Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Technical Stuff


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 20th February 2015, 19:19   #421
Senior - BHPian
 
S_U_N's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Pune
Posts: 1,775
Thanked: 374 Times
Default Re: Zen and the art of maintaining it

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Slow View Post
Never heard of this oil company called zic, I wouldn't want to use an oil like this in my car. (google shows it to be some company based in Pakistan)
Actually it is a Korean company.
http://www.skilube.com/latest.html
S_U_N is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 20th February 2015, 19:27   #422
Senior - BHPian
 
Captain Slow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,212
Thanked: 494 Times
Default Re: Zen and the art of maintaining it

Quote:
Originally Posted by S_U_N View Post
Actually it is a Korean company.
http://www.skilube.com/latest.html
I stand corrected. You are right!

http://www.skilube.com/index.html


Quote:
ZIC is from the Korea's only specialized maker of lubrication products.
Captain Slow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd February 2015, 21:19   #423
BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 188
Thanked: 81 Times
Default Re: Zen and the art of maintaining it

Quote:
Originally Posted by S_U_N View Post
So, Shell HX3 20W-50 is fine for Zen?
I use it in my car. As per the company's manual, its absolutely fine. A 40 weight oil would have been better, but they are usually more expensive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Slow View Post
fighterace
Is right, 40W should be the minimum for an older engine like the zen.

20W50 will also work but you might notice a slightly lower fuel economy and your engine may feel under powered.
If your running is very less then this shouldn't be a problem.
It depends on the ambient temperature. 5W-30 is also recommended, but only for temperatures below 10 deg C.

Quote:
Originally Posted by saket77 View Post
I normally use 5W-30 Magnatec since beginning. The engine has done just 30K kms. Considering the engine is not run much, I presume I should be okay.(?) Any thoughts over it?
Pls refer to the point above. Yours is a low running car. Why are you wasting money on Magnatec? In any case, oil must be changed once a year, so for you normal oil should suffice. And the viscosity is just WRONG. There was a case of 5W-30 in an Alto with the F8D engine, and MAruti had given a negative response. Can't find the thread, but it's there somewhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by S_U_N View Post
Well, in that case, I would not be willing to put it in.

The current state of tune is already towards fuel efficiency. I don't want the oil to reduce the pickup.

So, I will skip the 20W50 Shell Helix HX3

My mechanic is using oil from a Korean company called Zic. He swears by it and has put it in cars from Audi's to Maruti's.

However I discovered it is synthetic, which I do not want to go for.


I will search for a good price for HX5 15W40
An engine so happy to redline can hardly tuned for efficiency. What is the avg you are getting? If you are running lean, thicker oil may be a better idea given the heat produced. In the end, it is your decision.

BTW, how much do the Zic oils cost? The argument in favour of Shell is VFM more than anything else. A new kid in the block may upset this.

Last edited by fighterace : 23rd February 2015 at 21:37.
fighterace is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 24th February 2015, 14:09   #424
Senior - BHPian
 
S_U_N's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Pune
Posts: 1,775
Thanked: 374 Times
Default Re: Zen and the art of maintaining it

Quote:
Originally Posted by fighterace View Post



An engine so happy to redline can hardly tuned for efficiency. What is the avg you are getting? If you are running lean, thicker oil may be a better idea given the heat produced. In the end, it is your decision.

BTW, how much do the Zic oils cost? The argument in favour of Shell is VFM more than anything else. A new kid in the block may upset this.
I have not done a tank-full in a very long time. So I cannot comment on the mileage now.

About Zic, since it is synthetic, I did not even bother to ask the price.

Edit: It is summer time quite soon. Temperatures in in Pune will not be less than 14 deg for the next six-seven months. In that case, we don't need to spend extra on the 5W, no?

Last edited by S_U_N : 24th February 2015 at 14:12.
S_U_N is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th February 2015, 13:18   #425
Senior - BHPian
 
svsantosh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hosur
Posts: 3,299
Thanked: 1,219 Times
Default Re: Zen and the art of maintaining it

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trust_In_Thrust View Post
In my Zen mpfi 2002...Can someone please help in noting down what all may cause uneven idling (It will go up and down).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trust_In_Thrust View Post
I solved the problem .There is a sensor in throttle body in in which there is a bearing and it was not free so cleaned it up and no idle rpm fluctuations now...
TBhp never ceases to amaze me or any one who would encounter a difficult issue with their car in India.

I was stuck with a exact same issue of idling issue on a 2002 Mpfi Zen. Decarb did not help at all, so throttle body was opened up and the above bearing was at fault. The shaft seen in a youtube video below was jammed partially, could feel the rough patch when rotated with fingers.

The sensor's insides were also petrol washed and quite a bit of carbon was removed.



