498 View Post
That is very strange!!! Not a single MASS in Kolkata, when I checked for my zen 2yrs back had the R12. They flatly refused, saying, the gas is Banned.

It was however, available with the local ac mechs, but due to the scarcity and a lot of demand, some of them resorted to the duplicate stuff, eg. the gas found in the fridges and stuff!
Same in Ranchi too. All MASS'es have refused for refilling R12; even one with whom I have a business relation of over 10 years! In fact, R12 is not even available with road side AC repair shops. Probably, I will have to change the whole system to take the R134a sooner or later.
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Old 15th May 2014, 12:42   #380
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Default Re: Zen and the art of maintaining it

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Originally Posted by ssjr0498 View Post
That is very strange!!! Not a single MASS in Kolkata, when I checked for my zen 2yrs back had the R12. They flatly refused, saying, the gas is Banned.

It was however, available with the local ac mechs, but due to the scarcity and a lot of demand, some of them resorted to the duplicate stuff, eg. the gas found in the fridges and stuff!
This was an insurance claim and the work was completed in the MASS itself. Maybe they got the refrigerant from an outside vendor.
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Old 15th May 2014, 14:59   #381
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Default Re: Zen and the art of maintaining it

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedmiester View Post
R12 AC refrigerant is very much available in the market.
I got my AC condenser in my Zen replaced in Feb this year due to an accident and R12 refrigerant was filled in MASS.

It is also available in most of the AC service centres.
Quote:
Originally Posted by speedmiester View Post
This was an insurance claim and the work was completed in the MASS itself. Maybe they got the refrigerant from an outside vendor.
Have no intentions to argue, however, my school bud has a MASS in Kolkata and I had asked him once jokingly, if I were to bang my car and if the gas were to leak, what would you do? His answer was, "legally, if I have to bill you, we will change your cooling system to accommodate a R134a as the R12 is banned! But as a friend, I can do it, just don't ask me for a Bill"

I find it extremely hard to digest that a MASS will issue you the R12 gas on their original BILL!!
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Old 17th August 2014, 11:16   #382
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Default Re: Zen and the art of maintaining it

Hi guys this is Parijat and I have a 2000 maruti Zen carburetted which has done 59+kms recent service done at 59 k. My biggest problem is that I haven't been able to find a good trustworthy mechanic for my Zen in thane area. Mechanics try to cheat me all the time, by quoting exorbitant prices and heavy repairs that are "v.v.imp". However I haven't found one who is able to convince me with a justification for the repairs suggested. Recently I've come across a peculiar problem, is that in first, reverse and at times during heavy rains there is a distinct sound apart from the engine when it is under pressure, sort of 'tak, tak tak'. the moment you relieve the engine out of stress by say changing gear ( upshift/ downshift) or switching off the ac the noise is gone. I think its the engine mounts and the gearbox mounts that might be damaged. Btw in first gear with ac 'on'. After releasing the clutch the car vibrates, which disappears when you give more gas. Upon recommendation went to mechanic who said that the connecting rod needs to be checked some bearing must be damaged or something(I've done connecting rod work done like 10k'S Back). He needs to inspect it. Btw during test drive he said that the clutch has gone hard and needs replacement. The next thing he said was interesting, he said that the car doesn't accelerate as it should even if its on full throttle and that's because the clutch is worn. He even showed this to me, but get this he hadn't pressed the clutch when he did this. Is that even possible??? Fellows love maintaining my car to the best of the health, im spending ridiculous amount of money with very less satisfaction. Is there a way out???
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Old 17th August 2014, 11:55   #383
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Bro , I would suggest that you get your car evaluated for the necessary 'to do ' work at maruti and then make a list of the parts required and then buy them over the counter at maruti and then get the work done at your trusted garage , BTW in the 8 years I owned the m800 actg and 9 years the alto lxi I realized that giving the car for repairs out of maruti caused me more problems .I'd say stick to mass even if labour is slightly on the higher side , lesser problems .
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Old 17th August 2014, 12:30   #384
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Default Re: Zen and the art of maintaining it

Get the car properly evaluated at a reliable MASS. Zen is mostly a no maintenance car. But then again if your car is cropping up with problems every other day then it is always advisable to get your car assessed and perform a good one time maintenance from MASS. Our Zen MPFI was routinely serviced at MASS. Once we did some suspension work from local garage and the car started giving all sorts of problems from next month onwards. Apart from engine oil change we decided to do all works from MASS from then onwards - lesson learnt. Regarding the problem you have mentioned, you might need a clutch overhaul.
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Old 17th August 2014, 13:14   #385
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Default Re: Zen and the art of maintaining it

Quote:
Originally Posted by parijatborse View Post
Mechanics try to cheat me all the time, by quoting exorbitant prices and heavy repairs that are "v.v.imp". However I haven't found one who is able to convince me with a justification for the repairs suggested.
Given that your car does seem to have multiple problems, don't assume that the mechanics are all trying to cheat you. I agree that no one likes to pay for major repairs but given that multiple mechanics mentioned similar statements and you yourself say there are problems with your car, it is more likely that your car actually needs some repairs that the mechanics say.

BTW, most of the mechanics over-quote a potential repair to ensure that the owner wouldn't refuse to pay after the repairs in case something unforeseen comes up after disassembling the parts and the actual cost overshoots the original estimate. Actual bills need not be always as high as the estimates. They usually go with worst case estimate unless they know you really well as a reasonable guy; in which case you can get a realistic estimate with the unwritten disclaimer.

For example, some of the parts could be worn out or broken but still remain there and probably give a 75% functionality due to the accumulated dust and dirt keeping it in one piece. Once you remove it to inspect, there would be no way to put it back! If they think of you as someone who wouldn't believe this and would probably accuse them of breaking it while disassembling the piece, they give the estimate for replacement initially so that you wont fight later.

Quote:
Recently I've come across a peculiar problem, is that in first, reverse and at times during heavy rains there is a distinct sound apart from the engine when it is under pressure, sort of 'tak, tak tak'. the moment you relieve the engine out of stress by say changing gear ( upshift/ downshift) or switching off the ac the noise is gone. I think its the engine mounts and the gearbox mounts that might be damaged.
It could even be a worn out belt, but I could be wrong since I'm just trying to imagine what the noise might be!

Quote:
Btw in first gear with ac 'on'. After releasing the clutch the car vibrates, which disappears when you give more gas. Upon recommendation went to mechanic who said that the connecting rod needs to be checked some bearing must be damaged or something(I've done connecting rod work done like 10k'S Back). He needs to inspect it.
I'm not sure about this, but the idle vibrations, especially around the dashboard area was something inherent in carb-Zen when slightly accelerated. This was prominent with AC on in neutral, or when the accelerator was pressed slightly even without AC. This used to go away once the clutch is fully released. Is it the same issue or something different? Are the vibrations in your case restricted to just the dashboard area or does the seats and the frame vibrate as well?

From what you say as the mechanic mentioned regarding the connecting rods, he just wants to inspect the bearings. I think it is better to replace the worn out bearings in time instead of waiting for it to wear out the connected parts and replace the entire assembly. It could even be due to the clutch slipping and still keeping the car within the idle-vibration-rpm even when in very low speeds.

Quote:
Btw during test drive he said that the clutch has gone hard and needs replacement. The next thing he said was interesting, he said that the car doesn't accelerate as it should even if its on full throttle and that's because the clutch is worn. He even showed this to me, but get this he hadn't pressed the clutch when he did this. Is that even possible???
If there is a performance drop, it is very much possible that the clutch is the culprit here - either the clutch cable or the clutch/pressure plate. If you are still on original set, 60k km sounds more or less like a normal life.

The whole issue of worn out clutch is that it slips even when the pedal is fully released and thereby doesn't transfer the full torque from the engine to the tyres. So there is nothing strange in the mechanic showing it to you without pressing the clutch.