Name:  IMG_20150225_110253.jpg
Views: 664
Size:  43.8 KB

Name:  IMG_20150225_110245.jpg
Views: 715
Size:  55.0 KB

Name:  IMG_20150225_110518.jpg
Views: 623
Size:  85.3 KB

Name:  IMG_20150225_110606.jpg
Views: 915
Size:  110.7 KB

Name:  IMG_20150225_110308.jpg
Views: 621
Size:  43.5 KB
svsantosh is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 25th February 2015, 14:51   #426
BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 188
Thanked: 81 Times
Default Re: Zen and the art of maintaining it

Quote:
Originally Posted by S_U_N View Post
I have not done a tank-full in a very long time. So I cannot comment on the mileage now.

About Zic, since it is synthetic, I did not even bother to ask the price.

Edit: It is summer time quite soon. Temperatures in in Pune will not be less than 14 deg for the next six-seven months. In that case, we don't need to spend extra on the 5W, no?
Please see the service manual, even 20W-50 is good enough for any temperature above -10 deg C, which is more than the worst Pune winters.
fighterace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th February 2015, 14:56   #427
BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 188
Thanked: 81 Times
Default Re: Zen and the art of maintaining it

Quote:
Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post
TBhp never ceases to amaze me or any one who would encounter a difficult issue with their car in India.

I was stuck with a exact same issue of idling issue on a 2002 Mpfi Zen. Decarb did not help at all, so throttle body was opened up and the above bearing was at fault. The shaft seen in a youtube video below was jammed partially, could feel the rough patch when rotated with fingers.

The sensor's insides were also petrol washed and quite a bit of carbon was removed.
Shouldn't happen unless you are an ASS fanboy. My FNG does that every time the TB is cleaned. Although the service manual advises against disassembling the IAC valve, it sure beats buying a new one.
fighterace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th February 2015, 14:58   #428
BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 188
Thanked: 81 Times
Default Re: Zen and the art of maintaining it

Ok, question-time. My cars front end has been wallowing too much, compared to my neighbours Alto, and my 800 with new dampers (shocks). Is the Zen's suspension softer than the Alto's, or is this time for new shocks?
fighterace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th February 2015, 15:29   #429
Distinguished - BHPian
 
saket77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Ranchi
Posts: 3,029
Thanked: 3,523 Times
Default Re: Zen and the art of maintaining it

I think that the Zen's suspension set up is softer than the Alto/ 800. That is why you feel it that way. If you want stiffer suspension, you may go for the Zen D set up, but that will adversely affect the handling and the ride quality. If the query is just for knowing if you need new shocks, then no. I don't think so as it is designed that way.
saket77 is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 25th February 2015, 18:54   #430
Senior - BHPian
 
svsantosh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hosur
Posts: 3,299
Thanked: 1,219 Times
Default Re: Zen and the art of maintaining it

Quote:
Originally Posted by fighterace View Post
Shouldn't happen unless you are an ASS fanboy. My FNG does that every time the TB is cleaned. Although the service manual advises against disassembling the IAC valve, it sure beats buying a new one.
I recently picked up a DL Zen AX (Auto) and I saw the car only after it landed in Bangalore.

So it needed my friends touch who happens to own the largest M.A.S.S in my town.

Things checked, worked upon...

Throttle body
Accelarator cable - cant get
Brake oil
Brake pad/shoe
Spark Plug

Right front shocker
Air filter
Oil filter
Fuel Filter
Vacuum Tubes
Engine Oil
Engine Decarb
svsantosh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th February 2015, 22:23   #431
BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 188
Thanked: 81 Times
Default Re: Zen and the art of maintaining it

Quote:
Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post
I recently picked up a DL Zen AX (Auto) and I saw the car only after it landed in Bangalore.

So it needed my friends touch who happens to own the largest M.A.S.S in my town.

Things checked, worked upon...

Throttle body
Accelarator cable - cant get
Brake oil
Brake pad/shoe
Spark Plug

Right front shocker
Air filter
Oil filter
Fuel Filter
Vacuum Tubes
Engine Oil
Engine Decarb
Congratulations. DL=Delhi? Is it one of the 15 year refugees? Pls pm me the price and other details. Parts shouldn't be an issue. Let me know if you can't find something, will look around in Del. Any particular reason to give the beautiful manual gearbox a miss?
fighterace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th February 2015, 17:35   #432
Senior - BHPian
 
Deeps's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Delhi/Noida
Posts: 1,084
Thanked: 63 Times
Default Re: Zen and the art of maintaining it

Quote:
Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post
I recently picked up a DL Zen AX (Auto) and I saw the car only after it landed in Bangalore.

So it needed my friends touch who happens to own the largest M.A.S.S in my town.

Things checked, worked upon...