Quote:
Fellows love maintaining my car to the best of the health, im spending ridiculous amount of money with very less satisfaction. Is there a way out???
There are phases in the car ownership where you would need to start paying a lot to maintain a car, which is why cars are typically a depreciating asset. If you haven't had any major work done on your car so far, I think it is just normal that a lot of them are hitting you at the same time.

In my case, 2009-10 period cost me over 60k in repairs/replacements though the period after that till now is back to what it used to be - roughly 15-20k in maintenance per year.
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Old 19th August 2014, 13:43   #386
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Default Re: Zen and the art of maintaining it

Update on the restoration.
Currently the car is at an AC specialist and after fixing several 'claimed' leakages, and changing the pipe from 'receiver' to cooling coil, it seems the compressor has 'leakage' and needs to be changed.

I was told that they can put a second-hand one for Rs. 7000. Now, I am not sure it the pricing is good, but I am considering visiting some scrap dealer and getting the 70 or 80 CC compressor for Zen (mine is still on R12 gas).

Edit: Found someone in Nasik selling a second hand one for around Rs. 3500.

Last edited by S_U_N : 19th August 2014 at 14:05.
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Old 19th August 2014, 16:39   #387
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Default Re: Zen and the art of maintaining it

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I was told that they can put a second-hand one for Rs. 7000. Now, I am not sure it the pricing is good, but I am considering visiting some scrap dealer and getting the 70 or 80 CC compressor for Zen (mine is still on R12 gas).

Edit: Found someone in Nasik selling a second hand one for around Rs. 3500.
Since you are anyway restoring the car and would keep it for quite some time into the future, think about converting to R134a system. R12 is difficult to procure and whatever is available now through back-channels are recycled from old systems. It is just a matter of time before that source dries up.

It cost me around 10k 5 years back for replacing the compressor to R134a type and converting the system to use the new gas. Avoid paying a considerable amount to get a second hand compressor which would still use the old gas. You might eventually have to convert the system anyway once something else needs to be replaced. See if you can procure second hand R134a compressor. Otherwise, there are new compressors available in the open market at reasonable prices from the same companies that make MGP compressors - I forgot if it was a Sanden or Subros that I got for my Zen. Only difference is that it is not carrying MGP/Maruti logo and instead carries their own logo.
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Old 19th August 2014, 16:59   #388
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Default Re: Zen and the art of maintaining it

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Originally Posted by zenren View Post
Since you are anyway restoring the car and would keep it for quite some time into the future, think about converting to R134a system. R12 is difficult to procure and whatever is available now through back-channels are recycled from old systems. It is just a matter of time before that source dries up.
That is a sound advice. My car also uses R12 as refrigerant. However, MASS decided to flush the system completely, change the compressor oil and fill R134a, but they told me in advance that the AC will not be that effective. And really it wasn't. If you go the MGP way, it will take about 35-40K for changing the entire system to R134a. You may buy a Sanden/ Subros/ Denso compressor, which all were OEMs at some point of time for Maruti from market. You will have to change the evaporator bottle and some additional components too including pipelines and rubber hoses.
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Old 19th August 2014, 17:40   #389
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Default Re: Zen and the art of maintaining it

Yes. Converting is an option, but that adds more cost. Frankly getting R12 is not a problem for a few of the mechanics here in Pune.

I have to try and visit Nana Peth to see if I can get a used compressor in the Rs. 2000 price range. If yes, I will go with that option. I now have to find a trustworthy AC specialist.

If I convert to R134a, then I suspect I will have to incur additional Rs. 3000-4000.
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Old 3rd September 2014, 15:16   #390
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So, after visiting Nana peth, I came to know that compressor is available for Rs. 2500 (negotiable). This is the Subrose compressor for R12.
I have not yet proceeded on that.

Meanwhile, the workshop guy has prepared the list of costs and shared that with me.

I am putting this up for everyone's review and benefit.
Some items such as labour for removing/fitting is not as per earlier agreement.

File attached.
Zen cost sheet.xlsx
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