Throttle body
Accelarator cable - cant get
Brake oil
Brake pad/shoe
Spark Plug

Right front shocker
Air filter
Oil filter
Fuel Filter
Vacuum Tubes
Engine Oil
Engine Decarb
SO what exactly did you do to the faulty bearing and the shaft? Can they be replaced individually? Is it part of the IAVC assembly or separate?
Deeps is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 26th February 2015, 17:55   #433
Senior - BHPian
 
svsantosh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hosur
Posts: 3,299
Thanked: 1,219 Times
Default Re: Zen and the art of maintaining it

Quote:
Originally Posted by fighterace View Post
Congratulations. DL=Delhi? Is it one of the 15 year refugees? Pls pm me the price and other details. Parts shouldn't be an issue. Let me know if you can't find something, will look around in Del. Any particular reason to give the beautiful manual gearbox a miss?
Thanks. may need some parts in the near future by the looks of it! See my other threads, my M800-AT made way for this Zen AX (wife cant drive a manual)

And Yes - its a Delhi Reject Refugee thanks to the tribunal!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deeps View Post
SO what exactly did you do to the faulty bearing and the shaft? Can they be replaced individually? Is it part of the IAVC assembly or separate?
It got lubricated with WD40 and 20W40, cleaned and put back on. Now some of the issues are gone. PS - didnt even bother to check their prices/availability.

-----------------------

After intensive googling around I think I can articulate my issue and the cause now.

(As of TODAY) Car starts with a high idle for a few seconds and when you engage the Accel Pedal in Neutral mode, it just chokes for 10 Seconds with lot of misses and gurgles.

Once the 10Sec window clears, looks like the engine (or some sensors) have warmed up a bit and then it runs as if nothing ever happened.

Before leaving her to Service station, I was notified by my friend driving behind me that the PETROL SMELL from exhaust was nauseating. TOO RICH.

Google baba and TBhp stories led me to the following possible causes.

1) O2 sensor on Exhuast manifold may be kaput/dirty - sending wrong signals to ECU.

2) TPS and MAF sensor suspect - both were cleaned a few days ago and the SUPER HIGH revving symptom that existed before leaving the car to M.a.s.s has reduced to the noticable 10Second symptom.

3) Some Tbhp thread spoke of TPS sensor getting wrong voltage from ECU (Either of ECU or Sensor/s could be kaput) - I am in no mood to spend on those things. Can live with a slight drop in FE.

4) That thread spoke of Open Loop and Closed Loop - Every MPFI Car starts in open loop for a brief period and the idle settles down the Close Loop mode. Looks like my Zen is missing that KEY step due to sensor/s faluts.

So, give me a few more days, will update here.

Last edited by svsantosh : 26th February 2015 at 17:57.
svsantosh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th February 2015, 21:58   #434
BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 188
Thanked: 81 Times
Default Re: Zen and the art of maintaining it

Quote:
Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post
.
(As of TODAY) Car starts with a high idle for a few seconds and when you engage the Accel Pedal in Neutral mode, it just chokes for 10 Seconds with lot of misses and gurgles.

Once the 10Sec window clears, looks like the engine (or some sensors) have warmed up a bit and then it runs as if nothing ever happened.

Before leaving her to Service station, I was notified by my friend driving behind me that the PETROL SMELL from exhaust was nauseating. TOO RICH.

...
So, give me a few more days, will update here.
Well, I personally don't touch the throttle till the car gets into the fast idle mode- to reduce wear more than anything else. And any computer needs some time to boot up.

A rich mix, apart from resulting in bad efficiency and acceleration, will cause pollution, and reinforce the logic of the Tribunal. Pls get it sorted. Used sensors from scrapped vehicles will smooth-en the cash flow.

Besides, pls post some pics of your bride's new ride.
fighterace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th February 2015, 14:03   #435
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 64
Thanked: 30 Times
Default Re: Zen and the art of maintaining it

Hi svsantosh,
I shall share my experience here, hope it will help you.
I had erratic idle problem, high fuel consumption issues..etc, which got resolved now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post
1) O2 sensor on Exhuast manifold may be kaput/dirty - sending wrong signals to ECU.
you may have to check other things before worrying about O2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post
2) TPS and MAF sensor suspect - both were cleaned a few days ago and the SUPER HIGH revving symptom that existed before leaving the car to M.a.s.s has reduced to the noticable 10Second symptom.
Focus on MAP sensor & vaccum leaks around throttle body.
MAP sensor can be easily tested with a voltmeter.

I have observed significant improvement after changing 3 vaccum hoses & cleaning PVC valve(sits at cylinder head cover)
Its a better idea to change these hoses, you will get it in any automotive shop, costs Rs40.

Quote:
Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post
3) Some Tbhp thread spoke of TPS sensor getting wrong voltage from ECU (Either of ECU or Sensor/s could be kaput) - I am in no mood to spend on those things. Can live with a slight drop in FE.
Incorrect TPS sensor will have erractic idling not a rich fuel mixture
If you have removed TPS sensor, it should be caliberated again.
you will have idling issues without caliberation.

Refer service manual for the right setting.
T1000 is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Buying, Owning, Driving and Maintaining a car in North America vivekiny2k The International Automotive Scene 5794 18th May 2017 22:54
Sunbeam Rapier Series 1 - Advice on Restoring and Maintaining Jehan-Sam Post-War 74 25th November 2015 08:45
Zen and the Art of Buying your First Car the_trooper Test-Drives & Initial Ownership Reports 30 21st March 2013 18:16
Cleaning and Maintaining Head Units souravbasu In-Car Entertainment 43 13th November 2009 23:21


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 17:04.

Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks